BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

This is utterly disgusting...

 

But no, guys, buying recasts doesn’t hurt the hobby…. It’s not like every time someone buys a recast they’re padding this guy’s wallet so he has the power to fuck everyone over.

::sarcasm not strong enough::

 

If this is the case, won’t he run himself out of the business as well? With no new dolls to recast. Just saying cuz it doesn’t make sense, to me that is.

 

i dont think hes thinking that far ahead...

 

There will always be new blood in the hobby who want to save a few bucks to buy a MNF Chloe, or whatever other sculpts he already has. Even with older hobbyists who want to buy an "old" doll, it's still a huge selection.

 

I'm so glad we can discuss this here whereas some "other" groups shy away from the argument like cowards. People need to know what this does to the hobby! And now apparently he has enough revenue to do what even some smaller companies can't afford to do for themselves and buy copyrights and patents.

 

It's disgusting. Just disgusting.

I am personally interested in recasts and people who buy them from a sociological point of view. I read blogs and I have an account on the forum for pro-recast people, just to read about their experiences and opinions. I've never treated pro-recast people as the part of our community, because they ruin it from the inside. I do not think they are bad people in overall, but until now it was a total abstraction for them. They don't understand why they ruin the hobby, because they just want a doll and it's the most important thing in the world - it doesn't matter the rights to make the doll have been stolen before, they just want it. But I really do hope that many of them will see now HOW supporting recasters is ruining one of the most beautiful hobbies in the world and they will understand why we do not accept them in our social groups or meetings. And maybe I am naive, but I do hope that some of them will decide to buy only legit dolls from now, too.

At first I thought that it's just a rumour, but unfortunately not. We should do something.

 

i agree. we need to put this bad bloke out of business somehow...

Can we write complaints on Lou's store? ive done some digging and cant find anything.

 

To be honest I do not know if this would help...This person just do not care about other people, he just wants to make money.....
The only thing we can do in my opinion is hope that people who buy recasts realize how bad this is, because at the end if the companies have to close, there will be no more dolls, so we all will pay...., this is so sad and at the same time incredible, I still can not believe this has gone so far...

 

Also hoping that some of them might feel the Clue-by-four, but that does involve a certain amount of awareness regarding the bigger picture. The one recast owner I accidentally got to talk to straight up told me that she "had given enough money to those companies", and I still can't properly wrap my brain around that sentiment.

 

i dont think so that he will win this kind of game. big companies will make them arguments and i think so this person suposte to be banned forever from selling recast not his own dolls.

 

I certainly hope so, we can all hope that the just prevail and wicked are stopped, I sincerely hope with all my might that this jerk face cannot get his way and that the companies that make this hobby possible are able to stop him

 

There are "other" groups?
I cried when I read this on Instagram.
I don't understand how someone can register a trademark in a country, especially outside of his own, without giving proofs of ownership before being approved?! Can that really happen?

 

This is why people need to stop buying recasts. The people who purchase them are basically giving this guy license to do this! For those who didn't realize the consequences of buying recasts, they are about to, if Luo succeeds with his plans. After all, there wouldn't be recasts without the ORIGINAL dolls!

I know we cannot dictate what people can or can't do with their money, but I think pro recasters should at least be aware of this issue, before it goes too far!

Let's just hope that if enough companies band together against Luo, he will be identified as a fraud.

 

I'm on FB groups for bjd too and one if them will delete anything related to recasts even a question will be deleted. I feel like it doesn't help for newbies or topics like this where people need to be informed.

 

The problem is many of these companies don't actually own trademarks of their own company names and logos as it costs too much, so what he's doing isn't actually illegal. It's disgusting and immoral and I seriously hope he doesn't put any companies or individual artists out of business.

He's an arsehole that needs to be wiped already

Like everyone here I hope buyers change their minds about recasts.

*edit: just heard some companies are contesting it so fingers crossed

 

Wow.
Just... wow.

Dude's got some nerve. I hope he tries it with Volks and they take his ass to court over it. They're about the only company with the resources to do that.

 

I am so sad now. I really want to cry.

I'm curious what pro-recast people think about it and if they know that they are responsible for all this situation.

 

From what I observed in other groups discussing this, there are owners who interpret our outrage about this issue as "rallying hate and bullying recast owners"... so there are some who are taking it as personal attacks against them, and making it out like we're the bad guys.

 

Really? How blind they have to be?!

 

THAT is sick. So they are right and we are wrong? What kind of morality do they have, actually?

Is there any way we can report him to an international organization for copyright infringement? If he goes to jail or has to pay for it, all his trademark requests might be rejected.

 

Apparently, action is already being taken? @puffypuffers on Instagram: “Thank you so much @f15dolls. As she is part of the Chinese community, she was able to let me know what is going on on the other side of the…”

 

ahh, so like usual then?

 

Me too, their always like, “show me proof that recasts hurt the legit companies”, gee wouldn’t ya know it, here’s your proof you twats!

But I do sincerely hope the majority of them see this and realize what giving money to a thief can really do, and ultimately I hope they go legit

 

Yup, read that one, too, and following with tears!
He is selling the counterfeit items to many countries.
I bet the pro-recasts owners import from him, from China!
Based on that alone, he should be put to jail for selling counterfeit goods on US soil and other countries' soil, too.

 

So all these companies now have to spend their well-deserved profits, and then some, to fight this douche. I guess their dolls might go up in price after all this, assuming this doesn't bankrupt them?

 

as i saw he recasting just big famous companies so those companies maybe will go for legal rights and will fight for them doll scoulps and gives inafe evidence that this guy was theft or robber :-(

 

Show proof that it isn't, then! - Real proof though.
But they seem to want to shy away from facts. Wonder why......

While I find it hard to believe that companies would stay quiet about this, that does not mean that they all can afford to defend themselves, unfortunately...
So let's hope that those who do, will have a positive enough effect to get this guy to, at the very least, pay for it.

 

I don't think right now it will cause that much harm monetarily. The companies can still sell in the countries where they have their trademarks on, and also export to other countries that Luo hasn't touched yet. The consumers/buyers in the countries where Luo registered are the ones affected, as they might not be able to buy/import from these companies anymore if Luo extended his rights. But let's think of it this way: importing BJD is not that hard. If you buy from Iplehouse, and Iplehouse sends the doll by EMS to your house, the post office or custom office might not even look at the trademark thing. It's not widely-known that te trademark is owned by Luo and he hasn't acted anything on it, right? So the post office will still sends it to your house without second thoughts. Right now, the only largely affected country is China. He won't act in the US yet since he is selling counterfeit items and might be tried for it if caught, or he would be banned from exporting to the US if caught. :/

 

I haven’t watched the video yet but I have the gist of what’s going on. That is just awful. To have an artistic creation that took time, money, effort and heart & soul to create taken over and undermined like that is sad.

 

Sad enough, they'll get their proof when companies start to go under because there's nothing they can do to compete with cheap recasters....

 

It shocks me that he once worked for AE as an artist...as an artist! They should be aware of what it takes to do everything. He was banned (From what i've been reading from puffypuffers) because of the recasting. This is rotten, it trully is.
Now the thing is (and i'm already seeing it here) people are going against pro-recasters calling them names and such. That's not the right thing to do either.
Also maybe companies will make more competitive prices for their dolls? I'm not really sure how much profit they're currently making. I just think that there has to be a balance between the profit and the actual value of the doll, cos there're artist dolls that are more affordable or with better options for payment than "big" companies and maybe they'll have to check and consider that out with this issue aswell?
By no means I'm saying that this is okay. Whomever wanted to register a trademark, should be able to provide proof of original designs with dates and everything or else anyone could just claim any company like he's doing, which i find completely odd.

I'm glad of seeing that there're companies already taking action. I'm guessing that at some point, they will have to come to an agreement in between all of them and somehow get registered or acknowledged as they are.

 

Uggh, this whole situation is just infuriatingly UGGGGH. I've dreaded a day like this would come. Sadly, patent laws are, well, stupid when it comes to other countries. A good example of this is how the Enegizer Bunny, a battery bunny mascot from Energizer, is ONLY in North America. The rest of the world has the Duracell Bunny, but Energizer trademarked a "battery bunny" before Duracell could in North America. Cases of similar things happening are prevalent in the history of patents, and in some instances there is nothing that can be done in the other country that the patent is established. That only goes for China. In the US, which this asshat Lou is trying to patent terms, that shit won't fly here for long.

Back to the battery bunny scenario, Energizer was able to get away with this because even though they took the initial idea, they changed it enough so that it could be considered an original idea. The battery type and graphics were completely different. In the case of bjds and these recast, the ass it literally taking a pre-existing item and making copies of it. The companies being copied have proof of their ideas. Even though a doll in general cannot be patented because it is a generic item, a specific doll and it's mechanics can be. But if the idea was stolen, a case can be brought against the thieving party. In the US at least. I have no idea how laws regarding patents in china are handled, so I can't say much for them, but there is hope at least in the US against the asshole trying to patent terms!

 

Expressing disapproval of behavior that supports illegal activities and hurts artists = Name-calling ?

 

cutthroatgirl, there isn't a possibility to make a good quality doll in a recast (even the "expensive" one) price. And you can make recasts very fast, becuase you do not have to care so much about quality of your dolls, while making legit dolls requires a lot more time. When you want a legit doll with a competetive price, you can buy a doll from a cheaper company, but it will be propably not as good quality.

 

I'm pretty sure, as much as this is good info and does need to be known, that this is off topic for DOA...

 

While you have the right general idea, Cap, what's happening here relates to TRADEMARKS, not Patents. They're different things created for different purposes. (And Patent law is a whole can of worms unto itself. Equally ridiculous in places, and equally complex when you get into international trade.)

Just as a general refresher for anyone who's curious about Trademarks, Patents, Copyrights and the differences between them:
How Patents Differ from Copyrights and Trademarks - FindLaw
Trademark, Patent, or Copyright?
Difference Between Copyright, Patent and Trademark - Learn More Here!

 

Ugh, he has some serious nerve to do this. I had no idea this was happening until I saw the PSP video on it. I'm so disgusted. I have no idea how trademark laws work for other countries, but it seems like some companies are fighting back, and hopefully they can beat him to the punch. But I'm more worried about smaller companies that can't fight this. This is so pathetic and disgusting on his part, I don't think I can convey enough how mad I am. I don't know how anyone can try to justify recasts after this. They gave this guy the ability to do this and screw over the legit companies.

 

This is horrible, I really hope the artists and doll companies are able to take action and stop him.

 

Hello, I have done some google search and found links to trademark databases if anyone wants to check:
"worldwide" (doesn't include China) : https://www.tmdn.org/tmview/welcome
and for China: China Patent&Trademark Office

Here you can even look up what Luo applied for in China: Chinatrademakoffice search

And if you use "Advance search" on https://www.tmdn.org/tmview/welcome you can also search by applicant's name LIGUI LUO

This just must not go through!

 

@asunai This is GD and until the admin/mods decide it's off-topic, people are free to discuss it. Especially since this will potentially impact legit companies around the globe.

 

Yeah like I said important information... .Really...devastating information sadly

 

@asunai They'll probably let people vent for a bit and then close the thread. It's a safe place for people to vent about this ordeal, and people can add info as updates come along. I hope it all gets sorted out sooner than later...

 

I think it's a really important thread, because we don't use it to write "Recasts are bad and pro-recas people are bad", but to discuss about really unusual situation which affects all of us. And we can think about what we could do to help companies and give them our support.

 

Honestly, whilst this display of sheer brass is blatant and slightly mind boggling, it doesn't surprise me in the least. Recasters don't give a toss, their entire business model is built on ripping other people off, it shouldn't shock any one of us that eventually, they'd start to find a way to play at legitimising their pathetic thievery.

At this point, it's down to the companies themselves to get out there and start defending their product en masse. The simple approach would be for them to group together and pool their resources to ensure that the recasters are just nailed to the floor legally, but for whatever reasons, very few of the real companies seem to have been that concerned about the situation up until now. Perhaps this'll be the thing that spurs them into finally sorting the entire situation out once and for all. I imagine if they crowd funded it, they'd get it paid for in short order!

 

Ugh. This is so horrible. I just watched it earlier. Someone did say that companies are finding out and filing lawsuits. Before I bought my first doll, I was looking at recasts bc of their prices but thankfully I signed up here and watched youtube videos about how doll companies are usually just a few artists and that recasts are indeed stealing works of art. That broke my heart bc I have a band and I thought about people using my songs without me knowing but passing it off as their own
Point is, everyone that buys recasts after knowing the consequences and the fact that it's stealing has helped embolden this guy. I get that people don't want to pay a lot, but then just buy cheaper dolls. Save up for the more expensive ones! Don't steal someone's artwork bc you don't want to pay for what it's worth.

 

Isnt this topic forbidden here? I mean, recasts + drama...

 

lol i made a thread about it yesterday, and the mod took it down because "it was about recast". same thing here, but not removed LMAO.

But this problem should be addressed, so people could know what's happening with bjd community

 

If this idiot manages to obtain the rights to any of those dolls in question, this hobby is done for. If ever there was a relevant thread for this forum, this is it.

 

Well, this talk is going on many social media, I understand its something important to talk about, but its against the rules here so why are people bringing this inside? If I exception was about to be made because of the gravity of whats happening, we should wait for mods to do a topic about this or something.

 

BUT this is a problem that w

I guess they're trying to spread word around here, but otherwise what happens to this thread is really up to the mods if they want to delete it or not

 

Since your thread was deleted, wouldnt you feel its unfair if another about the same thing was keeped?

 

I don't mind it. Maybe it's cause the problem has gotten out of hand and this person's thread is probably timed correctly(?) lol

 

If you don't want to see it discussed here and think it's against the rules... Report the thread. It's that little grey triangle on the right. <_<

 

I see

Thank you (?)

 

If this isn't something anyone who loves BJD dolls and the artists who create them SHOULD be talking about, then I don't know what is, frankly. Pretty soon there will be no BJD hobby if this guy gets his way, and then Den of Angels will serve no purpose at all. DOA is the biggest community of doll lovers on the internet and if this thread being here means that some of the smaller companies (who might have missed it on Instagram or Tumblr/wherever) get to hear about this situation in time to protect their rights then that has to be a good thing. We aren't talking about Recasts at all here, we are talking about an individual trying to completely hijack this hobby and hold it to ransom

 

I've been watching this on Instagram since last night and it's so disturbing. I think we should try to call them counterfeit or bootleg dolls instead of recasts as it could help steer the conscientious newbie who might not know what a recast is towards legit dolls.

 

Please, don't misunderstand me. I don't mean to dismiss this whole deal. I just think that a member opening a topic about this creates precedent for members to talk about recast problems when they think its a community emergency, which can be very relative since recast are overall a bjd community problem. Because of this I think a "official" topic by moderators would be more fitting to a rule exception like this.

 

i totally get you, we need a admin to make an actual post on this... i'm surprised they haven't already. i hope they do so i can delete this one