Tutorial What you need to know about respiratory protection!

Ah really? I don't meet many people who have to deal with these temperatures for the lengths of time we do. Even winter won't provide much relief.

I do have an out-building that I might be able to use. I may be able to jerry-rig a cooling system that will allow better ventilation whilst not allowing the MSC to dry too quickly. I'll work on that for the next few days. I'm back at work next week.

Thankyou for the reply!

 

Yes, I'm in the hot dry 113F+ area, so I understand. The can will need to be shaken in between sprays often and vigorously as I find the hotter it gets, the more likely the contents are to separate. If the can gets too hot (doubtful if you just came from the AC) you will have to wait and come back. It should be fine though. The issue seems to be more hot with lots of water in the air, then it just runs. You are more likely to get white frosting issues, but with practice on a spare part (a leg, etc, I have a spare head, you can also spray on dark cardboard and test it) you'll be fine.

 

Ohhh, yep, I am in the desert in the middle of Australia...or thereabouts.

We don't get much humidity here. So I might be lucky in that respect. We haven't had decent rain in...nearly a year if not more, so I'm not too worried about that. I might see if I can pick up some spare parts to practice on. Thankyou so much!

 

This thread is super helpful thank you for taking the time to make it

 

Asbestos is also non-toxic, that doesn't mean you want it in your lungs.

It doesn't really matter what you're spraying, you don't want to breath in particles. The chemicals themselves may not be toxic, that doesn't mean that they are not harmless, nor that the particles they form aren't mechanically harmless.

 

Thank you for this tread! It's helpful! But I got some questions if you don't mind. I am sensitive to aerosol, and have an asthmatic allergie, so I use a brush on sealant. (Liquitex matt varnish) I know that is non-toxic, so safe to use it indoors, but I still thinks about get a respirator for modding and pastels. I planned a half mask with FFP3 protection.(I am european) is it unneccecary, or it's not a problem if I use more protection?

 

I would definitely suggest a mask for modding. Resin is toxic and breathing in tiny bits of it could be dangerous. Pastels, on the other hand are standard art medium so unless you have a specific allergic reaction to it, I don't think that process requires a mask, but then we can never be too cautious, can we?

 

Pastel dust is indeed a particulate, but sincethat is not an aerosol, just a dust mask would help protect against that as well. For resin modding, a mask and protective eyewear would be beneficial, if you plan to use a rotary tool in particular.
I have a mask that protects against aerosols, so I just use that for everything, since it protects against dust as well.

 

Okay so I'm in the Uk and finding pre-filters and filters very confusing.
I will be getting a 3M 7500 mask in small
I both sand resin and use a lot of sealant.
Can anyone help me with what I need to go with this mask for protection?
I'm pretty sure the last set I had with this mask was either the 6051 or 6055 filters, but I don't know which and if I need a pre-filter as well then?

 

@pendrithgirl

It depends on what filter model you get. Some of them come with a particulate pre-filter attached, and some don't. (the ones with the pink outer cap are permanently attached)

This is 3M's site, and their available cartridges:
3M Cartridges & Filters | 3M United States

Here is the organic vapor one, with no particulate filter:
3M™ Organic Vapor Cartridge 6001, 60 EA/Case | 3M United States

So if you go with that, you'd want to get these too (and whatever connector you would need to keep them attached) :
3M™ Particulate Filter 5P71/07194(AAD), P95 100 EA/Case | 3M United States

Or alternatively you could get this one, which has the particulate filters attached (which means that you would need to replace the whole thing at once, rather than just swapping out one half or the other when needed) :
3M™ Organic Vapor Cartridge/Filter 60921, P100 60 EA/Case | 3M United States

Each of those product details say they are compatible with the 7500 masks. I don't know what your local stores might have in stock, or be able to order for you, but you should be able to get them on Amazon without much trouble.

 

Thanks for the info, I guess the difficulty I'm having is finding the right equivalent in the UK
The links you have provided are for the US website and while it should be directly transferable information to the UK site, unfortunately it doesn't seem to be. I've emailed 3M directly for their advice but I haven't had a reply yet.
I've tried looking for the N95 or P95 info etc but can't find it in the Uk so I guess that system isn't used over here and I can't figure out what the alternative is. I've tried sticking to product codes but those appear to differ as well, hence my confusion.

it could well be that I'm just being dense but I can't honestly figure this all out.

 

Since I am not in the UK, I cannot say for sure but it looks like they call them A2 over there from 3M. (a website called spraygunsdirect seems to have materials, they also have a live help request, and they may be familiar with what the equivalents are.) However due diligence and all that - you should head to your nearest paint store and ask them what filters they use for respiratory protection on a half face mask, or your local hardware store and whatever is used to filter organic solvents and odors, and then have another particulate filter on top of that.

 

Thanks for the useful tutorial, I'd been wondering about this. I'm doing my first faceup soon and I've heard that the fixer spray is toxic.

 

Well 3M got back to me with quite a surprising bit of information. What do you guys make of this?

I've screenshot my emails to 3M and included them below, along with their replies.
In between the contacting 3M I had to email Games Workshop and ask them for their safety data sheet on Munitorum varnish, which I then forwarded to 3M as a pdf.

Me:


3M:

Me:

3M:

 

:/ That seems a little strange to me... I'm not trained in respiratory stuff, but the person who originally started this thread was literally certified to train other people about this stuff, and confirmed which filters can be used with MSC and other aerosol sealants.

Even Googling "respirator filters for acetone" gives me a bunch of results that show 3M cartridge filters that are meant for organic vapors, as well as other internet guides about things that can filter acetone.
Which 3M Cartidge is Right for My Job?
(none)

I mean, it does seem that MSC specifically is thought of as the most toxic sealant, so yeah, I'd assume that one specifically has higher concentrations. So maybe they are saying that it has an even higher concentration than anyone was actually aware?
But I really find it hard to believe that they are saying literally only compressed air and a completely different additional setup are the only things that are sufficient.
I hate to seem/feel so jaded, particularly when it comes to a health issue, but I always feel a little off when a customer service rep recommends that I buy a bigger, more expensive product. Like maybe they think I have no knowledge about any of it, and are either neglecting to give me all of the info, or even straight-up lying to get me to spend more money.

They do have different terminology for literally everything though, and they are only referring to the item they call a "filter." Maybe ask them specifically about their "organic vapor cartridges" and see what they say? They have one that will filter out ammonia and even hydrogen chloride, (3M™ Multi Acid Gas/Organic Vapor Cartridge 6006, 60 EA/Case | 3M United States) - I don't know how that compares to acetone, but if they can filter out one, why/how is the other different?

If they are genuinely saying that literally nothing they have will actually filter out an aerosol sealant completely, I do suppose it's safer to look for a different sealant in the end though.

 

Thankyou for your input Airimir, honestly you have brought up a few points that I myself am questioning.

I'd like to think that 3M are offering me legit advice and purely giving me the information I need but when a company suggests the only thing that will work is a much more expensive alternative I won't lie, it does make me question their motives. Though I doubt a large company like 3M would be massively impacted by one artist going for a more expensive product I too jumped to the same wonderings that you have.

I have replied to their email and enquired more specifically about organic vapour cartridges as that is what I was using before. I honestly can't see how their cartridges filter out such nasty toxins and gasses and yet acetone is a big problem? It doesn't seem to add up to me that they can filter out hydrogen chloride but not acetone, and if acetone is that much of a risk what about thousands of people worldwide that use it on nails etc.

I will update the thread with their response but in truth I am not entirely comfortable with their answer thus far.

 

So I just had a very thorough read of the data sheet for Games Workshop Citadel Munitorum Varnish (if i can find a way to share the pdf I will), but it states in the protective equipment section for respiratory equipment, filter apparatus, type AX (EN371) is needed.
Almost everywhere I look states these type of filters are for full mask masks and one time use only.
3M filter 6098 (AXP3 as you need the P3 protection too)
From what I can gather its these ones because acetone has a boiling point below 65 deg C, so it seems acetone is indeed the deciding factor in the filters. They do fit the 7500 half face mask too though.

I'm just very confused to be honest.
I think I might just start asking a load of protective equipment providers and workplaces what they use
I feel dizzy with all of this info in my head

 

Honestly the worst part of it all is, the aerosol selant makers don't just tell you what you need with some handy dandy shopping links.....

I suppose the full face mask is recomended because the sealant can get into your eyes?

 

Well, here we go. I think I’m just going to go with a half mask or organic vapour cartridges and p3 prefilter. BUT it seems the ideal level of protection is indeed supplied air. I’m surprised I have to say. I believe this is only for extreme amounts in your surroundings and that organic vapour cartridges work for smaller amounts, but I could be wrong.



I am going to conduct trials with army painter, as it does not contain acetone. Its got to be worth a shot!

If I can upload the pdf files I have somewhere is it worth me linking them here for everyone? I currently have Munitorum and Army Painter safety data sheets. I might contact Vallejo and a few others to get their info also.

 

The All About Sealants thread would be a good place for MSDS.
/threads/all-about-sealants.605416/

I do think there are some in there now for various items. (I'm not sure which ones have them there)

If acetone specifically literally cannot be absorbed by any filters, that makes a little more sense to me I suppose. But I guess I don't know how the volatility of a chemical relates to its ability to be absorbed...or say, how it relates to fumes from liquid acetone vs aerosolized acetone.

Also I have no idea about my ZM spray now (of which I have an entire case....)

 

Very interesting. So I guess a fresh air system/fume hood is really ideal?
Acetone seems to be 'tolerated' by many people in some levels in the air. Not that I am in ANY way recommending it in an enclosed space ever, but people use it for nail products, often.
I would be curious about what 3M says about ppm for the acetone. I've been in nail parlours where I have had little doubt that it probably it exceeds the recommended ppm in the air in there as well. Very interesting. I think Volks would have to be asked directly about any potential acetone content in the sprays.

 

That was my first thought, that acetone is the backbone of the nail industry. @Misuka - I've been in shops two doors down from nail salons and you could still smell the fumes! Seems far more dangerous from a heavy fume load than from a directed spray.

I have to peruse this thread in depth - need to get a respirator for both doll use and to do some repairs in an attic that has been a starling nest for some time. Although for the latter use, they do recommend a full face mask!

Quick question though - how do you judge what size you need in a mask, full or half face? Do you have to measure your face or are there ranges to note?

 

@hobbywhelmed The full face mask has like, an eye cover, the half masks do not. So if you want to cover your eyes the full mask would be better.

I think they come in varying sizes, but most of the big box stores (Lowes, Home Depot, etc) tend to have a midrange size of the half masks in stock.

 

I lent my mask to a friend (which I now know it's bad and won't do again) awhile ago and when she wasn't using there was a mishap and the thing got covered in MSC

I've gotten it back and washed it off but I'm really uncomfortable with the thought of using it, I already have asthma that was aggressive most of my life so I'm extremely wary about breathing stuff already

Can I sanitize my mask and replace all my filters or should I pitch the whole thing and get a new one? I almost pitched it already but if I can spend less I want to

It's a silicone half mask, the filters were shot so I know I have to replace all of them already but I'm mainly concerned about the mask itself

 

@Death of a bachelor I think that, if you give it a good wash with soap and water, it would be OK.
But you may want to check out your mask brand's website to see what they have to say about mask maintenance - they will tell you what (if anything) you should do or avoid.

 

@AirimirOfGondor

Thank you! I already know I horribly maintained it already, I got it several years ago and didn't even know when to change the filter (I got it for a different use) so I may have to toss it just based on no maintenance breakdown

Edit: I contacted the company and they said it wasn't recommended I salvage it and just get a new one :/ luckily though it's a very inexpensive model and I won't have any trouble replacing it!

 

Thank you for sharing this! I'm wanting to try doing faceups and I never thought that I would need more than a basic surgical mask!

 

Honestly, I would have expected the friend to replace it for you.....

 

If you pull up an SDS (new name) or MSDS (old name) Material Safety Data Sheet file acetone toy will find or is listed as a "select carcinogen. It will fry your brain if you inhale enough.

See me. I can give you all the information you need. You have to try them on. I can bring mine up to the met and show you how to check size and fit. Also the test you should do each time you don the mask. 1/2 vs full face is mostly preference. If you are working in a lot of dust or maybe dead animals then opt for the full face.

Sorry I came into the middle of this conversation. What brand do you have? Is it still very soft like when toy purchased it? Does it still seal holes on your face. I find the elastic strap is the play that gives out first. Toy souls NEVER share masks. It is more good for hygene.

This note is for everybody you should take apart your mask and soak for several hours in a disinfectant soap. Then rinse it in Luke warm clean water.hang it up to completely dry. You can wipe it out with an alcohol wipe and allow it to dry. Place it into a ziploc bag or plastic bag a that can be closed via sealing or twist tie. Mark the bag with the date so toy know when it was cleaned. If you do not use it every day you should inspect once a month and clean with an alcohol wipe. And place in a new clean bag. I would suggest throwing orut the filters after a day use. They are cheap insurance for your health. Also store the mask in a dark place.

 

This is a pretty old reply but I actually just saw this now when I came back for more information, it was a safety works brand my dad got for me a long time ago to filter dust when I was cleaning computers. Everything was still soft but it was covered in the msc for a few months. I can't remember what kind it was but I don't think it was actually any good for the vapors just dust, (it actually ended up never being used the MSC accident was independent of during actual use)

I'm planning to get one of the ones recommended in the OP post, I've already long since tossed my original respirator so there's not much reason to dwell on it any longer.

Thank you for the tips about how to store it that's been one of my major concerns about getting one and for cleaning as well I never thought much about how to clean it

I haven't done any spraying since but I'm hoping to finally have time and money to get one soon

 

I reread the whole post a couple times trying to find the info needed but didn't see anything. Are there any for both sanding and spraying? Or do I have to get two different masks? I might of missed a bit of information. I'm trying to cover all the basis's to be safest while preparing for a large project thats being started (all the parts are coming) here soon. Any help on this would be great!

 

@Pooki

You can get one for both.

Basically, you'll want to look for a half-face respirator mask that has organic vapor cartridges, that also has N95 prefilters (either available as an add-on, or built in to the vapor cartridges).

 

Thank you. I just bought a respirator with the filters, but I didn't know there were different levels of effectiveness, and I especially didn't know that only some were oil proof. I will have to check the rating before I open it.

 

You can use the same respirator. While sanding you will need a particulate filter (P100). These are cheap to purchase and are fantastic for particulates. While spraying you will need a chemical filter to match the chemicals you are spraying. Get a chemical filter that you can snap a P100 into it. This will protect the chemical filter. Which is more expensive. When breathing gets a little difficult change the P100. If you smell the chemical change the chemical filter too. You can get the "all in one" filter as well. However the P100 filter will plug due to spraying. If anybody needs assistance selecting the proper chemical cartridge I will be happy to assist.

 

Finally got my hands on a half-mask silicone respirator, and all my faceup materials...

Then I realized I have to shave to use the dang mask. Welp.

 

Is this any good?
GVS SPR451 Elipse P100 Dust and Half Mask Respirator with Replaceable and Reusable Filter

 

That looks like a nice one. Make sure you get the correct size. And you can complete a fit test every time you don the mask. You should be able to put your hands over the filters and suck in slightly. This will suck the mask to your face. And hold for a few seconds. If no leaks then place you hand over the exit valve and blow out a small puff (NOT hard) of air. ONLY enough to push the mask out a little bit, and NOT enough to break the seal. And hold for a few seconds. If it is leak FREE you are good. If not readjust and try this leak test again. This will ensure that you have a good seal and ready to go. P100 is only a dust/particle filter. You will also need a vapor filter for the chemicals you are going to work with.

Some of the people I worked with in the past ONLY shaved in the area that the mask sealed against their face. The line that the mask sits on can be as narrow as ~1/2". You have to be careful to get ALL the hair out from behind the mask as you don it. then complete the leak test that I mentioned in my previous post. You should be good.

 

Where can I buy the vapor filter? Online too? I’m thinking of using the mask for creating a bjd? Would I need the vapor filter or is the one that I suggested okay?

 

I would go onto the manufactures web site and find which filter matches the chemicals you will be using. Then you can go and buy all the parts needed from the same vendor.

GVS SPR451 Elipse
P100 Dust filter
vapor filter to match the chemicals you will be using

Vapor/chemical filter will cover a family of chemicals.

Hope this helps.

Looking closer at the (GVS SPR451 Elipse P100 Dust and Half Mask Respirator). It appears to ONLY be good for dust and metal work. NOT chemical vapors.

These are the respirators I use.
Honeywell Small 7700 Series Half Face Silicone Air Purifying Respirator
Honeywell Small 7600 Series Full Face Silicone Air Purifying Respirator

This one I use with a SCBA tank
3M™ Scott™ Small AV-2000 Series Full Face Air Purifying Respirator With Kevlar® Headnet

This one I use with air line
Panorama Nova® Full Face Mask

3M also makes a good mask. I used them years ago.

These all have cartridges for chemicals and a dust pre filter as well.

 

I was considering that, instead of going full babyface. Honestly, when I tested it earlier (haven't shaved yet... I just wanted to see how it fit mostly) my main leak point is under the chin, where my beard is a little thicker. But we just got a massive rainstorm today, so it may be a couple of days before it's even dry enough to spray anyway, so I have some time to consider. May just go down to a goatee. Idk.

It grows back, idk why I'm stressing lol. I just... haven't shaved my beard for years.

 

Thank you so much, this information is very helpful, I’ll do some research from your suggestions. I really appreciate the information, and I’ll check which one suits my specific needs

 

My pleasure. I'm glad I could help in keeping everybody safe.

 

Sorry if this been addressed before.

Is something wrong with my mask? Not sure if it's the mask or the fitting? I have a 3M 6001 half face mask from Home Depot. The filter is P95. I thought I bought the right one but I still smell the Volks UV Matt spray. I tested the mask out before I used the spray by spraying perfume in my bathroom to make sure i smell nothing/no leaks. But the first layer I smell it (sprayed outside). So for the 2nd and 3rd time, I try to readjust the mask and even change the filter to a new one and I still smell it. In the 3rd try, I didn't smell it at first until I went down to pick up the head.

 

These are very good respirators.

First of I would like to say look above at some of my recent posts. There are a couple thinks at play here. Toy test with perfume is invalid. Since this filter is a P95 Organic Vapor filter, which is good for oil based paints and coating materials and thinning solvents it would be a better test to use "nail polish " since that is mostly Acetone which is a paint thinner.

Secondly you said you bent over to pick something up. And the mask was fine until that point. If you feel the mask move or you sweat a lot you will need to do a fit test more often. I would do a fit test several times an hour. (Se my post above for the fit test), it only takes a few seconds and is a good insurance policy to save you're life.

Thirdly I would suggest you get a dust filter with the plastic cover to put over the P95. This will protect and help the P95 to last all day or more. I would suggest for safety to change the filters at least once a day or when you smell the material you are spraying. The plastic cover that holds the dust filter can be reused forever since it is on the outside of the P95.

Fourthly there are fit test videos which only take about 5 to 15 minutes to complete.

Lastly if you are using the mask a lot, disassemble it and use a mild detergent scrubbing it with your hands and get the soap into every fold about once a week. Less often if use is lite, however NOT more than a monthly. Then hang it on a cloths hanger to dry overnight. And use a disinfectant hand wipe to clean it germ free. And store it in its natural position out of the light.

 

Thank you! I'll retry refitting again and use acetone as the tester next time.

 

The reason I mentioned acetone is the finger nail polish remover is mostly acetone. So you do not need to buy acetone special since I'm sure you would have the polish remover on hand.

 

Thank you so much for all this information @Tekenduis !

If sanding printed parts in ABS, under water (I have a big bowl full of water, and put the piece I'm sanding, my gloved hands, and the sanding paper completely under the water), is a respirator necessery? Or is it ok because no dust particules should be floating in the air with this method?

 

I was looking through the reccomendations and all of them require a £20-40 pound shippig fee to the uk. Screw fix sells one, would it be ok?

Link: 3M 7523 Half Mask Respirator & Filter Kit Medium A2-P3

 

You can do what they call "wet sanding". Sprinkle water onto the piece you want to sand. This holds the dust down fine. You can put a little dish soap into the water. This acts like a surfactant and holds the dust. Make sure your get the sand paper called "wet/dry" sandpaper. You could do as you mentioned.

 

Thanks !!

 

This mask looks fine. It even includes the particulate filter that goes over top of the chemical filter. nice choice. 3M has good quality stuff.

 

Purchased! Thank you very much for the help. My lungs will thank you!

 

Not sure if this has been asked or not, but had a question about protecting those around you. I recently moved to an apartment complex with several neighbors, no ventilated rooms where I would feel safe in if I sprayed in there, and all the open grassy areas are frequented by kids and dogs. this is the first time I wouldn't have about an acre of woods to be able to hide out in with my mask and dolls. I do have a garage, but its in between two others with extremely thin walls and both families have babies.

I tried looking around online, but only found out how to protect my lungs and not really about work environments. (I might not be using good terminology to search with)

I did find a tutorial for a box spaying booth, but it looks like its not airtight. They emphasize continuing with a mask so assuming its more for temperature control rather than breathing.

Edit: also to point out, I'm okay with using other sealant methods if anyone knows good ones that are non toxic since I think I might have the same problems with airbrushing as I would with msc? (honestly no idea, I just now realized it might be an option but no idea how it would work with the blushing?)

Edit again xD: I did some research on non toxic sealants and found a liquid one I've been testing out today and so far so good. Still curious about how to protect others from fumes if anyone knows any good ways

 

Have extra particulate filters and change them first when breathing gets a little difficult. This means the outer filter is being clogged by the coating material that you are spraying. It dose not mean the chemical filter is bad. You can tell when thre chemical filler is bad when you begin to smell the coating material you are spreading.

Glad I could help.

First note. A hood / ventilation hood is for removing the toxic type gases from where you are standing/sitting.

Now you can use something as simple as a cardboard box if you want. And place a fan on the back side facing away from you this will suck the odor away from you and direct it wherever the fan is pointing. If you put the fan in a window facing out, them place a box with a hole the size of or smaller them the fan against the fan. Then the side towards you can by up to full size of the face of the box. You can use the flaps of the box to open or close down the opening. The smaller the front opening the higher the flow into the box will be. With this method you can use a window in you living room or wherever you want. Find a window the points in a safe direction.

Hope this gives you some ideas. Good luck on whatever toy decide.

 

Thanks!

 

This is quite amusing considering the current climate. Seriously though, thank you for the time you've taken to inform everyone. I have been using sealant without protection thinking "it'll be alright". I have rethought my attitude and will purchase the correct equipment to protect myself before using it again. It simply isn't worth the risk.

 

@scorpion

Thank you for all your support here! I’m in the UK and I’m struggling to find what is considered safe for aerosols. The equivalent seems to be P3, so do you have an recommendations for EU buyers?

Obviously given the current climate PPE is hard to come by right now.

Edit: found the correct sort of mask here thanks to a previous post
3M - 6000 Reusable Low Maintenance Series Half Mask - Conforms to EN140 - Size Small - [3M-6100]

 

I can't stress enough how important this is. I wish I had found this thread before I got my first can of MSC, because I would have immediately decided to ditch it and use liquitex instead.

I've always worked while using a respirator with the right filters and thought I did enough research before starting this hobby. I have gotten a total of 3 whiffs of MSC over the span of a year, never a lung-full. One was from wearing an old respirator. The second time was when the fabric protecting a doll's hair wasn't fully dry and it was giving off fumes. The third time was last week. I always wear my mask, spray outside, and run, and still hold my breath regardless to be safe. Somehow, I still managed to smell a tiny bit. I felt slightly light headed, but no coughing. Later that night I had a bad reaction to the doll face I was working on, even though it had been dry for several hours. Since then I've had shallow breathing, lost the ability to yawn fully, and traveling pressure in my chest. Doctors haven't been able to find any abnormalities so far.

I don't know where I went wrong, especially considering I rarely use MSC to begin with. I suspect maybe my filters weren't properly maintained. I am trying to tell myself that these small exposures aren't enough to cause lasting damage, but I am fearing for the worst.

After reading all this, I do not understand how people can spray indoors without protection, especially if they do the hobby much more than me. I am fearing that my life is permanently altered, even if I did think I was being safe. I'm hoping it will something that will pass with more time but I just don't know.

 

Excellent information, thank you :-)

 

The important thing is to ALWAYS read the MSDS [Material Safety Data Sheet] (SDS new name) [Safety Data Sheet]. This will give you the information you need to make an informed decision.