Thoughts on removing artist faceups?

I have no qualms about removing someone else's faceup, no matter how good and professional it is. If doing the faceup yourself is a good way to bond with the doll, why hold back? Besides, you'll learn from doing make-up.
The only case in which I wouldn't buy a head with the idea of removing the faceup is if it had been done by a deceased artist. But, of course, I'd have to know that this artist is no longer alive.

 

I don't really hesitate on it if it does not fit my vision for the doll. If it helps you bond, and you're not enjoying the faceup, there really is no loss. It's better to lose a faceup that is highly skilled but not your idea for the doll than to keep it forever when you don't like it.

 

It took me a while to gather the courage to remove an artist faceup but I was glad I did it in the end. It's been someone else's choice on someone else's character and they're letting go of the doll/head so ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ Likewise, I would not mind someone removing faceups I've done on the dolls I've sold, sometimes I even offer to do a fresh paint job in the listing if the previous face is what's holding a buyer back.

 

If the current faceup doesn’t match my vision for the doll, I have no problem wiping it down, whether it’s a factory default or artist faceup. However, I have only wiped mine down to send them to other artists, because even though I like doing faceups myself my skill level is nowhere near where it needs to be to achieve the result I want.

to practice doing faceups I’ve bought a few cheap heads that I don’t particularly care about, and I send the dolls I really care about away to people far more skilled than myself.

 

I understand your hesitation. There’s no real answer to this as what it boils down to is that you have to think about whether or not going ahead will leave an element of guilt in the back of your mind that could sour your bond with the doll instead of strengthen it. Only you can know that.

Personally I almost always wipe any faceup whether it’s company or previous owner however I tend to avoid buying dolls with faceups by well known and respected artists for the very reason you mention. That work took someone hours to do and as an artist (in general terms) myself I kind of feel it’d be like walking into an art gallery or museum and taking some paint remover to a painting before drawing Hello Kitty on the canvas with a sharpie! That’s purely my way of thinking though and not dissing anyone who has no qualms about faceup removal.

I think perhaps one way of thinking about it could be “is the basic sculpt/doll readily available even if that means waiting for limited pre-orders if it’s by an independent artist?”
If the answer is yes then perhaps wait or look around to get a blank or owner faceupped one.
If the answer is no then buying and wiping may well be your only option so go ahead.

At the end of the day it’s your choice as once it’s in your possession it’s your doll!

 

Been there. Brought a limited edition head with a great artist face up, paid a lot. But the face up was so unlike something I'd like to see on that doll, so I wiped it out the very day I received the head. The problem is my own skills are not that impressive and for past six months I've been trying to pluck up the courage to paint the poor doll. What I'm trying to say is that while it's not a very good idea to have a doll with a face up you don't like, you should be sure that you'll just wipe the doll's face and set to work on a new one. Otherwise there's a risk to get stuck with a blank doll. Just an opinion

 

Another option to consider, if you love the current faceup and heads are readily available, to buy a second head to practice on.
I don't mind having duplicates of face molds so, I have done this to preserve company face-ups and have a second with an aritist's faceup.

 

I normally will keep the faceup for a little while until the doll shows what kind of character it wants to be, then I wipe it and redo the faceup the way it wants to be, if that makes sense. I normally don't start with a character in mind but let the doll speak to me. Sometimes it's hard because the faceup is beautiful, so I take some photos of it, then wipe it and redo it. After all, it is your doll now.

 

I have no problem with it - I'm getting the dolls for me so I want it to mathc my vision for it, if the existing faceup (no matter the "quality" or who it's by) works for my plans oft that scultp, then it says, ig not i wipe it and paint it myself or committion another artist to do it the way I want it.

Teddy

 

I’ve been on both sides, where I removed an artist faceup and regretted it, and where I removed an artist faceup and was very happy with the result. It’s definitely something that I give a lot of thought to since I can’t undo taking off the faceup. I love doing my dolls faceups but I know that I’m not the best at it and as a result, I’ll end up redoing the faceup a couple times. Sometimes I might just send the doll to another (or the same) artist instead. I have a mix of artist done and personally done face up’s in my collection, and I’m very happy with the variety.

 

I had professional faceups on almost all of my crew two years ago, but they were done by someone who treated me terribly. I won’t dredge up ancient history, but this person called me every name in the book, and evicted me unduly from a community I moderated, and I felt awful looking at their work on my dolls knowing how they’d treated me.

I wiped something to the effect of 20 professional faceups. I think it would’ve been around twenty. Just had a wiping spree. I did 3 heads every weekend. My faceups are not equivalent quality—I don’t have their experience with painting faceups, nor did I go to art school. But they’re more accurate to the characters and they’re good enough for me. I’m actually proud of how much all my dolls are mine now.

So my take? Who cares who did the faceup? Who cares how good it is? If you buy a doll and you want to change how they look, and you’re okay with how your amateur faceup is gonna look, I say do it, it’s freeing.

 

I tend to avoid buying heads with recently-done artist faceups for this reason. My skillset is nowhere close to where I feel confident in my ability to create my vision and I know from experience that a bad faceup inhibits my bonding with the doll. Luckily for me, if I'm going to buy secondhand, I tend to prefer very old dolls that usually have faded faceups to match their age. It's easy to wipe and ship them out when I know it's been several years since they were last painted.

I do have a couple of cheap, damaged practice heads to work on improving my skills. Until I reach a point where I'm confident in my abilities, I vastly prefer commissioning someone else.

All of that said, if you buy it, it's your doll. It's up to you if you want to wipe it and redo it, heavily mod it into unrecognizable oblivion, or draw on it in straight Sharpie. Just remember to use proper PPE for the sake of your lungs.

 

It depends. If the face-up was done by an artist that is otherwise not commission-able as part of a special release then I would not wipe it. I simply wouldn't buy the head/doll if it did not suit me.

If it was simply a face-up the previous owner had done or commissioned then I wouldn't feel bad at all. The work was done for their enjoyment, now it will be for mine.

 

I always paint my own faceups, so I have wiped some existing faceups from secondhand dolls. For me it depends on a few variables:

1. How rare is the sculpt? If the doll is still available new, or it's common on the secondhand market, I will not buy a secondhand head with an exceptional artist faceup. Another collector may be thrilled with that faceup and relieved that they don't have to wait for it or risk sending the head away to be painted. If I couldn't paint my own dolls, I know I'd be really excited to buy a head that already had a gorgeous faceup, so I try not to take that opportunity away from other collectors. And when the head isn't particularly hard to come by, I know I will have another opportunity to buy a blank one or one with a more basic/amateur faceup. However if the doll is rare and I've been searching for a while, I would buy it regardless of the faceup and wipe it.

2. Is the faceup artist's work rare or hard to obtain? If I know the artist is no longer in the hobby or difficult to get a commission slot from, I would be extremely hesitant to wipe their work. If the artist is still active in the hobby and selling dolls they painted, or open/accessible for commission, I'd feel more OK about wiping it since other collectors can still get the artist's work that way.

3. Is the cost of the faceup clearly added to the doll's price? If I know the typical value of the head, and the seller has obviously tacked on the price of a valuable faceup, I probably wouldn't buy it unless the head was really hard to find. I mean... why pay extra for something I'm literally going to erase from existence?!

4. Does the seller specifically ask the new owner not to wipe it? This isn't common, but I have seen listings along the lines of, "This faceup was painted by xyz famous artist and is very special, so I prefer a buyer who will not remove it." Everyone is welcome to their own opinions about faceups, but I think it would be totally rude to buy this doll and then wipe it.

In general I of course agree that one should do whatever they want with their dolls, and that includes buying. So while I don't think it's "wrong" to buy a doll and wipe its faceup, I do think it's nice to give someone else the opportunity to enjoy it!

 

I'm curious what people's thoughts are about just modifying a popular artist's face up. As an example, one of my dolls has a gorgeous face up, but I would like to make the eyebrows thicker. Or like maybe I wanted to add a birthmark or something?

Then later, if someone asked who did the face up, it might be awkward or offend the artist, if you gave them credit (what if they hate what you did to their face up) or if you did not give them credit.

I guess I could say "face up by xyz, modified by me" but it would still feel awkward.



@Ara (I hope I am replying to you correctly here. I was told to edit, and do not make multiple posts.) What you said really made a lot of sense to me and I think the best thing is for me to not modify the brows, and if I did, I would no longer credit the artist at all, because like you said, it could lead to more problems. Also that was funny what you said, turn them into "two censor bars!"

 

I have no qualms about removing a faceup if it isn’t what I want. I’ve removed artist faceups and old default faceups that I’m sure other people would hesitate to take off. I just think if it’s my doll I should be able to have it look the way I envision.

 

I was in that position a couple times as the artist, and tbh I hated nothing more than the person crediting me without mentioning they had modified it. As soon as you start drawing on top of my work, it pretty much ceases to be my work.
A finished face-up is part of my portfolio/like advertisement for my skill level at the point I painted it. If you modify it, it is not a truthful representation anymore, and might even potentially turn people off from commissioning me.

I'd argue though there is some layers to that. Adding a small birthmark or some shimmer, no big deal. But overpainting eyebrows and lashes is, because it is not only the hardest thing to do and how you gauge how good an artist is (and someone you want to commission), it's also often something that is like an artist's trademark. If someone turns my eyebrows with a million fine hairs into two black censor bars, I really don't wanna be held responsible for that

So either, do a full credit (originally painted by X, modified by me in this and that way) or just don't credit anymore (unless specifically asked). Just don't credit someone for something they didn't actually do.

 

Interesting question! I can't say it bothers me to do, but I also won't spend a lot extra on dolls because of the faceups so I haven't bought many with professional faceups in the end. If it's not what I want though, it goes.

I know I'm probably not that talented by some people's standards, but the fun of dolls for me is doing the faceups and the sewing... so it doesn't make sense to Not do it, y'know?

 

I don't see why you'd feel awkwrd - That says exactly what happened.

The artist didn't do the original faceup for you, with your requirements in mind. The person they did that for sold the doll on andif you, as the current owner, want to modify how the doll looks, well that's just part of the customisable nature of these dolls. That faceup as it was originally, has had it's moment and now it's been enhanced or modified for th enjoyment of the current owner.

Art is subjective, an artist should know that. What is right for one won't be right for another. By their nature thes dollls get restyled, wiped and repainted, modded. There should be no expectation by any faceup artist that their work will remain intact or unchanged for ever more when their chosesn field is known for it's bias towards customisation.

Teddy

 

If the face-up of the dorrie I bought does not match my characters, I do not hesitate to have them wiped off when sending their heads for face-up commissions. I had this situation on three of them: one brand new where I made a rookie mistake of ordering the head with face-up thinking that it is the same as the official pic but was different because the one on the website was just a one-off; and the other two are second hands that came with face-ups from previous owners.

 

If it's a company faceup, I don't really mind it, but I've definitely skipped buying heads with an artist's faceup that I've seen second hand
I always end up feeling bad, because what if someone really wants that artist's work? They're also usually priced higher, and since they usually don't suit the characters I have for the doll, it's not worth it to me to pay more for a head with a faceup I'm just going to remove than I would for a blank one.

I do like when artists offer to do that in listings! It's definitely made me consider some listings more, even if/though I ultimately decide a different sculpt suits a character better.

 

I always feel awkward when I feel like I have a long complicated answer to a prompt like this but once again I'm gonna chime in anyway

Main answer: nobody should feel bad about customizing their dolls, for most of us I think that's the whole point.
Buy what you want and then do what makes you happy with it. Sometimes I think the hobby has just become really weird form all of these personal choices feeling exposed and examined in the online social sphere.

Other personal notes: From my own artistic perspective... I've worked over a long time to master face-ups and I personally think I make great work. (I am not trying to drum up business because I am not in business) I am ultimately happiest with repainting my own dolls not for having "full control" or needing the bonding experience (because although I love repainting them I also find it really stressful), it's just that my work is how I want my dolls to look and nobody else's is the same. But I've started to feel really weird the last year or two, because everyone seems to keep wiping the work on anything I sell, when in years before there were some people who really enjoyed collecting my work or appreciating using it for their characters. Coupled with my own appreciation for other artist's work when it enters my collection (and it will be on second hand dolls that I will someday repaint when I do have the energy) I just feel a little alienated, like I am capable of liking the creativity of others for what it is more than anyone likes mine.

I type out that anecdote to drive home that even for hyper sensitive lonely people like myself, at least speaking for myself, I still think everyone should do what they want with their dolls! It's really nice if you see as the artist, that your old work finds new appreciation, but you quickly learn in this hobby that it's also just extremely disposable and that's the fact of life.

As for modifying other artist's work... I admit only with great shame that I have done it. I really really don't like to. I guess this is a matter of respect. And I don't feel comfortable with changing it much at all... because I feel that inevitably it creates a visual misrepresentation of their work and my own work, but for a working artist I feel like that could affect their business. I mean, I doubt it will when i do because I'm a reclusive wallflower nobody, but I wouldn't want to cause harm. I have a lovely faceup on a second hand doll that was painted by a pretty popular artist, but I find it totally flat for me in real life, and so I dusted pearl ex over the top as the bare minimum... I also would like it much more with the lips glossed which I haven't done yet. I just feel guilty. I would love to repaint them instead but I have kept it because I can love it for the character for a while and because I am so so so low on spoons.

 

Definitely just depends on the circumstances. If it’s a sculpt I’ve been wanting for a long time and have had difficulty getting ahold of and wanted a different face up, I think I would. But I feel like most sculpts for sale with artist face ups have the risk in mind already that the face up could be removed either way, so it shouldn’t be something to feel guilty over.

 

I have bought a sculpt and removed the artists faceup; it was a sculpt that is no longer being made and I had wanted it for a long time. It came with a unique faceup, body blushing and hand blushing but I only kept the hand blushing as a reminder of the old face up.

 

I'd rather buy a blank doll so I don't have to potentially feel guilty over wiping a faceup, especially if it's a doll that's easy to find! When it's a hard-to-find rare doll though? I say anything goes.

 

Usually, it doesn't bother me. There was one time when I sold a doll because she had an artist faceup I couldn't bring myself to wipe, even though she didn't fit my vision for the doll, but that was because she was a very popular doll and it would have significantly lowered her value. I wasn't feeling all that attached to her anyway because I was too scared of damaging her to play with her. Selling her was the best option for multiple reasons.

But most of the time, I'll wipe them. I think I'd consider myself somewhere in the middle as far as faceup skills--pretty far past beginner, and I have taken commissions from people I know, but I'm not on the same level as artists charging $150+ for their work. I might not be as skilled as the work I'm wiping, but it will make the doll feel like my own and I will enjoy them more. And likewise, if I sell a doll with my faceup and the new owner wipes it, I don't feel bad at all about it. This hobby is all about customizing, your doll should feel like they're yours!

 

I say don’t feel guilty or hesitant, if the faceup doesn’t fit the character then do one yourself if you want to! Sometimes it can totally expand your love for a doll when you make them look just how you imagine them to look like, commission or not, I say that a doll should look how you want it to.

 

I'll pass up a secondhand doll if they're charging for the face up. I'm not in a mood to haggle and I don't wanna buy something I'm just gonna wipe off. I can't bond unless I did the face up

 

For one doll, I did not consider it for long, especially after I got her in person. I'm glad I like it because the sculptor did the face up. She has never said if she's retired, but I think she hasn't made a doll in over 6 years.

For another doll, I want to wipe it because it's a factory face-up and not the best colors for her. But, I'm still not sure if I'll keep her.

 

Me too - I'm usually not interested in the facup, I'm buying for the sculpt. I get that they might to get back some of the money they put into the doll, but charging for the faceup must reduce their potential buyer base to just the ones ho like and would want to keep that faceup. Just because they chose to spend out on that artist and that faceup doesn't mean the net owner would.

Teddy

 

Unless it's a face-up I find dreadful, I'd keep the artist face-up. Sometimes the face-up is what attracted me and made me want to buy the doll/doll head.

A few years ago I did remove an artist face-up, because the doll and sculpt were more important to me. Also, this artist didn't mind face-ups being removed if a doll was sold on to a new owner.

 

I tend to keep whatever face-up the doll comes with, because I am lazy and don't want to repaint if I don't have to. Plus I'm not very good at doing them right now! I think I've had to wipe 2 artist face-ups, but that was because these were older, second-hand dolls and the face-ups had been damaged (chipping, etc). I hated to do it because they were very nicely done, but damage is damage.

There was a doll that was rare at the time (Bluefairy Tiny Fairy Lin) that I really liked the company default face-up, but I had a chance to pick one up that a Polish artist (Shaiel, IIRC) had done. She doesn't fit in at all with most of my other Bluefairy dolls, but when I saw the doll in person, the artist's face-up was so utterly charming that I just couldn't wipe it. I don't know if she's still around, but if shipping overseas wasn't so expensive, I would commission something from her, her style was so unique. Years later, I did find another Lin with the company default face-up that I liked.

 

I see this sort of question in a lot of niche hobbies - altering a thing that might have a specific kind of value due to whatever detail. Taking in a vintage dress, altering a lolita dress to fit a specific body, updating a house from a specific era that has details from when it was originally built, cutting up a vintage quilt to make something new, etc.

I think unless that item has a true historical value and needs to be preserved for future generations, no. Don't mess with it. But in a grand majority of cases those items need to be in the collections of a museum for a professional conservationist to look after.

Otherwise? If it's yours, do what you want. There's this idea that we have to hold onto the value of a thing in case we want to sell it later, or god forbid you upset the greater hobby community because you did a thing that made you happy with the item that you purchased. The community doesn't own it, you do. I'm not going to say I wouldn't be sad to see a face up from a particular artist wiped, but maybe you can't get that doll again because it's rare but you want to keep the sculpt. The reason doesn't really matter at the end of the day - you should be able to do what you want with your dolls.

 

When I send my doll to an artist, usually the same one, I describe how I want that face up be so unless I really don't like at all I won't remove it.

 

It depends. I purchased a doll specifically because it had an Angeltoast face-up: she's a Fairyland Minifee Chloe, which feels a bit eponymous for this doll + artist face-up combo. So I specifically wanted it.
For most other dolls, if it's a highly desired face-up artist, especially one who no longer offers commissions, I won't buy the doll. I try hard to avoid limited release dolls (getting harder these days), because I just can't bring myself to alter/remove something that could be highly desired by someone else.
Company face-ups, however, are wiped without a second thought.

 

Painting a doll's face is a way for me to connect with her, so I prefer shopping for blank faces. If I buy second hand, sometimes I have to take the faceup off, although it's better than the one I paint. I have an exact image of my future doll in my head and try to translate it into reality. Sometimes it doesn't happen right away. But I take the connection as a journey.

 

I’m right here with this same issue. Recently bought a secondhand head that I was searching for a while, it has a face up by the previous owner (the seller). They even said they don’t mind what I do with the face up. Face up is absolutely not what I want for that sculpt, but at the same time the it’s gorgeous, great piece of art. I love it although I don’t need it. I know I will wipe it at some point but meanwhile I want to enjoy it to the fullest, take as many photos as I can. Play with it. You know “squeeze the lemon before you throw it”. Would be nice to hear from you all what would you do or what had you done to enjoy a face up that ultimately will go.

 

I usually ordered the doll in the first place because I loved the artist face up. Plus I am no artist so I am not removing nothing. The only way my dollies will end up with a non artist creator faceup is if I mess up the original somehow or the doll came blank because the artist refused to do me a faceup.

 

For other people, yeah wipe that doll. It's yours now.

For me personally, I'd say 90% of the time, I'd be totally fine with wiping a doll and having a new faceup done. I've already done it with the company faceup on one of my dolls. Very pretty, very much not my style.

In some circumstances, I think I'd hesitate to buy a doll altogether because of the faceup. I passed up on a doll I would have loved to own because of this issue. The faceup was so beautiful, but it just wasn't my style. I think I would eventually have been able to wipe it after a few months, but the seller description made it very clear how much they loved the doll and were only selling it because they needed the money. I decided to just wait for a blank doll or a doll that was being sold for another reason. It'd break my heart knowing that seller would probably see their beloved doll they never wanted to sell wiped like that.

 

I don't see myself buying a doll with a famous artists faceup, unless it was a hard to find sculpt that I really wanted. I don't see paying extra for a doll that comes with a faceup. For me it would be paying extra money for something I am going to end up wiping off. If the artist was really super famous (e.g. Valerie Zeitler), I probebly wouldn't buy the doll, because I wouldn't want to devalue the art.

I have no problems wiping off faceups if I don't like them, no matter who did them. If I have a vision for a doll, I want to paint how I want the doll to look and not how someone else sees the doll. My faceup skills are mid level, and I would still wipe off an amazing faceup and replace it with my mediocre faceup, if that amazing faceup was not how I want my doll to look.

I try to purchase blank dolls most of the time, but if a doll does come with a company faceup, I tend to wipe or modify the company faceups. Out of all my BJD's the only two company faceups I have left alone are my Dollzone Gray, and my Ringdoll Lucifer. I like my Dollzone Gray's faceup so much, that I am thinking of getting him a second head to modify. I don't want to mess with the original face, and he came full set, but lately I have been wanting to make a few changes including mods to the face, so I am thinking a blank face, rather then wiping the current one, because I do love the original faceup.

 

On the other hand if they need the money and can't sell the doll because of a face up it really makes their situation harder. Everywhere people are complaining that it's becoming increasingly difficult to sell second hand dolls because of the economic situation, now add the face up reason too.

 

I'm sure it's been tough enough having to list the doll. Wiping the faceup because it might make the sale go faster is probably very difficult for them to do, especially if you're holding onto any hope of some miracle happening that lets you keep your doll after all. I think the dolls with the most love put into them (custom faceups, custom mods, bundled with a bunch of accessories that add to the price but not necessary the appeal to buyers) sit on the secondhand market the longest.

 

Unless it's someone's first faceup, worn out, or very generic/simple company work, I'd have issues wiping. It's still someone's work and I respect that aspect in dolls enough that I'd want to keep it as-is. When I look at second hand dolls I consider the faceup as well and I'm definitely set on keeping what I buy.
I do not shell characters, though, and I am more into an adoption mindset, so maybe if I had a different approach I'd see this matter differently.

 

I’ve been back and forth on this one. I have kept artist faceups mostly because I can’t be bothered to wipe them and I don’t think my own faceup skills are the best so I’d rather keep a good faceup. I am not a characters person at all so I don’t need a character specific faceup. However I do have a very specific aesthetic I like so sometimes some faceups just wouldn’t work for it.

I have recieved a few dolls with faceups by a few more well known artists including one that I was very dissapointed by as it came scratched but it was so heavily painted I wasn’t sure how easy it was to wipe I ended up selling that one on. One other doll I do regret wiping as the artist stopped painting dolls a long time ago but I wasn’t sure if I liked the faceup or not at the time. I’ve had tattoos like this too where I’ve not been divided whether to cover them up or not (I did have some of my first ones covered LOL)

But mostly it depends for me I have a few dolls with beautiful company faceups including a nearly 20 year old LUTs faceup in remarkable condition. I also have been out of the hobby for awhile and I am not sure who I would comission anymore