Major Problem with Demon Garden

you know what? they have made a lot of these dolls, i assume, and you would think that they would know that the opening in the head is too big, with no support to keep the neck from poking up inside. i can't believe that they are not aware that the design is flawed, unless this "one" head was flawed, but i doubt that.

 

How awful! PayPal can only help if the company has money in their account. In the two instances I have had a problem with never receiving items, the sellers had empty PayPal accounts and PayPal couldn't do anything. You may be much better off going to your credit card company or bank.

I had considered getting one of their bodies but I sure won't now! There is no way I'd fork over the significant cost of a doll to a company with that attitude and poor practices. I don't care if they did think you damaged the doll (Which would be a ridiculous thing to think in this case.) they would have done themselves a favor to have just sent you a new head and keep their professional integrity intact.

I hope it works out for you.

 

You need to go and print out every post in this thread and keep it in your records, in case they do something to you or you need to go to paypal or the police. And if I was you, I would go ahead and do it, because anyone with half a brain can look at the evidence and see this is dumb and you have every right to get a new doll. Why would someone buy something so expensive, break it, only to get their money sent back to them? This is just all so....idiotic. Also you didn't do anything wrong by posting here on the forum. You never said anything bad just asked about what you should do in a given situation. That's what the forum is here for. Any bad opinion that is formulated by this transaction and what is posted here on the thread is made by what the company themself has said. After reading those emails I can't believe they'd treat you in such a way as to say you were "slandering" them and were not trying to work with them. I've been following this thread the whole time but I really felt the need to say something because this is just insane. I'm so sorry this has happened to you. The first doll I got I had problems with too but nothing like this. I really really hope things work out for you.

 

Well, the first couple e-mails were not bad.

They asked for pictures: they wanted know if the shipping box was damaged, because it is impossible for the head to go that far into the neck without assistant from a person; they stated that if the head cannot be removed then please return the entire doll; so the technician can inspect in China. If in fact the doll has defect thus the head is stuck on the neck, they will replace the doll without charge. However, if the technician determines that the damages (or the wear and tear) is caused by the user, then the doll will not be replaced.

*** Please note that in the letter, they did use the word "Grinding" but this is just a Chinese way of saying "wear and tear" or "damage".

Second letter:

Return instructions: Please return everything in the original box with returned marked on the box etc. They will give her an answer within 10 days upon arrival of their decision (aka determination whether the doll was damaged by user or doll has defect) If the doll has defect, they will issue paypal refund. If not they will ship the doll back as it is at the user's expense.
** Once again, this is standard letter (by my opinion)

Starting at the third letter that is when DOA was mentioned.

They said that they had already proposed to resolve this issue with her. However, strawberrysodaz did not reply, when she said she wanted a resolution. Instead she posted on DOA and tell others about DG (making bad dolls). They said that this is jumping to conclusion since the two parties have not yet reach a final conclusion. They said that they did say that the doll will be replaced if needed. But strawberrysodaz was posting prior to the two parties reaching an agreement and a resolution. This was giving their company negative publicity. Damaging their reputation.

Forth Letter (and fifth letter) are almost the same: Since the later letters are more in depth, so I will try my best to translate them as much "word for word" as possible but also in the way that make sense in English.

"I hope you understand that you are trying to resolve this issue with us not DOA. We have never passively deal with your problem. We had given you our words that we will take care of this problem with you in a suitable fashion. But we need to confirm if the problem has to do with the quality of this doll. You are not cooperating with us. You said you cannot remove the head, thus we asked you to send back the doll, but you have not replied to us about that. DOA is a fair forum, but your posting about our replies to you is incomplete. It gives people on the forum a false sense that we are not actively working with you to resolve this issue or we did not want to provide you with refund. This is not true.
You are the one who would not cooperate. We hope you will state more clearly on DOA so others know that we are trying to resolve this issue with you.
If you did not do the damage, then there is nothing for you to worry about. Please send the doll back. We have highly trained technician who can check your doll and give you a fair answer (about the source of the problem)
If the damage is not cause by you, then we will replace the doll - as stated many times before.

Please post on DOA that the lack of actions on your side had let to a delay in the resolution of this matter. We have been working with you on this issue- you are not giving us a chance to provide a conclusion to this issue - thus the problem has yet to be resolved.
We had stated many times that if this were our problem, we will provide you with a satisfactory answer.

Thank you"

OK this letter was a little on the "tough" side, but still standard Chinese Letter. I personally would be unhappy but not be so mad if I got this.

 

I'm so sorry to hear of your unpleasant experience. I would definitely file with paypal and if you used a credit card, file with them as well. It usually takes up to a month for the process to go through. Let the doll DG know you are filing with paypal and your credit card company. They will be the ones loosing money once you get your refund plus, you will still have their doll. Good luck

 

I had considered buying the DG body, but I will never deal with this company after seeing their responses.

 

I've also refrained from posting until now but... Why on EARTH would you cause such a fuss when the problem is as easy as replacing a head!? Customer service people. I can understand some element of suspicion, but when you start demanding apologies from your clients? Seriously?

This is horrific. I was happy to have finally found a cheap body with a DOD skin match but I guess I'll just keep looking.
~Ari

 

wow, I can't believe a company is treating a customer like this. o_o;; (and blaming you for just sharing your experience here) I was planning on getting a body from them, but I'm glad I read this before I did-- (I won't now D: )
I hope everything works out for you--

 

Sixth letter:

"Hello. Please immediately cease posting on DOA opinion/discussion about our brand (of dolls). Until this mater has a resolution, it is unfair to say that we had lied/cheated you. If you do not stop, you have already caused reputation damages to our dolls - the accusation that we are liars. Escalation of such is not helping the two parties to resolve this problem.

There is a saying in Chinese that the bare footed one is not afraid of the ones with the shoes

If you do not clarify this on DOA, and let others on the forum think that we are liars then we may not provide you with a resolution. Because if you accused us of being a liar or cheater then we will be forced to act as such.
We are very angry.
If you want to resolve this issue, you should contact us and not DOA. We are the seller, DOA is not the seller.

Seven Letter

"Under normal circumstances, this kind of things does not occur. We have done many tests on our end. During our entire business history, this is the second time we have encountered such incident. First time, the customer had sanded the doll and tried to fit the head onto a body from another company. At the end, this buyer blamed DG for the damage Thus we must check before giving you our final answer. We always have great reputation. Damages to dolls happen very rarely. In the past, we had taken care a few cases involving damages occurred during transit as well, such as broken fingers. We always replaced the hands/parts to the customer. Please rest assured that we have had good reputation

We have be actively cooperating with you to resolve this problem- but you are not cooperating. We do not understand why. We always take Customer Services as first priority. Since the start of our business, you are the first person who has caused a negative PR on our dolls. We hope you can help us to clarify the bad image which has been associated with us now. We will resolve this problem in a fair matter. You will see. We have good reputation.

But you keep on attacking our brand; you are the one causing the negative impact on our company, we hope you can restore our reputation.

Instead of DOA, please contact us about what you have in mind, how you want this is be resolved. People on DOA do not know the whole issue thus misunderstood our customer services.

thank you

We hope you understand and cooperate with use. We will give you a satisfactory answer.

Please help us restore our reputation

 

Starting a chargeback is a good idea and also, I suggest calling paypal, don't just fill out the form online. You have to wait thru hold music and such, but the real person should be very helpful. That's what I did over a year ago when I had huge problems with an order from a different Chinese company. The real person helped me figure out exactly what I needed to do to get my money back. Good luck and I'm so sorry this happened. Not all companies are so bad with customer service.

 

I really don't think those responses are terribly rude... I don't like that they want you to send them your doll, but it seems like it may have been blown out of proportion on both ends.

 

Rude or not, I don't want to deal with a company who threatens not to resolve a problem I'm having with them because I have the temerity to post about that problem in public. Threatening not to resolve the issue unless she stops talking about them on DOA is totally unacceptable, IMO.

 

I agree, the translations anavel has provided dont seem as horrible as previously stated. the part there they are "forced" to act like liars and cheaters because they are 'accused' as such, along with the threat to not resolve the issue if posting continues would upset me quite a bit, but it seem that they are still willing to come to some compromise on the issue. it seems like the sudden uprise of any doa-ers has certainly taken an effect on them (lol yay people of doa, we certainly do stick together!)

btw, thank you anavel! you never cease to amaze

 

Eight Letter:

"I forgot to mention why can you not generate 10MPixel image from your camera.

This is the "evidents" we have gathered:
1. EMS Tracking shows that the package was received in Australia time 10:07AM. When we got the first letter from you it was Bejin Time 3:32PM. Since there is a 2 hours difference between the two countries, it means that the doll was in your possession for over 7 hours. We cannot say for sure what happened within the 7 hours.

2. All the pictures were not clear. Under normal circumstances, I believe the picture quality of photos taken with Noka N81 camera phone and Sony V1 camera phone should not of such a poor resolution. The clarity of picture was not what we desired. In addition, we had requested a picture of the neck joint and the base (of the head). But we did not get that from you. From that other picture we cannot see the crack by the eye. We cannot see the validity of your claim from these photos.

3. "Head is stuck cannot moved" - this is not possible. This is an excuse for trying to cover up human-made damages. Our test in our facility showed hat the neck is straight- the top is narrow and the lower part of the neck is wide - if you push the head it should be able to come out. This is physics. In order for the head to be permanently fixed on that spot, it has to be either glued on or jammed in by a person.

4. The S hook is not on the neck anymore, the elastic has also been removed. Thus this doll has been unstrung I guess in the sense that this doll has been tempered with

Based on the above information, our technician has determined that the problem was not caused by the quality of the doll. This we will not accept any return nor offer any refund. Please stop publicizing negative PR about our doll/brand. If you insist on attacking DG on DOA, you will need to take responsibility for your actions. We have informed MOD already- they are not idiots.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Personally besides the last letter - which I think it is ridiculous how they determine the "evident" against her; the other letters are (although not nice by US Standards) often the kind of letters I get from China - doing business here with them

Due to the culture differences, Chinese letters (even business letters) tend to word things differently. I know Chinese well, so I understand what they are trying to say. But some of the direct translation may not be 100% "nice" by oversea standards.

However I do agree that the last letter is more of a joke. If in fact they do want to resolve this, they would not come to such a funny conclusion so quickly.

But I do still recommend strawberrysodaz to borrow a better camera (not a camera cel phone) take good pictures in sufficient light of the in and out of the doll and the head. Whether you will get a new doll from DG or your claim, you will need to provide good pictures to the companies (DG, Paypal etc) to back up your case.

 

Thanks for the translation, anavel.

I am still very uncomfortable with their response, particularly the idea that she should stop posting on DoA because they've always had such a great reputation and now she's ruining it. Frankly, this company hasn't been around long enough to have much of a reputation in my eyes and on top of that, they are the ones ruining whatever reputation they have by giving a buyer a hassle rather than fixing the problem.

It would be one thing if the buyer came on DoA and acted all crazy-hysterical-irrational about a purchase, but when that happens, usually other members will react to that by saying it's not so bad. This appears to be more a case of someone who is new to the hobby and doesn't understand the process. Where else is she supposed to turn for help? There isn't anywhere else.

A company that tells its customers to "shut up unless it's good news only" is still not reputable in my book. You want to fix your reputation? Fix the customer's problem and no more hassle!

 

that last letter is what bothers me.

she had the Doll few hours..

how much time is acceptable for you DG??

she should have days to contact you. not everyone has time to drop everything and solve an issue as soon as they discover it

 

Hmm... the first few letters aren't too bad, although I think they were a little rude and immature. They do seem a little stern, but it also seems like Demon Garden was trying to resolve the issue.

The final letter, however, is unacceptable. It looks like DG saw what we posted here, got angry, and blamed Strawberry for our responses, which is just a horrible thing to do!

Not only did they take their anger out on Strawberry... but they seemed to jump to conclusions and accuse her.
Okay, so a previous customer sanded the doll, and when the attempt failed, accused DG of sending out a poorly-manufactured product. However, Strawberry is not that customer, and DG shouldn't suspect the poor dear of modifying her doll. They've no reason to accuse Strawberry, and they should have believed her when she first said: "My doll's head is cracked and jammed onto the neck".

What strikes me the most, however, is that they did not address the issue of the crack until the last, and rather insulting, letter. It's very hard to crack a doll like that, and the damage probably occurred during shipping. Thus, it's DG's responsibility to solve the problem by reissuing Strawberry a new head.

Also! (Oh, I'm not done yet, now that I have read through all of these translations. Thank you Anavel for doing them!)
No matter how upset DG was, they should not have brought DoA up. By mentioning that, DG is trespassing into Strawberry's private life and what she does in her free time. They should have been more professional and left DoA out of this transaction. They just sound like stalkers, following poor Strawberry around and reading what she writes.

And what was the whole seven hours thing about? Most companies give us 7 days to report damage. Anything can happen during 7 days, but you don't see other companies accusing their customers of damaging their dolls. Yet, Demon Garden suspects Strawberry of modifying her doll after only seven hours. True, it is a very strange and unusual sort of damage, but they still should help her, not suspect her!!!


Now... Onto a lighter note ^_^
Please don't give up hope, Strawberry! You have a perfectly good body, and the head can be fixed--if DG does not replace it for you.
The crack can be filled in with some epoxy, and you can paint over the epoxy so it matches the resin ("color matching"). True, you might have to temporarily remove the eyelash, and you might loose part of the face up... But you can always re-glue the eyelash later and redo the faceup--and you won't have a crack after wards!
You can also mod the neck hole in the head smaller with some epoxy, so it will sit perfectly on the neck. ^_^

You can also commission someone here on DoA to do the mods for you instead. We have a lot of wonderfully talented (and friendly) people here on DoA who would love to fix your doll.

So don't give up hope! Yes, the damages may seem heartbreaking, especially for a first doll... but they can be fixed! All's not lost! -hugs-

 

wow... okay the last one just breaks it for me! even if chinese standards are different from those of the us we are the customers they are catering to, and as far as im concerned bieng polite for a customer is not asking too much. and as far as the mods are concerned, there hasnt been any 'slandering' of the dg name as far as ive seen! its just been asking advice and people responding, which is exactly what the forum is for. i also dont see why they dont understand that the head is just jammed on and thus wont move? it doenst take a technician to see that... flat out refusing to solve the problem on these basis are just unacceptable, they certainly wont be getting any buisness from me.

 

Yes I will have to retract my statement. Blah this is a terrible situation. I understand why both parties are upset, but I will always side with a customer over a company. They have the obligation to act professionally and deal with a situation without damaging their image which DG has definitely done. They need to just send you a new head, apologize and be done with it.

 

Well, they did not ignore the crack. They claimed that since they cannot see it well in the pictures, the crack does not exist.

So the bottom line I think strawberrysodaz really needs better pictures. Take one against the light too so you can show the crack.

I agree with bunnydot, they have not even been around that long to make such a claim about their reputation.

 

but even for a company just starting out, they wont take such a bad hit finanically to just return the whole doll (since if they just returned the head she still wouldnt be able to pry the old one off!) rather than bieng rude about it. to be honest had they dealt with it initially she probably would have posted about thier great customer service in such a trying situation. this instance alone has probably lost them thousands unless they can come up with a quick way to win everyone back

 

oh, and correct me if im wrong, but in the last email didnt they just difinitively say that they wont be refunding or replacing the doll? if so why still go through the problem of sending them more pictures? id turn my focus to the credit card companies and paypal, send them the letters, and get my money back from them

 

Well, part of their reasoning against a refund was that from the evidence they had, they determined the damage was not their fault. But if better pictures can be produced to show all the damage clearly and comprehensively... maybe they will come to a different conclusion?

In any case, having clear documentation of the dolls damage will be helpful for any claims.

[edit] Beat. This thread moves fast

 

Yes they did. But she will need the pictures for Paypal to back up her claims. Paypal is not going to get money back for her that easily if she does not have good solid evident.

Paypal is not a bank, nor does Paypal have DG money. Paypal is a wiring company- they take your money from your bank (or CC) and deposit the fund in someone's account. They collect their fee during the transit - this is when Paypal actually have the money in their possession. Once that is done the money is in DG account. If DG has not withdraw this fund, then Paypal can reverse this much more easily once the claim is established. But if DG has withdrawn that money, then until DG return that money, Paypal has nothing to return to strawberrysodaz.

After she claims, Paypal will go to the seller and get their statement, too. Thus this will become a he-said/she said scenario. Thus the more evident strawberrysodaz has, the stronger her case may become

 

good point, but i think it would be better go show the original pictures sent to the credit card companies and paypal, then show clearer ones to prove the damage to them (though i believe that the pictures provided in the thread previously certainly get the point across, as they "convinced" everyone here in this thread of the issue at hand) as far as dg is concerned, they are going to extreme lengths to get out of the situation and to be honest i dont think new pics would change thier minds any

 

Well, the original set of pictures at the beginning of the thread were not very clear at all. I could not see the crack. The focus on the camera was on the carpet behind the head and not on the doll.

Personally, I would only submit a set of clear pictures to whomever I am going to file the claim. Because these companies are busy, they do not need to know all the details of what had taken place (nor do they care) they just need to see the best evident you have for your case and go take it up with the seller.

 

I suppose you are right, anavel ive never dealt with angry companies before, id just try to make the best argument and go as in depth as i could

 

This, and the so called 'evidence' they have provided is ridiculous in my opinion.

Regardless of how rude they've been, this is what would make me not buy from them. They are judgmental and uncooperative, and I really hope they are reading this.

If they're smart, they'd cooperate with you, and either refund you or give you a new doll before you mess up their paypal account with a claim.

I would certainly use their 'evidence' against them in your claim as an example of how unreasonable they are being, and make sure you provide paypal or your credit card company with a picture of what the doll is supposed to look like, as well as clear photos of what it does look like.

 

Do not file a PayPal Claim and Chargeback at the same time.

You can do one OR the other. You can file a PayPal Claim OR you can file a Chargeback. If you do both, PayPal will automatically find in favor of the seller no matter what evidence you have. Sometimes they will even cancel your PayPal account for this behavior. However, you can do one and THEN the other -- i.e., you can file a PayPal Claim, and if it's denied, THEN you can file a Chargeback. But you can't do them at the same time.

If you were in the US, I'd suggest going straight to your credit card company. We have very strong protections and most customers win their chargeback disputes. However, I know nothing about Australian chargebacks... You should probably talk to your parents about the banking system and how it works.

 

I would just like to point out that demongarden's representative on DoA has already been banned for reasons not related to this transaction; an announcement was made to that effect here.

The Moderators have received communications from Demon Garden via a third party in regards to this thread. We are not intending to get involved in this transaction, the messages from DG that have been posted here speak for themselves, each member will decide with their own wallet whether they want to trade with a company that handles issues in this manner.

It is perhaps the case that language barriers have not helped a resolution in this case, and I continue to find it baffling that a dealer of DG products (HappyHouse) was able to handle a similar problem without any difficulty; surely they all get the product from the same source.

 

This is what bothers me as well. The first few letters really weren't bad, but as soon as they started getting upset that she posted about her experience on DoA that made it very hard for me to take them at all seriously--especially since the original post wasn't at all negative towards the company. Of course people are going to share bad experiences and ask for help on DoA--that's what people do on community message boards. I'm not sure what on earth DG would expect. The way the hobby and community is, if there is an issue with a company it will be posted.

 

Popping in to ask if Strawberry is aware of the 45-day limit on Paypal disputes. That's 45 days from the date of payment, so if a PP dispute is going to be filed, it's got to be done *soon*. Otherwise, a credit card chargeback is the only option.

This is really a horrible situation and I hope it's resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

 

I hope that they do right by you, strawberrysodaz, and I am truly sorry that your first BJD experience was marred by their treatment of your situation. I truly hope that they resolve this problem in a more proactive, professional, and kind manner than what they have been using with you up to this point.

 

They ain't getting any money from me either, and to think I had been planning on buying their bodies for future minimee heads. Fantastic job, Demon Garden.

 

My girlfriend and I bought a DemonGarden body for one of her floating heads off of ebay in December. Mid-transaction demongarden2008 was banned from DoA. She (?) wrote to me via eBay to beg for a second chance. I explained that the rules had been violated and the decision wasn't mine to make anyway. This communication apparently opened the door for more, maybe because I'm a moderator?
I mentioned to DG when giving her feedback on the body we'd received that the company might want to consider resolving this problem by simply sending strawberrysodaz a new head because a reputation on DoA for poor customer service can make or break a new company. I liked the body and saw potential for growth and improvement in the company and it made me sad to see them foolishly picking a losing fight. I didn't think much of it, but the next morning I found a series of eBay messages from DG:

12:56am
Dear aaronstjames,

Thanks you tell me this.
I want to say strawberrysodaz was lied.
Dear aaronstjames could you give me your e-mail address?I want let you know sober truth Because my DOA member was forbidden so I didn't know what things her said.
We were contact her I told her if it is our problem we will sent a new doll.
Her is chinese her have been grinding Beau head.
Please give me your address I will sent mine chat Logs (With strawberrysodaz).And she give me some photos It is her malicious acts.This is her give me photo web address:http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq44/viCOcoham/Image2219.jpg
I told her i need clear photos about our doll head and neck she don't give me.
I told her let her shipped back to me,and we will check it if it is ture ,it is our dolls quality problem we will sent a new doll for her,But she dare not shipped back to me.She want blackmail us.We are very love my dolls it is my painstaking care.
Thanks

- demongarden2008

1:56am
Dear aaronstjames:
Excuse me English,I'm very angry now.
Because strawberrysodaz was lied,many buyer bought our Beau and never have this problem.
Please see this photos (http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq44/viCOcoham/Image2219.jpg)We were done experiments If the head is too far down the neck it is only have been grinding.
Her ture name is "xxxxxxxx"Her tell me let me use Chinese exchange, I was told her very clear.I was told her please give me a clearly photos(She only give me blurred photos),But she don't give me.
I also told her please shipped back to me,I will check it,If it is our quality problem I will sent a new doll for her.
But she dare not shipped to me.
And now she backbiting our doll.
It is have been grinding by herself,and she want to blackmail us,we are sold many Beau to all over the world (USA UK Germany Holland and so on).
We are never have this quality problems.We are make hight quality BJD dolls we are used best resin.
We are very love our doll it is all my heart.We were done experiments let the doll's head down to neck, It will let the all head brock.Need very very larger power,except grinding the head.
Hope you can understand me.
Thanks
DG dolls

2:18am
Dear aaronstjames:
Excuse me my English,I'm very angry now.
Because strawberrysodaz was lied,many buyer bought our Beau and never have this problem.
Please see this photos (http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq44/viCOcoham/Image2219.jpg)We were done experiments If the head is too far down the neck it is only have been grinding.
Her ture name is "xxxx xxxx xxx"Her tell me let me use Chinese exchange, I was told her very clear.I was told her please give me a clearly photos(She only give me blurred photos),But she don't give me.
I also told her please shipped back to me,I will check it,If it is our quality problem I will sent a new doll for her.
But she dare not shipped to me.
And now she backbiting our doll.
It is have been grinding by herself,and she want to blackmail us,we are sold many Beau to all over the world (USA UK Germany Holland and so on).
We are never have this quality problems.We are make hight quality BJD dolls we are used best resin.
We are very love our doll it is all my heart.We were done experiments let the doll's head down to neck, It will let the all head broken,it is need very very larger power,except grinding the head.
Hope you can understand me.
Thanks
DG dolls

6:30am
Dear aaronstjames,

And I want you know Why She N81 moble phone pixels only have one hundred thousand?
Why she dare not give me clearly photos and why she dare not ship the doll back to me let me check?
I told her I would like to help her,but she don't give me a answer.
Hope you can understand me!We were sold many doll to all over the world.We are still have good feedback,and have problem we are very pleasure to help buyer.

- demongarden2008

I haven't responded to any of these because I don't care to be involved any further. I was only speaking as a customer not as a DoA mod when I wrote to DG. It's difficult to reconcile Chinese business etiquette with our usual standards of customer service. It feels like we need some Diplomacy 101 kind of post for new foreign sellers so they don't keep blowing it like this.

 

I'm just REALLY glad that I saw this thread. I was going to buy a DG doll but....forget it now. Strawberry- Many hugs for you from my dolls and myself. Dont worry, everything will end up ok for, and your "first doll" *whispers* I dont think this one should count.

 

strawberrysodaz, I would highly recommend doing a chargeback using the bank or credit card you used instead of filing a Paypal dispute. Last year I filed a dispute against Luts for a damaged doll they refused to replace (for the same reason- they felt my photos were not good enough and believed there was no damage), and this is the automated response I got from Paypal:

"Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund."

Good luck with DG. >_<

 

@StJames- diplomocy 101: I actually think thats a really good idea. Very practical.

 

That sound like a good idea considering the recent bout of terrible customer service from newer companies. -_- Though it's not our job to do something like that. You'd think they'd require it anywhere someone gets a business degree. -_-

 

Hmm so 7 hours is too long to have a doll before you complain- but the post office having it in their control for probably a week while it gets tossed around is totally irrelevant? The damage even looks consistent with being dropped.
I too would be reluctant to spend the money returning something so expensive and costing so much to post with tracking, with no guarantee of even getting anything back from them except a bill to return it again in the same state. I don't think that proves blackmail at all, they certainly seemed sceptical from the beginning.
As I believe it was Cauldroness said- you *have* to file with Paypal first, then after they deny your case, then go to your Credit card company/bank, otherwise you can find yourself in trouble with Paypal.
As for the possibility of them not having money in their Paypal account should you win, I wouldn't mind betting they have money going through there all the time- I bet Paypal could nab your money should they decide in your favour.
Best of luck with this, I feel so sorry that your first doll has to have such drama!

 

Err... The rep from Demon Garden actually consistently sent St. James messages via ebay about this transaction? Isn't this a form of harassment? But even if it isn't, I find this highly inappropriate behavior.

Anyway, didn't elisa_maza's sister in law also have the exact same problem? The neck hole was too big, and the doll's head cracked! Except that she ordered from Happy House, and they sent a replacement head.
So! It looks like Strawberry isn't the first person that this happened to--meaning Demon Garden's accusation is somewhat false ^.^;;

Anyway... I'm just so sorry that this happened to you strawberrysodaz. It really is a terrible doll experience, especially if it is your first doll x_x. Again, I'm just going to second what everyone else has said, and file a credit card charge back. It seems like the best option... Though it might be helpful to file a paypal dispute first, and if that fails, try a credit card charge back.


Lastly... What does PR mean? I'm really sorry if this is an obvious question, but I'm not all that good with all of these abbreviations ^.^;;

 

This is a pity. ._. I've been interested in their body sculpt for some time now, but seeing their responses to a damaged doll situation has definitely turned me off buying from them.

Even though I live in Asia, I don't think I'd take the risk. :\ After all, I could have a similarly damaged doll arrive in the morning while I'm at work/school, and only be able to open it in the evenings, but too many hours have passed, and I'd be accussed of falsifying the damages?

I'm thinking that having someone mediate diplomatically might still not be enough. D: Recent events seem to show that when the irate customer begins to show signs of not wanting to take their excuses lying down, they flare up with completely unnecessary threats and drama. I think they need to learn how to deal with customers in a less explosive way as well, rather than merely have someone play diplomat.


Silver_Unicorn>> Perhaps she felt that since St. James is a mod, it would classify as PMing a mod about a problem transaction? Which while they state they don't get involved in, I guess it could be argues that it isn't exactly harassment either? PR = Public Relations? :3

 

PR- Public Relation.

I am rather surprised that this person kept on sending messages to St James. In addition, the English is rather poor. I am not surprised that they react this way to this thread. They probably do not have a full concept about what was discussed. They ought to find someone who have a better understanding of English if they plan on doing business with oversea customers.

 

Just to clarify, the messages I received were NOT via PM. demongarden2008 had already been banned and had no access. These messages were sent via the link ebay provides between buyers and sellers. So they were all in "the seller has a question for you about this item" type format.

I think what new sellers just aren't getting is that even if an occassional bad seed crops up, it's always wiser to defer to the customer. It will only cost a little money and time to replace a damaged item, and this isn't going to actively encourage hundreds of doll owners to take advantage of a lenient replacement policy. It's just not that kind of business. A damaged reputation can't be fixed with $200 and a trip to the post office.

 

Aah, thank you Anaval and kiradyn_rhiode. I would never have guessed that. ^.^ -feels silly now, but a little wiser than before-

Anaval: I think you are right though--maybe Demon Garden reacted the way they did because they did not fully understand what we were saying... When I re-read their messages, it does sort of look like that. Still, language barriers aren't a valid excuse for the accusatory and immature messages that DG sent Strawberry.

And eeps, I did mean messages via ebay. So sorry, St. James. I edited my post to specify that it was on ebay ^_^

Still... The way DG is handling this (and while we're on topic, a lot of other newer companies handling similar problems) reminds me of when I was working retail... I learned two important rules there about customer service:
1) Never make assumptions about the customer
2) The customer is always right

 

I do not believe that the customer is always right, but even with blurry pictures, the fact that Demon Gardens was contacted promptly (the same day of delivery) and the damage is consistent with shipping trauma, I think it is very poor form for the company to accuse the buyer of damaging the doll.

If I received that kind of attitude from a company, I would not want to shell out EMS fees to return the doll on top of the money already spent... not wanting to ship the doll back is not proof that the customer is lying.

After reading Demon Garden's side of the story, I do not think I will purchase from them... even though their dolls look nice and are reasonably priced, a couple of hundred dollars is too much money to lose, and that kind of potential aggravation is definitely worth avoiding.

 

I agree that while the other DG's emails weren't polite, they weren't terribly rude either. But the final email was completely unacceptable. What a bunch of nonsensical excuses.

Strawberrysodaz, I hope you manage to take better photos as proof for DG, or Paypal, or the credit card company. If you can't get sufficiently clear photos, I wouldn't mind meeting up to help you photograph the damage. Also, perhaps you can get someone to write back to them in Chinese to avoid further misunderstanding on their part.

 

I'm standing by everything I already said even after seeing the translations. They had absolutely no need to accuse the OP of anything at all, being instantly on the defensive about your product is never going to be a good sign and in this case, is just incredibly bad for business! I worked retail for probably longer than is good for you, so I KNOW the customer is not always right, but in this case...please, it's a HEAD...a clearly damaged in transit one and a sculpt which, by all accounts, seems to have had issues before, JUST REPLACE IT!

Good luck to the OP and DG...yeah...good luck getting a sale now.

 

Lol, the rules I learned while working retail are:

1) Never argue with the customer
2) Make good use of that poker face

Two of which DG can't keep themselves from breaking.

 

wow this is just sad, i sure hope everything gets workout. I think you can file a dispute with paypal within a month of receiving the order

 

i was thinking of buying Derek of DG by Happy house..but reading all this,makes me scared.think I might just pass on him eventhough he is wonderful.
good luck and I hope the send you another complete doll....think they are rude and onaware of how to tread a problem....

 

i was just thinking....ur fotos u took originally...do they have a date and time stamp..if so did u take a foto of the unopened box? maybe the time stamps could prove to them that u clearly didnt have time between u opening the box and discovering the head like that to have "grinded" it????

 

I've been refraining from posting in this thread because I wanted to see the emails DG sent to Strawberry first. Being Chinese myself, I can understand and appreciate that there's bound to be differences when it comes to replying in Chinese as opposed to replying in English, so like others have said, the first two responses or so were kind of standard in terms of how Chinese companies respond to situations like this.

However, I agree with many of you that in their later emails, when they started mentioning DoA, they did start to get rather rude - not to mention, it was completely unnecessary for them to say anything about DoA at all, let alone demand that Strawberry stop posting on the forum if she wanted the problem resolved.

Since when did it become common business practice to threaten a customer? Having worked in customer sales myself, I've come across many annoying customers who demanded refunds and what not, and I also don't believe that the customer is always right. However, in this situation, it's obvious that DG are at fault in my opinion.

Even if a customer did get their doll and decided to spend 7 hours modding its neck hole to make it look damaged only to claim a refund (which is plain stupid why anyone would want to do that in my opinion); I just can't see HOW DG can state that they have evidence the doll was damaged by the customer if they haven't even SEEN the doll in person again or have it in their possession to examine it. It's what? Half way across the world, out of DG's reach?

Heck, they even claimed that the photos taken were too blurry to show the damage properly. So if the photos are too blurry to see the extent of the damage, I do hope they're not using those same photos to base their 'so-called' evidence on.

And just because this hasn't happened to any of their other customers' dolls before doesn't mean it can't happen ever (yeah, I know a similar incident happened before, but DG don't seem to take that into account since they claim their dolls aren't flawed). No matter what happens or how ridiculous the situation might seem, as a business (and a new-ish one at that too), I think it would be best if they just suck it up and either refund Strawberry's money or send her a new doll.

Honestly... as if someone is really going to wait X number of weeks for a doll they really love, only to get the doll and spend 7 hours sanding open it's neck hole and shoving its head down its neck. I don't know what DG are thinking, but I, for one, won't be buying from them either.

 

well..................that no demon garden for me either, calling strawberry a liar is just a low blow, i can see something was odd even with the blurry pic >.>

 

I think the way DG are treating this is disgusting. It is most certainly nothing to do with them if Strawberry posts about a negative experience with them, more so when they begin contacting other members of doa over ebay. We are a community that shares a love for dolls, if a company tells us to stop posting about them (it makes me think there is something they are hiding...), they are casting a poor reflection upon themselves and their practises! Doesn't it say something that they are already banned from doa for excessive advertising and spam? It makes me wonder if they are honest at all.
I'm amazed at the whole situation that has arose from this when a broken finger in transit from most doll companies gets a replacement hand...

 

How ridiculous they are.

The crack is quite clear to see, poor camera or not. Good grief. You can't get the head off to take a picture of the base of the head... what is so difficult to understand about that?

Rude, inconsiderate, and now very unfortunate because they've just turned a whole lot of us totally off.

Get it, DemonGarden? It's not that strawberrysodaz posted her problem that has turned us off. It's your incredibly poor customer service. Wake up and smell the resin.