Supplies W&N formula change + Munitorum Change Discussion

Aw man I've noticed it's been getting harder to find, and it had changed formula at least once in the past I think. Why????
Between that and MSC being impossible to import here, I'm not sure it's worth trying to do faceups anymore.

 

Thank you for the warning and I'm sorry your supplies are giving you such a bad time right now!

Are you able to return it? If it's a crappy product, it's a crappy product and they should get the message from the number of claims filed over it from unsatisfied customers. I'm sure you're not the only one upset over this.

It really sucks they changed it to be unusable. I hope you'll be able to find an alternative or some hidden bottles of the old formula. I'll have to be more careful not to waste the bottle I have.

 

I remember first buying w&n brush cleaner after reading many wonderful reviews on it, ended up rubbing a faceup off with pure elbow grease apparently? and just couldn't understand how it was so praised after going through a proper workout. Little did I know it was not the "restorer" kind, which I didn't know to look for.

I'm not really sure if it's a rebrand of the same product as it has no "restorer" in the name but I guess many stores are stocking it as such? I thought it was just a regional difference but I haven't seen the restorer anywhere (online/offline) within the last year so who knows. Unfortunately, it is also rubbish at cleaning brushes so... if anyone has the time and will to write bad reviews in the hopes they bring the old formula back?

 

As @cobaltconduct says never bothered myself as the formula differs europe way and sounds like they have updated the US/Canadian product to this other (non effective) version. Bad luck. You might want to start scouring physical art shops to see if they have any of the old formula left

 

I have a bottle of this with the new formula and I was able to get a face up/blushing off with it, but certainly took a lot more elbow grease to do so. I don't like it either...just wondering if other brush cleaners would work better?

 

I also got this recently and I was wondering if the faceup I was trying to remove was just very strong because it took so much more work with this versus isopropyl alcohol. ): I'd never used W&N before and everyone had hyped it up, didn't realize it was a reformulation problem!

 

Hi, I also use citadel munitorum for my sealant, are you able to expand on what the issues are? I tried to buy a couple of cans end of last year but the order was cancelled due to a manufacturer defect in the canister causing a supply issue. I've not checked in to see if it's still availble so has the change of formula happened with the new stock? Or was the change before that (I bought my last couple of cans a few years ago so might have missed that)

 

@AlisonVonderland Yes, it was bubbly on the face and body...a very soapy consistency...I felt like I was using dish detergent. I had to dig my nails into the cloth I was using to get it to just sorta come off. Then I have to wipe several times over to get some residue sealant off. Very time consuming and not very good on the hands/wrists/arms. I'll ask my local artshop to see if there's another type of brush cleaner similar to the old W&N formula.

 

Sadly I just got that confirmed, too.

Unfortunately a lot of places just update the images on old listings so the ratings and reviews are now out of date as well. Welp.

 

I never used this stuff, because it's quite frankly impossible to get here But as someone who has been using isopropyl/rubbing alcohol since 2008 on dozens and dozens of heads/parts, I promise you'll be fine. I yet have to find a faceup I was unable to get off with that and a piece of magic eraser. It's also on average cheaper and easier to get, and they can't really change the formula on you there. You just need to make sure to get the highest percentage possible (I currently have 95%).

The change in Citadel's spray is not good though. I mostly use MSC, but I like to use the two together for faceups on darker skintones to avoid the MSC ghosting. Hmm.

 

to be fair, the W&N brush cleaner and restorer you get in the UK doesn't work and never has. I wonder if this change was them rolling out a more consistent recipe for all markets because it always struck me as odd that the US version was different to the UK one. It does however work a treat for softening up brushes so it definitely has a use for anyone doing faceups. Particularly if you use a brush for sealant or gloss or glue for lashes. It'll fix those up beautifully. It's even restored the brushes I used for nail acrylic and those were CAKED in acrylic lol.
It lathers like soap which others are describing so yeah, sounds like you've got the UK mix now.

as for the munitorium varnish, I haven't noticed too much difference from the previous. It's definitely "satin" finish not matte, but that's something that changed when they stopped calling it purity seal. They've also changed something because the games workshop guy mentioned aerosol laws in the EU had changed? So they had to rejig something.

i'll need to run more tests on it to see if it's any more temperamental.

 

Hadn't realised that Munitorum varnish was now back on the shelves, been so long that sought out an alternative, Montana Matte Varnish, have a few bottles now so will be a while before I run out, any reviews of the new Munitorum in meantime would be appreciated

 

I would like to see what the new version can look like. I was going to look to see if any online sellers still have a can or two of the older version so it would be good to know what the new can design looks like. I've not found much in terms of news/ reviews for the new munitorium varnish but I have seen some places list it as gloss but the description describes it as 'semi-matt/ satin'. It seems a bit confusing!

Ahh! I picked up a bottle of W&N as everyone said how good it is and found it was really ineffective so was a bit confused about it. But if the UK formula is different then that explains it. At least I can still use it for cleaning brushes as i'm getting low on my old brush cleaner so not a complete waste!

I'd definitely be interested in more info testing/revieing new munitorium. I'm wondering if it looks better or worse depending on how light/dark the resin colour is? Or if it's temperamental to humidity/temperature etc. If it is looking glossy, I wonder if using a different brand matt varnish would knock off the glossyness (I'm thinking if the other spray is more expensive like MSC so you want to use it more sparingly). It'll be very disappointing if it's not suitable for doll faceups anymore as it was a easy to get option for us in the UK.

 

@Epicari I was lucky to have read a post from a UK hobbyist who confirmed that the UK version was completely different and wasn't worth getting so saved on my monies.

I got my MSC/Munitorium alternative Montana matt varnish when it was offer in Hobbycraft ... it was £7.50 for a large can it now retails for a tenner

 

I have hand issues. In UK so W&N never an option. Use isopropyl, soak some cotton pads, wrap on face, then wrap in cling film (saran wrap I believe US might call it). Leave it a while. Faceup will come off easily

 

Well if you guys want and weather permits, I have a fairly large assortment of different coloured resin dolls I can spray some munitorium varnish on lol.
Certainly on my huajing girl who's quite pale i'm not seeing any sheen but it may end up more obvious on a darker resin.

 

No problem! I have a mind that gets overwhelmed easily so can understand that things can end up feeling really stressful

Thanks for the feedback on your face-up attempt. It's interesting that the texture seems more even but has more of a gloss appearance. Maybe because the smoother surface is reflecting more light so it makes it look more shiny? I know some people mentioned with the older version that it could be glossy if it wasn't shaken/ mixed enough, could it be that the new needs a longer shaking time?
Also thanks for the picture of the two cans, it'll help me search for the older product

Thanks for the suggestion of alternative product! I was also looking for something I could use on fixing my art but didn't want to use a more expensive product so it might be a good one for me to try. It's nice that it has UV-protection so that's a bonus!

Speaking of alternative products, has any one used the Liquitex varnish spray for face-ups?

 

Someone on the forum recently did and it did not come off the resin well. (Apparently it's better on smoother Chinese resins but... better safe than sorry I guess). I use brush on Liquitex and that removes easily though.

 

I've tried Liquitex Matt Varnish and didn't exactly have good time with it. (it was a black bottle looking like this though so I don't know if they've since changed the product or just the bottle or if it's a completely different product altogether) it's like... It gives you a really nicely feeling matte base texture to work with so I thought at first that I'm gonna love it. Watercolor pencils didn't work on it (I don't remember if they didn't stick at all or if the texture was just too grainy for me taste) it was pretty fine if you only used pastels and acrylic paint though. - Until you made a mistake and needed to erase it because damn, that stuff ain't coming off easily

From my experience summed up: it was pretty safe to use on Chinese resin (Myou, DF-H, Asleep Eidolon - all have this slightly shiny plastic feel) and you could get it off them with some hard rubbing but do not use it on Korean dolls (Luts, Demit Doll) it seems the Korean resin sucks it in much deeper and I legit spent days trying to get it off from my dolls' faces, it was a serious workout.

So if you're going to try it proceed carefully, don't be me and spray multiple dolls at once. I actually still have it on my Myou Aubrey's face since I was alright with the face-up so I took quick two pictures up show the texture it has: one, two. As you can see it has a lot of texture, it also seems to be slightly darker/yellower than the rest of the doll, he's supposedly Myou's normal pink color. I can't recall if that's how it was to begin with or if it has darkened more afterwards.

 

Another UK resident here so I’m glad I found this thread.

Changes in formula for most things are usually a result of legislation changes regarding the chemicals used and as environmental laws quite rightly become tougher then so do the formulas for potentially harmful products. Laws also vary from county to country which can be a pain in the ass for those of us looking for things to use as what’s permitted in one may well be banned in another.
Formula changes also do not happen overnight, they will have been working on them for a long time and keeping the old stuff available as long as possible before replacing the products. There’s also a lot of legal hoops to jump through, tons of red tape and a lot of back and forth between different countries in order for the companies to be able to sell their products worldwide. Then of course there’s also label redesigning which again has to be different for different countries. It’s a hugely frustrating and costly undertaking so as annoying as it is to us when things change its nothing compared to what the actual companies have to go through! My husband works in regulation for a medical company and as laws constantly change it can be a nightmare trying to keep up on a worldwide scale. Even something as seemingly insignificant as the label can cause months of headaches as one country wants it worded this way yet another wants it a different way.

I know most of you know these things but I thought I’d put them out there for those who perhaps were unaware.

Anyway back onto the items in question…… @kyukyukyu I’m very interested in hearing more about this Montana stuff. What is it like? I’m used to using MSC which I buy from https://www.hiroboy.com on the rare occasion they actually have it in stock but like most of you always looking for alternatives.