Major Problem with Demon Garden

i am sorry to hear about your problems, but i think you are doing all that you can at the moment. i would not try to remove the head or force it in any way as Demon Garden may hold you responsible for further damage. it sounds as if the head got jammed down onto the neck, this could have occurred during shipping if the packaged were jammed into something. just wait and see what the response is before taking further steps.

 

I'm sorry to hear that,It is the EMS shipping problem,please contact the EMS.

Pfff. Please contact EMS? That's helpful as hell. They sound rude too. Note to self - Never buy from Demon Garden!

I hope they will do something.

 

Ugh that is a shame! Are those the photos you sent? I think they are rather clear. Sounds like they are trying to to take responsibility. Quick way to loose lots of business. :/

 

Was the box was damaged? Even if it was a shipping problem, I think the sender, not the recipient, is responsible for dealing with postal insurance.

Don't try to remove the head or do anything to the doll... leave it as it is until the problems are settled, and see if you can get someone who has a better camera to take pictures... those are too fuzzy to see the crack clearly. Also, take a picture of the inside of the head.

Sorry to hear this... it is even more difficult when it is your first doll

 

wow, thats the first time I've seen anything like that before

was the box squashed/ damaged?

maybe a picture of the inside of the head will help see whats going on?

I wouldn't have thought the resin between the head and the neck would be thin enough to cave through like that on any od the heads I've handled

 

I've never seen a doll sent out that looked that way.

MY guess is that it happened in Customs, that someone in Customs opened, inspected, and possibly took the head off the doll looking for drugs, then just jammed it back on.

 

Wow, that's insane. Good luck with getting your doll fixed. Honestly I think Demon Garden is coming off as extremely rude.

 

I'd be inclined to think its either Customs or EMS's problem. But my first port of call would be to get some clearer pix to Demon Garden...try using your 'macro' in natural light?

 

If they refuse to cooperate - yes, you can most likely file a paypal dispute for a partial refund. (And if that doesn't work and you paid through paypal with credit or debit card, or possibly even transfered money to your paypal account from your bank right around the time you paid for your doll, you can call your bank and issue a chargeback - and leave paypal to sort it out with Demon Garden (whatever they do to account because of which they lost money).)

However, try contacting them again and telling them that only the sender can file a claim/dispute with EMS; however, since they only insured it for $10, that's all they're going to get.

Aside from the suggestions others have put out, when taking close-up shots, use a tripod or at least make sure you're leaning your hand against something sturdy. Since the body seems to be intact, I think you only really need a replacement head. I'm curious, however... How is it that this doll is constructed so that you can actually jam the head on that far?

 

Seller needs to contact the EMS service. I doubt the EMS service will be much help if the package was only insured for (or marked as value) $10. There must be something severely wrong with the sculpt of the head for it to be able to sit that far down on the neck!! The photos are clear enough to see that there is an obvious problem, but for the sake of clarity I would recommend retaking the pictures and trying to focus on the subject, as the background is sharp in the pics above while the doll is out of focus.

If the company refuses to deal with you, you might want to start a Paypal dispute and try to get a refund or replacement. Just be careful with reading the Paypal policies when selecting the reason for starting the dispute, as not all their listed reasons will entitle you to a refund. This is appallingly poor customer service from a company that has only just started up.

 

oh nooooo, now "that" is just wrong, all over the place. the head is clearly damaged, cracked and jammed down onto the neck. it should sit just a tad below the top of the neck, this head is sitting on the shoulders, the whole entire neck being thrust up into the head itself. even without elastic and an "S" hook a head should not be able to fall down onto the shoulders like that, there is clearly a defect in the size of the head opening.

i am curious, is the opening in the bottom of the head cracked as well? if it was jammed down this far, i would think it would be cracked. if not, and the opening is actually that big, it has been made incorrectly.

again, i feel for you.... i have never, ever, seen such a thing.

Edit to say, i have forgotten to mention how beautiful he is, making it all the more tragic.

 

Even if the blurry pics of the crack were unseeable, WHAT ABOUT THAT HEAD?! Oh my gosh, I literally cringed and if noone could see something horribly, horribly wrong I would need smack them with a salmon. I would be utterly sobbing seeing the head attached like that...

But yeah, here's hoping you get a replacement head for your poor doll...

I'm sorry, but I am so SHOCKED at the head connection...

 

It seems really odd that if the doll head was physically crammed back onto the neck that a crack wouldn't be at the base of the head. It's really odd that the crack is by the eye of all places...It doesn't even look like there are scrapes along the neck from the head being shoved down it. Or that the top of the neck is crammed against the eye. You might have two different set of damages that happened independently of one another...

I'm thinking that the hole of the head might just be too big. The DG necks are really thin...is there any damage to the neckhole on the head?

you need a stronger macro lens for your camera to really make it clear. The mark still looks like eyeliner. You might wanna rent a camera or something.

If everyone (ems and DG) is still reluctant to help you then I really think you should just take his head off. You might be able to save it.

 

It seems like a combination of shoddy design and possible flaws during manufacturing. I'm curious as to how the head is usually attached... this doesn't look like it could even be a result of bad stringing. Can anyone with an unbroken Demon Garden doll take comparison photos of the inside of the head and overall neck joint? It might help determine the cause of damage, as well as provide a basis for argument if they still can't see the damage (how could they even miss it in the first place, wtf).

 

I could not believe what I was seeing - Demon Garden have to take some action surely over this - send more photos and give them a time limit to reply. If they exceed this contact paypal or your credit card folk and get your money back that way. So sorry to see and hear this and your first doll as well.

 

just curious, do they have a member account here on doa??

maybe you'd have better luck contacting them through pms?

im at a loss. i have no idea what to tell you =[ except im so sorry happened to you, especially being your first doll.

 

wow, I can't believe they didn't think they did something wrong about that dolL!

 

You grinded the head onto the neck? Either way, DG is pretty... bold thinking you actually were capable of doing such a feat... O__o

EDIT: I mean, they think you grinded the head .__.

 

What is happening here is a doll company trying to skirt the issue of responsibility. If the doll was well packaged inside the shipping box, that type of damage with the head should not have happened in any way, even if the box was slightly crunched at one end.

I think the best course of action is take pictures of everything that arrived with your doll from as many angles as possible. Once that is done, send the doll back to them explaining that if you were not responsible for the damage. If they do, by some unearthly means, send the damage doll back to you, file a claim with your credit card company if that was the way you paid. They were wrong in marking the box as only being worth 10 dollars. I can understand marking them lower, but not ten dollars.

 

Thats so silly. I'm not saying Demon Garden can't sculpt, but there is no way you could possibly jam it that far down the neck. Not just that, if you attempt to remove it and the whole thing cracks, they could blame you for it.
I would also advise you to take as many pictures as possible, as clear as possible. Try to get pictures in natural light outside if possible, so DG can't use the excuse ''The pictures weren't clear enough!''
The head should n't be able to go that far down, this could only happen if the neckhole was too big to begin with and a lot of force was applied to it. I really do hope this sorts out in your favour.

 

My theory? DG packed it badly, EMS dropped the box so the doll was up side down roughly and the body smooshed into the head like that.

I can not get over how friggin' scary those pics are... It's like my little cousin who broke her barbie's neck and jammed the head onto it... O___o

EDIT: Grind as in... grab the neck and neck and sorta try to smoosh it together by grinding... Caveman style...

Dunno about paypal :/

 

Oh my god, this is terrible for you. I hope you can get them to send you another one, as he's beautiful.

But how the hell his head got like that is a mystery. x__X

But I agree, you need to use the macro.

 

This really is a shame as I recently got a body from them ok. But as a company ( and a new one at that), even if it isn't their fault they should show good customer service and just offer to give you a refund or replace your doll, or at least try and work something out with you, as this doesn't instil any confidence.
I wish you luck with this.

 

I don't understand this "if you send it back and we determine it was your fault we don't give you a new doll." What is up with that? Your item was damaged in shipping, you sent them pictures, and if you send the doll back you should get a refund or a new doll. End of story! If you send the item back and they won't refund you then I would file the Paypal claim then. You have lots of evidence. Good luck.

Edited to add, why do these companies think they can get away with treating their customers like this? Do they not read this board? Do they not understand that if they treat people suspiciously then people won't buy from them? I don't think there are many, if any, doll owners who will buy an item that costs hundreds of dollars, break it in the first hour and then demand compensation for that. BJD hobby just doesn't work that way. Seriously, the more of these types of poor service stories I read, the more disgusted I get with these new startup companies.

 

yes, i think they are concerned that in trying to "modify" the neck hole opening you made it too large and now want to have your doll replaced. it does sound ridiculous and that they are trying to "skirt" the issue, but i am sure that someone has tried this. there are a lot of people in the world with less than honorable intentions.

it does seem that several of these BJD companies are more than happy to take our great sums of money, make us wait endlessly for delivery, and then give little or no customer service in return. i am sure that this situation is as shocking to DG as it is to us, and probably can't even imagine how such a thing could have left their factory in such a condition. i am not saying that their behavior is appropriate, but they have not said that they will "not" replace the doll, they just want to know how this has happened.

o.k., so having said all this, i think paypal allows 45 days from payment to open a dispute. i would look at their resolution center tutorials to find out what is involved. they have guidelines by which you can file a claim, not all reasons are allowable.

 

I completely agree with Bunnydots, this is poor business. The doll should have been packaged more appropriately, marked fragile and declared for the full amount. If customs was an issue, there would be forms and it would have said 'opened'. Customs wasn't mentioned by the receiver, the sender/doll company is responsible. I'm just angry when companies poorly treat their customers. You trusted them and they can't do the same for you.

I need to go to the company website and see if they have any policy for returns and time limits. I think Luts has a month? You contacted them promptly after receiving the doll, I'm sorry you are dealing with this and have to send the doll back - notice too they said nothing about reimbursing you for the shipping?

 

Wow, this is surprising. I have several DG bodies myself and haven't had a problem. They're not a particularly expensive doll, but their resin definitely seems solid enough! I don't have any of their heads though to comment on how thick the resin is around the neck hole but this is pretty dramatic!

Unfortunately you can't contact them thru DOA As the member was banned for excessive advertising -- (see notice)

 

I would definitely file a PayPal dispute. If the item came to you "significantly not as advertised" that's a valid reason for a dispute and it might at least let Demon Garden know you're serious about this.

It's really ridiculous to even raise the possibility that someone would attempt to put their doll's head that far down on the neck. Who on earth would do that? Cracks sometimes happen, but this is way beyond that.

 

oh gosh thats terrible! I'm honestly not impressed with the way Demon Garden is dealing with this.
Just a thought..can your parents write Chinese as well as speak it? It might be worth a shot to take clearer photos and to write back to them in chinese, it might be easier to be able to explain properly to them whats happened and that it's not your fault. I doubt te language barrier is helping at the moment..
I hope this all gets sorted for you! Such a terrible thing to happen with your first doll..

 

Yeaaaah, looks like DG is another company I'll never buy from.

I agree with what others have said about filing a Paypal claim ASAP. Personally, I wouldn't bother with negotiating further - I'd just focus on getting my money back. They sent an item, it arrived damaged, and now they want the recipient to send the item back to ascertain if they deserve a refund? Umm, no. That's not how it works.

 

You really need good pictures of the crack to send to them. If your camera has a "close up" option that is your best bet for getting a clear picture. Otherwise, you can take a clear picture a little ways away and enlarge it and crop it. Flickr has a really good editing option that allows you to do this.

 

I tried to open the neck opening on my minimee once (so it will fit the neck of the body I wanted to use....) I literary slaved for an hour and got really no where deeper than like 1/4 inch from sanding ; so I really do not think what they are thinking about when they said that you may have done it. Who is that insane.

Seriously, they think that a customer (forget about BJD collector but just average consumers) is going to spend hundreds of dollars on a doll from oversea, waited a few months for an item that they pre-paid, then just to get a "thrill" from jamming his head in upon the second of arrival and make a claim with them???!!!

I think you need to make claim already to paypal or credit card, immediately. If you are beyond the time to file claim with Paypal - it may be a little tricky (pm me if you want). But you must file a claim. This is not an acceptable product and they are not planning on giving a replacement doll plus shipping.

 

I think it's ridiculous to ask you to pay for shipping it back -- that's money that you may not ever get back, if this company (that's already acting shady) then "determines" that you're at fault.

 

It sounds like they think you enlarged the neck hole by "grinding".
It would be nice if we could see the inside of an undamaged DG head to see how the neck's built inside. Most resin dolls have a substantial amount of resin there.
And where is the S-hook? Did you remove that for the photos?

Note also how thin the resin is in the photo of the back/inside of the head, where you can see the light shining through the resin by the eye area. No wonder it's cracked!

Good luck with all this, it's terrible when this kind of thing happens with someone's very first bjd. :-/

Raven

 

I seem to remember that old Volks dolls (and maybe other companies too, but I've only seen it on Volks) didn't have any resin "shelf" in the head that went on top of the neck and held the s-hook/o-ring/whatever. There was just a hole in the head a little smaller than the neck, and the s-hook attached to a resin loop in the headcap. If that was the construction, I can see how with tremendous efforts one can force such a head down the neck.

However, you'd REALLY have to try. Dropping the doll box a few times isn't going to do it, unless the resin was that soft and the neck hole that big.

Also, what I found helpful when taking pictures of damage: (my first doll came somewhat damaged too, though admittedly the company was much nicer to deal with ) take a sharp source of light - like a table lamp. Then, turn off other lights in a room and light the damage so that it casts a really obvious and dark shadow that raised resin (like one side of a crack) would. It's much easier for your camera to pick the sharp contrasts up. Also, when taking a picture allow your camera to focus, and make sure it's focusing on the right thing.

In any case... file with paypal/your bank. DO NOT send the doll back to them whatever you do, because then it's out of your control. There's really no way for them to prove or disprove that you've done it, and they're likely to insist you did it to not lose money in this - considering how shady they've been already.

And don't lose hope! If you manage to take off the head (just don't try it if you file with paypal until your claim is done), it might still be possible to fix it. You'd just have close the neck hole with epoxie sculpt a bit, reinforce that crack on the inside of the head and sand it down lightly on the outside. If worse comes to worst, you still have the undamaged body - and this right here is probably the most expensive part of the doll. You can put any other doll head on this body - the same one, if you really like this sculpt, or maybe you'll even find a different one that you like even more!

 

It's possible that Paypal might not want to refund on a "significantly not as advertised" claim and will make you send it back to get a refund. I've heard a number of complaints that Paypal disputes for eBay items work pretty well when you never got an item at all, but not so well if you get it and it's not what you bargained for, is slightly damaged, etc.

However, you could file the claim now and if they start up with that "won't refund as you did receive item" send it back then, insured with tracking, and take tons of pictures of all of it before you send it out.

 

Yes sadly Paypal will make you pay to return the item and you will be out that money lf you are close to the deadline you might want to file with Paypal, and hold off escalating the dispute until you see how they are going to respond- just don't miss that deadline! If you paid with a credit card through Paypal you can dispute it through your bank if Paypal denies your claim. It definitely looks like it was very badly packaged, and he was roughly treated in the mail, but even so surely the resin must have been paper thin in that area for that to happen!
If Australian customs had opened it, there would have been bright yellow tape used to close it with 'opened by Customs' written on it- so I think you would have noticed that Good luck with it all, these stories are pretty worrying, you trust that companies will follow through to ensure you get what you paid for, not avoid you!

 

Whatever you do, make sure you are very firm with them. Tell them it's not acceptable for them to send you such a product and they have to take responsibility.

It's simply not possible for someone to do that to any doll I've ever held. Something very bad must have happened during shipping, and if they hadn't declared that the doll was only worth $10, then they would be able to claim through EMS and get their money back. Because they can't do that, it's their responsibility to foot the bill and either replace the doll or give your money back.

Be very firm in telling them this, and don't back down. Send them messages everyday if you have to, but they have to be shown that they can't get away with acting like that in business!

 

may i suggest taking a picture holding the torso and head upside down to show that the head won't move? (as it sounds like it's not going to budge from your descriptions) - surely that would show you didn't sand the neck hole as if it were sanded open/wider the head would slip off.

 

Completely this, most companies if they are smart will jump on board & work with you if you are firm and apply pressure, like the paypal claim.

If you have box opening pictures, this would also be the best time to use them.

 

Definately take one of someone holding the doll upside down to show you didn't sand it either! The head could come off if you had done that. Good luck!

 

I'd contact paypal and ask what your rights are and what they would recommend. I wouldn't send the doll back with out talking to paypal first.

 

I've never heard of a doll breaking like this, and I've been here for four years. It looks like their head design is flawed, and IMHO possibly the resin was defective and warped under pressure.

I agree 100% with talking to PayPal first, and your idea of only returning the head.

 

Are you capable of filming footage?
If so, I HIGHLY recommend that you get a good shot of the doll before attempting head removal, and filming it while you remove it, so if anything does happen you will have proof that it wasn't you.

 

i-m so sorry for you strawberrysodaz!!

a couple of weeks ago i make s split with another friend, we brought Dereck, she have the body, i have the head, and hopefully all was ok...the doll arribe a little dirty but thats all..but...this neck..i mean, could be posible that crack in the eye if the pakage have a hard hit but...his neck...well as people tell you, i found imposible to get the neck so inside of the head, my Dereck head have the "neck hole" much smaler, its imposible to fit the hole neck...
well i really wish all this problem will be solved soon

 

This is a good idea, but I would like to add that when you do take this picture, have something in the background that's undeniably upright (A table, tree, backyard grill, whatever. Just no plain walls). I wouldn't put it past these nutcases if they start accusing you, "Well, that picture's been flipped upside down!" ...

The things they come up with....GRINDING?

 

Glad to here your parents are on to it now.

I'm a bit wary that they have requested the doll back to see if you've sanded it or damaged it. Surely it's likely that it will show some sort of damage, seeing as it's faulty anyway? How will they be able to tell whether or not you've done it yourself? It disturbs me that they've said up front that if they think you've damaged it they will not refund. Most companies would not throw such insinuations around if you've contacted them in a timely fashion after receipt.

I think it's best to file a Paypal dispute now. If they make you send the doll back, you'll need to send it back with full tracking.

It's a nice looking doll, but it looks like the design is faulty. It seems there is no 'cup' part inside the head to stop the head getting wedged on in this fashion. Anyone with this headmold will need to be careful.

 

I just realised. Was there any extra resin or dust from the head when you discovered the damage? Cuz I would be sincerely worried around that...

 

That is quite likely, as you will need to send it back to get a refund either way. However, going through Paypal will mean that THEY will decide if the doll was damaged in shipping. Because the doll company seem more keen to blame you straight off, Paypal will probably be safer as they are a third party.

If someone with the same headmold can post a picture of the inside of the head (neck area) it will likely show that the design itself is faulty which can only help your case, I'm thinking.