Ring Doll Teens

I'm rather amused by those going "ITS A COMPLETE COPY!" because, honestly, it isn't. Far from it. This is why in my original post I said that it was stylized after. The clothes, while the cut is similar, is completely different and patterned. The chainsaw is modern and from one of their previous limited releases. Grell never has a bunny, he has voodoo dolls of other kuroshitsuji characters. It's quite obvious that ringdoll took some rather lovely (IMO) artistic liberties with the characters design.

There are far more accurate copies of characters out there on the market. Both fullsets, and not. There have already been debate threads devoted to "copyright images" when it comes to characters and companies reproducing clothes, dolls, molds, etc in the likeness of a pre-designed character, so this really isn't the place for it.


As for the RD resin, its really lovely in person. I don't know why its shiny in some of their picures.

 

I would like to pass on a message from Ringdoll:

Thank you everyone for supporting RingDoll!

We would like to state some facts regarding our newest release Judges. Our style designer used our existing RTB09 head sculpt (was used for Spencer), and RTbody-2 for his body. The concept of Judges, including the studio photography is heavily influenced by the Japanese comic series Kuroshitsuji (黑执&#20107 character Grell. We designed this doll as homage to one of the Anime series beloved by everyone here at RingDoll.

With regarding to Copyrights infringement issues that some doll lovers have brought to our attention, we already did our preliminary consultation with our legal department and third party Copyrights law professionals. We are quite confident that our creation is and should be considered original art. There is no ambiguity whether our doll design is legal or not.

However, we realize that such design can easily lead to unnecessary controversies and negative publicity. We apologize if this has caused any discomfort for our doll lovers out there. We will definitely be more cautious with the future designs to avoid such controversy.

Sincerely,

RingDoll Team

 

If someone is still interested, I have Ashford from RingDoll and here's his facebook http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/profile.php?id=100001701613383
if you wantto see some pictures of him!

 

RD service guys said that Chai is a new head sculpture, so I think that one should be a new doll with nice dress. lovely @!@
And BTW, it seems that RD never announce Judges is a "new doll". I saw their facebook they said Judges is "new style" and Chai "the new doll".
I did not get the new resin for my Aug PAN @#$%&*%#@$
They said the new RD Grown-ups would be the first this month and the other doll will use new no shiny resin. The shiny one would be still available for other customer requests.

 

This has probably been mentioned, but Ringdoll posted yesterday on their Facebook:

Thanks so much for clarifying.

 

Chirutsurando- thank you so much for sharing the link of the pics! I like him in the white wig! I'm always glad to see pics, as I am very excited about getting my Pan and there are so few pics of the RD Teens on DoA. And it provided a welcome release from the debate...*sigh*

 

I love Judges and totally agree with o01101011 on this one. Copyright laws are different in every country and they obviously looked into it from their message to SakuraLee... People on here are far too fast to flame companies for something they don't even know about. Whats the difference with someone buying a Grell cosplay from someone who obviously is making money from it and I can bet a LOT of people have bought cosplay outfits. @_@

Seriously, not seeing an issue here.. With some of the peoples comments on here it sounds like they're the one personally suffering from it.. News flash, not your series. If you're that worried then send Yana Toboso and the people who are involved with the anime a letter and see what they do about it.. Probably not much other than being flattered.

I bought a Sebastian cosplay outfit and wore it in September, so sue me... This is such a grey area and people don't seem to understand that.. American laws don't rule everywhere ya know?

Sorry, kind of a rant but people irk me who act so high and mighty about something which they obviously have zero knowledge of ¬_¬; Not saying I have a large amount of knowledge on it either, but enough to know that it's not as simple as some people are trying to make out.

On the bright side, I love what they're done with him and if I wasn't only collecting MSD's then I'd snap him up in a heartbeat. PLUS best Grell dollie I've seen out there XD

 

I have to agree with you, Mad_Hatter. Best dollie Grell I've soon too. I'm totally snatching a Judges up, though when he gets to me I'd be modding him up a bit to fit my own character. It's really cool that a Grell-esqe doll will work as a really great base to develop other looks.

 

Kinda makes me wish I were still into SD's XD I'm jealous. It's nice to see that some people can look beyond a wig and some glasses and yes, he makes a gorgeous base doll.

 

I guess some people sometimes forget that, really, all dolls are essentially just bases. Fullset or not. You know? You get a doll, customize it to your own personal tastes, and then suddenly it's not that doll that's just one of many, but your doll that's completely unique and special.

 

The people who are against it aren't all saying that it's illegal. They're saying that it's wrong, which is very different. The idea of using someone else's design and ideas to make a profit is what is upsetting, even if there is no legal recourse against the company from the actual makers of the series. I suppose that the reason people are getting actually upset is that they can imagine what it would be like to create something, and look online one day and find someone else selling it.

 

That's understandable, but it's still just a miniature cosplay of the character. If the peeps behind the manga had a problem with it, people wouldn't be able to go out and buy cosplay outfits of those characters and whatnot. That would have be considered wrong, too, since it is someone else taking another person's design and selling it for profit, be it limited or not. It kinda seems like a double standard if humans selling cosplay stuff for other humans is okay, but not for chunks of resin.

 

Actually, I think that it's wrong for clothing companies to make cosplay stuff too. I understand doing it for yourself, or doing one or two for a friend if you're recouping the supplies, but not when mass-produced for a profit. I consider that just as bad.

(Not all of us the people against this are hypocrites, you know. )

 

Haha, yeah, I know not everyone is a hypocrite, and I'm really sorry if I made it seem like I was accusing anyone of that, I just wanted to point it out. Personally, I don't really like cosplay stuff either. For humans or dolls. But (and this might be hypocritical of me) it's not going to stop me from going out and getting the things I need/want for a original character that just so happens to be part of a cosplay. If that makes sense.

 

This line just made me laugh;

Personally, I'm getting pretty sick of seeing Black Butler everywhere, whether blatant copy or suggested, and cant wait until it fades away like all other fads. What most concerns me with doll companies now more often ripping off anime/manga series is that someone will accidentally buy a doll/clothing thinking it's neat looking without realising that hey, that's from a anime/manga and that you'll now be associated with it. THIS is my main issue.

 

It's not the doll company's fault that the customer is ignorant about the resemblance of their products to something else.

 

I haven't got a doll. [ Planning on getting Spencer at some point.

But I'm waiting on two outfits, [ one from Ringdoll themselves, one from a user in the MP. ]

Will tell ya'll the quality of the clothing once they come. I just hope they fit my boy!

 

I like the doll, but then again I'm a Grell fan. Whether or not this is wrong, or any different then fans doing it, for profit or not, doesn't really matter to me. But for all we know the design team liked the look of the character and thought others would also like to have a doll like Grell.

 

Like the concept, don't like the resin. I think Grell should be a little more smirky. The Judges face-up is too tame. Xd

I too find it amusing that people are angry about this cosplay while IOS Osiris is hailed as beautiful. IMHO the Osiris sculpt is far closer to Sebastian than this Judges is to Grell.

Also some fanarts and doujins are for profit, there are some that fetch quite a price. I see this as cosplay more than anything and if you look all around the doll hobby and anime/manga in general, you see a bunch of items that are exact replicas of anime/manga/pop culture stuff (ie Vocaloid). Yes some are hand made, but most people make it for profit, not only because they want to pay homage to the anime/manga/etc.

 

I love him, but I will not be getting him, becuase his outfit is not exact to the anime, the most I will be getting would be the nude doll, red wig and glasses. then sewing the outfit together to get my Griel.

I like the chainsaw, but it's not exact to the anime, however it's given me the idea of creating the prop for him.

He is a wonderful doll, and I love Griel. RD has certainly given me an idea on how to bring Griel home using Spencer as a base.

 

I have no plans to get another boy, but I think he's pretty cute. And just for comparison...

Angell Studio put out Lucifer and Gabriel, blatantly styled and taken from Kaori Yuki's "Angel Sanctuary" manga. They were pulled in their original form and re-released.

Nobility Doll made Edward Moon and Wolfman which are a blatantly styled from Twilight. They were also pulled and will be re-released.

Yes they're trying to draw more people to buy their product by basing on something already popular. At least they admitted to it and it's between the company owning the copyright and Ringdoll as to if anything actually comes from it. Companies want to make money. Think of it the next time you buy a purse that looks suspiciously like a Coach handbag or a pair of heels that look like Jimmy Choo's.

Personally, I think the glasses and bowtie are so adorable. I might have to get the outfit at least.

 

as far as RingDoll have the permission, as seams to have it, i don't see nothing wrong with it, i second your opinion about purse and shoes Kama.

 

I won't address the copyright question here other than correcting a misunderstanding about the Ringdoll head designer. I know a bit about him and he is a HUGE fan of asian graphic novels. He cosplays himself. I do not think he considered this milking a fad, he really likely meant it as a Homage.

I WILL comment on the resin, however. I have a Ringdoll Pan and a few extra heads. I don't find the resin too shiny. The shiniest resin I have dealt with is KazeKidz resin. I took the shine off with a light spray of MSC. The Ringdoll resin has a nice surface, and I have had no problem facing up the heads. I really like their product. Also about clothing, I have Ringdoll clothes & some Marshpants and some other trousers made for him without a fit problem. I have several SD13 tops from Nightfall and Cheerydoll and all fit him very well.

 

Im so upset about ringdoll this time..I mean, if anyone love Judges or his outfits, because she or he knew Grell before or maybe not, then buy him. really be attracted by Judges,Ringdoll get profit,but not because their own design..Maybe that's why ringdoll creat Judges so like Grell,Grell is kind of popular! Then they can sell more... Oh,sad..I dont wanna guess that Ringdoll is already not so imaginative to creat their new doll using their own design! I dont want to see that Judges is sold by like Grell not himself..

 

There are major differences between Grell and Judges. The outfit is very different when you take the time to look at it and consider it. Judges is heavily stylized after Grell, yes, but he IS NOT Grell. I think people are missing this major point and creating a bugger fuss than needs to be done.

 

Honestly, I like Judges not because he looks like Grell but because of his shadowy faceup and his teeth! Sure, I have a MNM Grell head kicking around but I honestly had no idea who Grell was before I saw that MNM head on the marketplace. It's not like Ringdoll created a new head for Judges. To me, it's just Spencer with a more attractive faceup (really didn't like Spencer's faceup).

 

To me this discussion is a no sense, i mean RingDoll have the permession, so to me it's useless to still going on debating if it's legit or not, if you like the doll then buy it, if not quit simply...

 

Well i find a bit unfair,since RingDoll it's not the only companies that went often to take inspiration from manga universe,to flame against RingDoll company only,whos made this attack clearly can't stand the idea of a Grell doll,whatever i don't even know nothing about this character before this debating, but find acceptable other similiraties from other companies dolls for other characters from this manga...
It's even simply:
You like it? Buy it
You don't likeit? Don't buy it.

And by the way if RingDoll would ever copying a character why not create a new mold face,or make limited doll?

IOS made similiar choice,legend du temps made it,Angell Studio made it,DollMore made it..i really don't get how a debating like this simply could be useful...
If RingDoll went into copyright infringments well also could be fair to mention the other companies that did the same longer before this company did.

 

I don't get the point why be so shocked, simply few other company did in past, and still do continuosly.
To me debatinng it's useless, as all the comany taking inspiration from something else manga expecially, to me it's worse to use the same shape of long nailed male hands, or some body connector, or joints.
I agree with the last part of your comment Idrysfinn you like it buy him, you dislike him quit to but, simply.

 

Well... since none of us are experts in international law (unless someone has a degree and hasn't told us about it), I'd say that speculating on whether or not said Judges is a copyright infringement or not is just so much hot air.

Having gotten that out of my system, I have to say that I pulled up the picture this morning, said "oh HELLO! Grell!" and proceeded to enjoy him a great deal. He's wonderful. I will enjoy looking at him for what he is, which is a really lovely fanart sort of doll, and leave the legalities to the people who actually know where to buy or rent a clue.

(and yes, I've been to law school, but I certainly can't give you an answer on this one...)

 

When i saw Judges for the first time i thinked:
Oh my the glasses are what i need for GenZo!
I really didn't know who Grell was and still i can't remember the manga since honestly i'm not big fan of its,nor i'm much more into its.

So i agree with you,it's just so much hot air.

 

Baakay the fist time i look at him i say, oh same it's just 60cm doll, but how cute is his teeth!

 

Yep, he's adorable. And I'm a sucker for a redhead, too. I love his faceup.

The "actual" Grell is a whole lot more over-the-top than this doll (which is why I like the character; he's just unforgettable). Visually, he has HUGE pointy teeth as opposed to the Judges' little ones. I like this Ringdoll version a lot. Buuut I'll just have to be content with looking at other peoples' Judges since I've reached the bottom of my dolly-purchase funds for awhile

 

yeahh i love his teeth such adorable, unfotunately he's not the size i'm looking for, otherwise he'll be an my list!

 

I'm not going to comment about how "right" or "wrong" the doll is - that's for everyone to decide for themselves. Ringdoll clearly based Judges off a copyrighted character but, to their credit, at least they're not denying it. (Remember Dollmore and their Komadori Ciel outfit and how they were insistent that their copy was based off of "My Fair Lady" instead of Kuroshitsuji?)

But I do find it odd how many people seem to be disconnecting "fanwork" and "profit." There were a lot of earlier comments that Ringdoll aren't fans or making a fan-homage because they're making profit. I can't see why it's not a combination of both. The definition of fanwork does not include "non-profit."

Take a look a Comiket and the popular doujinshi circles -- they are absolutely making profit, especially when their 1000 print doujinshi sell out within an hour! Or even look at conventions in the US. I've done Artist Alley for years and I can tell you that there's tons of profit to be made from fanwork. Does that mean the fanwork isn't a labor of love and I'm just making fanart to infringe on copyrights and profit from the popularity of a series? Definitely not. But it's silly to think that the 200+ Artist Alley tables at Anime Expo are all there to "break even."

Ringdoll -- as they've said on their facebook comment -- made Judges because the doll creation team love Kuroshitsuji. Yes, they could be lying and just want to profit from a popular series, but they could also be telling the truth. And if they are, why are they suddenly judged on a different level than an Artist Alley artist selling Grell fanart prints? If you think about it, the profit markup for the prints might be even more than the mark up for dolls. It costs about $1.50 to print a 8"x12" at Costco. At a convention, that same print might be sold anywhere from $5 to $25 depending on the artists' skill and popularity. That's a 333% to 1,667% markup. I sincerely doubt that Ringdoll has as high a profit margin.

 

props mhikaru, very props. though some fanworks don't roll in the dough, there's others that do. I see nothing wrong in what Ringdoll did just like I see nothing wrong with selling fanart WITH credit of character creation to _________.

 

Agreeing with mhikaru's comment.

Besides Dollmore's Komodori outfit for Ciel Phantomhive, there was also Immortality of Soul's Osiris, who is very, very clearly based upon Sebastian Michaelis. Furthermore, IoS is also releasing a Claude Faustus sculpt in the (hopefully) near future. Add in the fact that La Légende de Temps has a head sculpt that's based off of a Hetalia Axis Powers character...

The fact that doll companies have done so and will continue to do so--the basing of doll sculpts upon characters that they like. Furthermore, it's not just doll companies that do so. As mhikaru has said, artists in Artist Alley during conventions do the same thing and do make a profit off of their commissions, and I also have a writer that I'm a fan of. She published a book and readily admits that Sebastian and Ciel make an appearance within her published (and therefore profitable) work.

 

I wonder if they'll be making any other Kuroshitsuji-inspired dolls?

 

I saw the new doll of Ringdoll on their facebook called Chai just now http://www.facebook.com/ringdoll?v=...9&set=a.168103796563821.31873.146868812020653. They said he was a new head ^ ^

 

I don't get this whole argument that it's fine for Ringdoll to be "inspired" by Grell just because there are other companies doing the same thing. Just because other people are doing something wrong doesn't make it right. It may not be a carbon copy but it's definitely waaaayyyyyy too similar to be just an inspiration rather than an imitation.

 

My two:
it's not thta RingDoll doing something right just beacause other companies did.What i'm trying to say is that whos complain about it should be fair,i don't see why only complain about RingDoll while no one did it with other companies.

I'm also quite disappointed that RingDoll putting any update on facebook,i'm not used ti this and i badly wish to see any update on their web site...

 

Just get an update from twitter via facebook from RingDoll about Judges:

 

God... Ringdoll claimed to discontiued the Judges just now on facebook. cannot find the name on their website either * *

 

such sad about this.....

 

So finally the complainers obtained what the badly wish.

 

I think this is kind of a shame, honestly... I mean, no one should have the right to copy anyone's intellectual property, but it really was a neat head. You don't often see an interesting expression like that on a BJD. I think they could rebrand him with a different face-up and clothes and make quite a lovely and original doll.

 

Honestly, I think it's lame that everyone got so up in arms about this doll. He was cool and it would have been nice for people to buy this doll as a nice item to add to a collection.
I mean, I don't get why people are up in arms over this but no one seems to have a problem with the seemingly hundreds of celebirty, musician and anime character Minimee orders going on in the Marketplace.
Just seems a tad hypocritical to me.

 

The head is the Spencer sculpt that had already been released.

 

Oh, he is? ... In that case, I guess my point is moot.

 

I honestly don't understand some of you got so upset over this. Yes, Judges was heavily influenced by Grell's design, but he is not Grell by any means, so to jump all over the company saying "It's an exact replica!" is really just a load of bull. Let's break down the facts here:

First of all- this is not a New Sculpt, it's an EXISTING sculpt with another faceup, meaning that no one went "OMG! That doll -Spencer- looks like Grell!" and had a hissyfit when he was first released, meaning that they didn't just sculpt a head to look Exactly like Grell because the Spencer sculpt already existed. Has no one seen the DIM MNM heads that have been sculpted recently? I'm guessing not. Shall I retrieve pictures so we can see them side by side?

On the right is a DIM MNM head that was sculpted to look Exactly like Grell, on the right is a photograph of Ringdoll's Spencer, the sculpt they used as a base for building the Judges doll. Now- does Spencer look anything like Grell in the face? No, no he doesn't. Need I point out the differences? The size and shape of the eyes, the shape and size of the nose, the size of the mouth, the size of the lips, the size of the teeth, the shape of the chin, the point in his ears, Spencer has chubbier cheeks, and Grell's face is more long and lean. These are two completely different faces.

Now then- let's talk Clothing, accessories, and faceup, through which Ringdoll took Artistic Liberties to recreate a beloved character. Here is a comparison of the outfits side-by-side:

The outfit on the Left is a recreation of Grell in Pullip form (duh), and on the right is Ringdoll Judges' outfit. Let's go through the comparison one more time, shall we? First we'll start with similarities- black slacks, red overcoat, white dress shirt, red and white striped bowtie, and black gloves. Who's to say someone couldn't have come up with this combination on their own? I'm sure it's been done before, just not in an obscenely popular anime. Now then, down to the differences- we'll start with the feet and work our way up.
Grell's boots are covered by the slacks he is wearing, whereas Judges is wearing a pair of long riding boots that come up Above the knee (not to mention, these were boots that Ringdoll was already selling prior to the release of this doll). Grell's pants are plain black, while Judges' are two-toned near the pockets at the waist; there is also a chain on one of his hips that is not present in Grell's character design. As for the vests, not only are they two completely different styles, they are also different colors. Grell's is Collared and black/Gray and Judges' is kind of an orangy brown with a pattern on it. Grell's white dress shirt have ruffled cuffs on the sleeves, and at the collar, whereas Judges' are "normal". Grell is wearing a tied bow, whereas Judges is wearing a bowtie. Grell is wearing the butler cuffs on his arms, Judges is not. And the Jackets, well, they don't even look the same at all. Grell's is simple- bright red with a stand-up collar, whereas Judges' coat is much more complex- not only is it Lined, it has two different fabric patterns on the outside, it's slit to the hip on both sides, the collar lays flat against the body, and it has that quirkly little belt-bow thing that could tie in the front if you wanted it to.
The chainsaw, was made available prior to the release of this doll, with the release of Dark Jessica, as was the Bunny doll. The chainsaw does not look similiar to Grell's, as has been said by many fans, and Grell plays with Voodoo dolls, not plush bunnies. Yes, they gave him the red glasses, but that is one of a few things that were accurately portrayed. As far as the faceup is concerned, yes, it looks nice, yes, the eyebrows are quirked in "Grellesque" fashion, but it still does not make this doll look exactly like Grell, and could not no matter how hard Ringdoll tries. Why? Because the sculpt is not Grell, it's Spencer as an interpretation of Grell. This is not "milking a fad", and as has been said before, it was a cool way for Ringdoll to show the potential of their dolls.

There are so many other good points that have been brought up in this thead as well, but I can't address them all, so the one I will address, or rather reiterate, is this- other companies have made BB and Angel Sanctuary dolls before with likenesses that are much closer than this doll, but no one threw a fit about them, until this doll came out. So what changed? Why is it OK for one company to do it, but not another?

As for those who are getting worked up about Ringdoll making profit off of something that they took the time and created nonetheless, I will requote mhikaru, since she illustrated it perfectly:

But I do find it odd how many people seem to be disconnecting "fanwork" and "profit." There were a lot of earlier comments that Ringdoll aren't fans or making a fan-homage because they're making profit. I can't see why it's not a combination of both. The definition of fanwork does not include "non-profit."

I know that I'm a little late in putting in my two cents, since the doll has already been taken off of the website, but those who are outright accusing Ringdoll of ONLY doing this to profit off of it have gotten me enraged enough to say something. Being one of those Artist Alley folks myself, I KNOW where they're coming from- anyone here in this community that has ever made a doll to the likeness of a character (be it someone else's or their own) has to know where they're coming from. They want to create something to share with others that they can see and recognize, and connect with.

The greatest thing about this hobby is that every time a doll is made, it means that someONE, someWHERE had a vision (or an interpretation), and someone brought that vision/interpretation to life- some for themselves, some for others. And the fact of the matter is that if it weren't for those "others" that bring their visions to life for everyone else, well, this community, this hobby, would be nothing without those visionaries. Yes, Grell was not their vision, but he is certainly a character that many people love, and I'm sure that Ringdoll felt that they could connect to more of their supporters because both parties know and love him.

I thank Ringdoll for trying to bring one of their most beloved characters to life, and I thank them even more for trying to share him with everyone else. Unfortunately, thanks to a few sour people, and Ringdoll's utmost DESIRE to please all of their supporters, that chance for them to share that love with us, is now gone. I have no doubt in my mind that Ringdoll has a deep love for all of the dolls that they produce from their own imagination- if they didn't have a passion for their work, their dolls would not be as beautiful as they are, but I will not hold it against them for trying to share something that they love with the doll community, and I hope that no one else will either.

 

I hope they release at least the Judges outfit seperately, given that they must have already had quite a few produced for the fullsets. They put so much work into the design to just drop it in the bin and not sell any of it.

 

Sanctioned: Please, let's not pretend that a couple of tiny details being subtly different ("oh my god, the tie is striped in the wrong direction and the coat has a slightly different pattern, that means it's TOTALLY NOT GRELL") changes the entire situation. That's ridiculous. You can't say that doll isn't intended to be Grell Sutcliffe, as close a copy as they could get, with just a couple of embellishments.

I also find it ridiculous, that you expect that if you're upset over one total copy doll, omg you have to have a) been in doll fandom long enough, b) been vocal enough, c) been into the fandoms other companies have copied enough to recognize the characters, and d) felt the need to speak up against every single other copy doll ever or else you're a Big Bad Hypocrite. For one thing, I have no issue with dolls inspired by characters if they're done on a limited run, like Minimee and, yes, the IOS Sebastian doll (to me, this would say less "we want to make a profit off this popular thing" and more "we love this character and want to make a doll of them, but we can't just make one not for sale, we have to justify the expense of using the facilities, etc." also, it's much less of a copyright issue / leans more towards personal use etc. and "feels" less wrong if there's a very limited run). Secondly, I simply don't have the time or inclination to police every single freaking doll to come out on the market to see if it's omg a copy of something I'm not familiar with in any way. Finally, I wouldn't recognize a character from Angel Sanctuary if you beat me over the head with a Kaori Yuki artbook.

Personally, I'm pretty glad that Ringdoll took the doll off their site. I think it's really very awesome that they listened to what people were saying, heard their objections, and actually listened. A lot of companies wouldn't have done that.

 

Sad they felt FORCED to take it down because of certain people getting on their high horse about it..There must have been a lot of hard work behind him too.. Man, some people are lame and need to chillax once in a while, they may burst a blood vessel ...

I'm so sad for Ringdoll.. I wish they could get direct permission and rub it in peoples faces.

 

Luckily, it looks like all the accessories and clothing are still available. I'm sad because Spencer is a very underrated doll in appearance, and much more visually pleasing and beautiful in person, and this would have been great exposure for this particular Ringdoll sculpt.

 

That is hypocritical right there. We have no idea how many IOS is going to make and either way they will be making a profit because they're selling it. EVEN for limited runs, the companies still make money, I don't know where this no profit thing is coming from in this hobby as there's tons of money going around when buying dolls. I don't think the materials+facilities cost as much as the $1k+ that people pay for dolls. Maybe not AS much profit, but there's profit there. They wouldn't be producing the dolls without some profit. :\

If IOS wasn't using the Kuroshitsuji bandwagon, they would have based their new sculpt on something that's old or not as popular (aka please make Terra He dolls T^T). The fact that they made Osiris right when America finally has rights to the anime and Funi streams the anime legally online... there's a connection there. >_>

Again, how is it any different from the people selling cosplay items? How is it any different from the many companies selling EXACT COPIES of anime/manga/etc items to create a complete cosplay doll? They're still making money, don't kid yourself. There's no way they're just making stuff for a hobby and to sell anything that doesn't make profit would be... kinda dumb of the company.

And if you look at the sculpts, Spencer looks nothing like Grell whereas the Osiris sculpt looks just like Sebastien.

 

candy-coated: I don't feel it's hypocritical, but you're free to look at it that way. *shrug* It's also my understanding that Minimee and IOS aren't offering fullset dolls (with outfits, eyes, wigs, etc.), which also changes how I see it - a lot of my reaction to Ringdolls' "Grell" was seeing the pictures that were deliberately set to look like images from the actual anime, along with the outfit, wig, even the props being the same. If it were just the faceup or whatever, I probably would have been less upset by it, but seeing the whole thing just gave me a very visceral "OH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS" reaction, you know?

To be honest, I'm not saying that what Minimee or IOS do isn't wrong, either. I said I'm not personally as bothered by it (but then, who really has the energy or inclination to get intensely bothered by stuff from doll companies they've never even remotely considered buying from in the first place?). That doesn't mean it's necessarily right. And I'll admit readily that part of that may simply be that I don't find Minimee sculpts to be aesthetically pleasing, and usually don't think they look like the characters they're supposed to be in the first place, lol. That's my personal opinion. And I only saw the IOS Sebastian/"Osiris" once when my bff showed him to me while we were watching Kuroshitsuji for the first time, so, yeah.

As far as the profit angle: The way I see it is... most cosplay makers/sellers I know (I'm not talking about professionals or whatever, I don't buy from them or really look at/for them) only charge enough to make a profit based on how much work they put into it - in other words, they charge for materials+time, which is an important distinction... yes, it's a profit, but it's not for the sake of profit, it's reimbursing them for the time and effort expended to make the item. What I mean re: the limited run dolls is that yes, they are making a profit, but certainly not as much of one as if the dolls were standard and always available, and I see it more as justifying not only the costs of making/producing one, but the time spent by the creator who could be working on other projects for the company, and so on... you know, I'm American, so there's this mindset that if you're doing something on company time, you would probably have to justify why or how it would be useful to the company for you to be doing it. That might not actually be the case, but it's kind of how I look at it.

It's a lot less the profit thing and more the whole... making the whole doll like that, dressing it like that, with all those props and everything... Ringdoll could easily have made a doll inspired by Grell without making a doll that looked just like him down to the coat and the glasses and the picture setting, you know? IDK, it bugged me a lot. :\


ETA: and god, could I say "you know?" any more? lol.

 

Im sorry that i always think that Judges is a copy from Grell and l'll never change my thoughts.
Now judges is not continued anymore only his outfits..so if ringdoll really think Judges's style is designed by themselves,
they can always insist on this and sell him.Just like i insist that Judges is a copy,but someone insist that he's not..
But ringdoll give up, actually I think they themselves already realized they were not doing the right thing.
they did copy Grell at least on glass,faceup,hair,teeth..They knew that.

 

roserising I'm really sad that Judges is yet discontinued and was not even give to this doll the pale chance to go on sale.
I'm sadly have to remember that you pointed out your opinion several times negatively about this doll even in the news thread?Should i?
What i think is that is sad that some companies are fingered as unfair,or are accused to makes copied dolls,while,and that is obvious,evberyone,even the cosplayer, do that without been badmouthing.. while others simply not...that is wide unfair,imo.
What i mean is that your point iof view is well known,i think differently as you.

But again Judges is discontinued now,i'm not happy,but the next time i will see in my opinion a similiar dolls to another i will pointed out,just for intellectual honesty.

To me RingDoll give up only because so many complains about Judges,it's like waving white flag in surrender.
IMO even every single cosplayer that make profits using manga characters costume reproduction is violating the copyright.