Rule Update Mirodoll banned from DoA | updates in post #2 for September 2018

I know Candy and Polly are already banned by proxy but I noticed their body looks like an exaggerated Iplehouse B.I.D body.
This sucks, I really hoped when I started to see some more good company photos from Mirodoll that we'd get another reputable budget company like Resinsoul...

 

This is extremely disappointing. I own a lot of Mirodolls, so my heart is broken a little.

In the interest of clarity, I am not currently using my newest 1/4 body. I wouldn't mind sending it to somebody who has a JID body for comparisons. This would help clear up the issue.

 

I think we're gonna need conclusive proof beyond just photos. If someone has both to compare that'd be way more helpful i think. A real shame if true though, as Miro are often the go to company suggested for newbies. Have they themselves been approached for comment? In the interest of fairness it could be worth allowing them to present evidence if they believe they're being falsely accused or indeed admission if it turns out there has been some iffy dealings going on. You have to wonder though, why? What did they have to gain from doing so? They already had regular customers despite their bodies flaws, you'd think it'd have been more sensible to just you know, try to improve rather than copy/paste?
All very odd.

I heard they had a new sculptor, is it possible that's where the problem lies and the high ups were oblivious? Or have they gotten so desperate they just didn't care about ethics? Either way, this needs to be investigated further.

 

Do I need to delete in dolls my mirodoll body? Hope they really aren't doing this.

 

If you have a hybrid that is currently on a non-banned body, can you still discuss the doll? Also, those on the okay list may still be discussed?

 

Can the moderators also please clarify what the status is for dolls made by artists who use Mirodoll as a casting service? There are a number of independent doll artists who don't do their own casting and a lot of them have been using Mirodoll as a casting service. Are dolls designed by other people but cast by Mirodoll included in the post March 2018 ban?

 

I was wondering the same thing? I don't think mine is one of the banned bodies but this is all very disappointing. I wish that things like this didn't need to happen...

 

@moderators please be aware, if it has slipped the mods minds, there is still a mirodoll banner ad running!

 

My concern here is of another nature, though.

Do mods have the new Mirodoll body in question and the Iplehouse JID body for a physical inspection and comparison? Did Mirodoll get contacted and confronted about this before making this decision? Did they refuse to present evidence? Did they ignore emails or any other methods of communication? Did they fail to prove or defend themselves from these allegations?

Is this decision made solely based on the alarming likeness between the IH JID body and the new Mirodoll MSD body? Because we have seen a lot of bodies with freakishly "identical" quality to other dolls and I don't see decisions like this being made about them.

Another point to make. The cost of producing dolls is China isn't the same as it is in Japan/Korea. (I'm speaking of ABJD here, not BJDs from other countries and independent doll makers.) Mirodoll doesn't hire seamstresses to create full sets, doesn't seem to use a professional photography team or use elaborate dioramas/sets/props, or hire “HQ” face-up artists for their promos. I have seen some ridiculously talented BJD face-up artists from China who charge 1/3 the price of face-up artists on our side of the globe, so even if they had more "elaborate face-up" offerings, that wouldn't necessarily mean the price would go up. All of these factors help in reducing the cost of operations, I think.

To say that the lower cost of their dolls could potentially be because they copy other people's creations and tweak it to release under their brand is counterproductive as it might give new collectors the impression that all affordable dolls might cost less for similar reasons.

I think banning of a brand should only happen when there is no shadow of a doubt the company is blatantly recasting/tweaking an existing doll/part. From the post, I do not feel this is the case. It's important that we as a community make decisions to protect our artists and hobby, but we can't start making such decisions on assumptions/photographs alone. If the new Mirodoll body has been analyzed and proven a modified copy of IH JID without a doubt, then by all means, this is an understandable decision. As it stands, we can probably name quite a few companies with similar bodies/parts to others that are considered on-topic still. It's important that we're careful and fair to all companies.

I hope this issue with Mirodoll can be cleared up — whether it'll be in favor of them or not. I also hope Iplehouse can release a statement or perhaps even analyze the Mirodoll body themselves to shed light into this situation as well.

 

Also, a quick note: does the Claudette dolls and her sisters still remain on topic? They were made by an artist but Mirodoll did their casting. I'd hate for this to backlash on Arwen.

 

Honestly, in all these years almost all their attempts to improve resulted in hideously misshapen bodies and faces. For example, their "66 cm Mascular girl body" or one of their 70 cm male bodies, now removed from their site, clearly based on Dollshe Rhythmos body. Also, still the same terrible elbow and wrist joints. I don't think they have any potential to improve, seeing what they did to Iple B.I.D body. Seriously, they were using such a well-sculpted body as a base and remade it into what?..

 

Are XM Dolls still allowed? I know they're currently on break, but they're supposed to be returning at some point and their dolls were usually posted in the Miro threads...

 

The 66cm Mascular girl body was actually sculpted by Sicktress, she made the torso and Miro provided the arms and legs. I believe they are also the company that cast her Deesse head sculpt. If that body is one of the accused copying then one would need to get Sicktress involved as well, however I remember her sculpting process over many months on instagram before sending the torso to Mirodoll for production. (Mentioned from an above comment not based on the mod post, since this body is deemed allowed on the forum)

I am interested in seeing real life side by sides though, hopefully one or more people can get the doll bodies in question together for comparison rather than overlaying images, or at least more images as was done when Pidgindoll's thread was made (inspecting joint aesthetic as well as photographs of inside the joints taken from the same angles).

One case that would be a good indicator is the inside of the thighs- if it is a modified scan perhaps there is still sign of the iplehouse stringing method in the engineering of the hip sockets, even though Mirodoll has visible drilling channels into the legs.

 

OK wow. Yeah, so much wrong here. One, yes, Sicktress handmade that body. I know because I prompted her to do so and watched her progress. She made it to be usable with the 66cm lean boy limbs on purpose. I do not find it hideously deformed, that is opinion and only yours, though perhaps shared by others. That is just mean spirited. As for their 70cm male, I'm glad they removed it as I have begged them for years to work on it- the engineering was poor and it was based OVER the 70cm girl body as suggested by another customer (which was not me). Hopefully it comes back improved. (Edit: just read the comment that it was 'clearly base on the Rythmos body'. Sorry but *LOLOLOLOL* If that is true, wow, Miro SUCKS at copying. I don't believe that's true because just LOOK at it!... well, I let the comparison speak for itself. Maybe they passed the body through a room that once contained a Rythmos body, but I think it all stops there.)

I've noticed the 5stardoll new super star 70cm girl also looks a heck of a lot like the DT 18yrs girl, moreso than Miro's version, but I would not say they copied. Understand, please, there are only so many configurations a human body can take. There are a 100 forms of martial arts and they all start repeating eventually. Why? Because they're copying each other? No, because the human body can only do so much. Tall dolls, especially female forms, are often made lean to compensate for the weight of the extra resin needed and because tall and lean is a popular aesthetic. Now, I understand the 70cm body is not on the block here, but I've seen quite a few bodies that are similar to many others because you can only do so much with the form and keep it recognizable. (We don't all want Doll Chateau aesthetics.)

Similar? yes, the new MSD body IS similar (though if they were going to 'upgrade', I'd like to think they'd go in the direction of better poseability than IH) and so are many others. Cannons fired like this should be based on a lot more proof and not feeling. "However, we believe their low prices are a direct result of them stealing the work other companies have done. With the recent trademark situation, the mod team feels that we cannot allow Mirodoll to continue on as they have been with no consequences." Wow. That's harsh. They're cheap so they must be copying? Recasts are actually more expensive than Miros. So to continue as they have with no consequences... this translates to "we think they did a no-no but they're cheap, so we'll punish them for being cheap, because it must mean they copied." Flawed logic, my friends.

Please use facts only before you defame a company like this. If it happens to be true, then your conscience is clear; if it ends up being false, how do they regain public trust? You would have defamed them, marred their name for years to come and it will stick. You know it will. I've seen it happen before. That's libel- in America and probably other countries you could be sued for that and loss of income. Would Miro have any recourse? No, they wouldn't. But this is serious- please don't go about it this way, get the proof first. Then I'll comply with your wishes. But this? This is not right on many levels.

 

Unfortunately it isnt up to us what the mods choose to do and what they allow to happen on the site. They have made that very clear.

 

I'd like to know as well; the mirodoll body I use for a hybrid isn't on the banned list, but I also use that same doll as my profile picture so if I need to change it I'd really like to know.

Even if not all the stuff from Mirodoll is banned, this situation probably means all of mirodoll's sculpts are going to be under heavy scrutiny, so I'm wondering if that's gonna change in the future or not. It's really very unfortunate; It's one the main companies I see encouraged for people new to the hobby (besides Resinsoul of course) or for a cheap hybrid option, so this is going to mess with an awful lot of people.

 

Basically, if Miro can provide the original 3d models and someone can do a proper in person comparison, we should have a pretty good set of evidence right?

Personally a few of those comparison pics I see too much different and only superficial similarities but photos can be deceptive either way. We need the two bodies literally side by side to be compared and we also need to hear what miro have to say.

I also have this worry that they may have hired someone in good faith who's now screwed them over, because it seems a pretty strange change of their usual technique or indeed their attitude on facebook where they constantly ask for feedback and suggestions on jointing. Why make crap joints if you can just 3d copy and print better ones? Why make wierd boobs if you can just scan some decent ones? Seems like a pretty strange choice to make. I mean, you can 3d scan something, why not take the good elements?

 

It has happened before (Fairyland, actually, and probably more) where sculptors were hired and then stole from other sources without the knowledge of the company. That particular sculptor was dismissed, a public apology given by Fairyland and they engaged the real artist instead. (This was for the steampunk weapons.) So it is possible- I just want Miro treated fairly and clearly they are being treated with a bias due to their low cost. This surprises me. I'd like to see the -innocent until PROVEN guilty- thing happen before destroying a reputation. (Edited company name to be correct)

 

(Actually Harucasting did the Deesse head. And I find the 66 mascular body a lot of fun to pose and play with). At least DOA is trying to be precise in what they are not allowing, but I would like to have Mirodoll have a chance to "show their work" on the current controversial body.

 

As always, I trust the moderators in this regard. I don't think they make these decisions lightly. I can tell obvious bootlegs, you know the ones that show another company's picture, with a discontinued doll, at a too good to be true price, but something like this could slip right passed me because it's not obvious. I'm not familiar with all the models. Thanks for watching out for us DoA

 

This seems a bit premature to me, too. I would definitely agree that the new 1/4 body looks inspired by Iplehouse's aesthetic, but in the side by side pics, it looks like the torso and ribcage are longer on Miro's, the arms look shorter, the hips look a bit wider and rounder, the hands are different, and the waist possibly slimmer. So I'd say similar, but not a simple "copy paste" like a true recast. Mirodoll should imo be given some opportunity to defend their work or make corrective actions before being given the banhammer so abruptly. I mean, Dollmore isn't banned, and they released a 70cm boy body years ago that looked even more directly "inspired by" another company's work (the Dollshe body) than this looks to be a copy of Iple's JID body. Yet, all their dolls made after that are allowed. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me, but I guess that's up to the mods to decide.

Oh well, looks like I'll be checking out the Dollieh Sanctuary forum to share my Miro mods. *shrug* Hope some of the nice people I chatted to here about modding Mirodolls are there, too.

 

That was Fairyland that copied another artist’s work for their Steampunk Feeple60 Celine and Rin fullsets. Not LUTS. If we’re talking about protecting company reputations then let’s have the facts straight.

 

Pardon, I will change it and thank you for pointing that out. But you still make a good point: let's have our facts straight.

 

Let's just remember that DoA is a privately owned forum. There's no voting on ban decisions here, so collective opinion doesn't really matter in this instance. As the opening post states, the mods have been discussing this for weeks, so it's not like they just decided on this without giving it any thought.

In my humble opinion, there's no need for further evidence anyway. Nobody's claiming that MiroDoll literally made recasts. These bodies are clearly modified from bodies made by other companies. There are too many similarities for it to be merely “inspired by”, both in the general silhouette of the dolls and the more specific shape of their joints. Photo comparisons are all I need to see that they're copies, and overlays just make it even more obvious. This method has been used for years to spot recasts and modified copies. No need for side-by-side in real life comparisons- since they've been modified, the dolls will not match 100% or even be the same size anymore. Besides, the chances of someone coming forth with actual in-person comparison photos is almost zero. Anyone who was willing to pay top dollar for the original Iplehouse or Dollstown bodies would not have ever bought the MiroDoll versions.

 

The 'privately owned forum' bit was really all you needed and I had forgotten. They have their opinion, I have mine, I don't agree with the mods' decision or defamation of the company, and I understand that if I don't like it I can go elsewhere. I think that ends it (for me, anyway).

 

Yeah, ditto -- it's totally up to them what they want on their board, but those of us who don't feel the same way should remain open to exploring other places to share. Multiple active communities will help ensure fair and even discourse across the BJD hobby I think, so that people won't be so inclined to panic if something isn't allowed here, or feel excluded from the hobby if the attitudes of DOA don't reflect their personal beliefs or feelings.

 

Privately owned, yes, and they have all the right to decide what they do and we as members to stay or go, but I hope they do better in the future.

For many doll collectors, DoA is considered as a sort of “BJD Bible” — they come here for info, for guidance, for help. They tend to take what’s here as “fact and law.” Being the largest English BJD community comes with great responsibility.

If pictures will suffice as evidence for something like this then why aren’t other doll companies in similar situations checked at this time too?

And what is going to be the criteria from here on out on this matter? Where does “inspired by” cross the line into “copy/paste/modify?” Will the databases be updated and all suspicious bodies and molds be considered? There are many other companies that border this same problem too.

 

I agree with this statement.

With that said, Anything that comes across here as negative can effect any company's future.
Nothing travels faster then bad news, more-so on social media.

It is my hope that the moderation team here on the forum keep that in mind when they are reviewing suspicious dolls. Other then that I am happy that they are allowing the other sculpts to remain on-topic.

Let's not forget that Dollzone had been accused of similar actions in the past and they did clean up their act.

 

As many people have already commented, I sculpted the torso for the 66cm “Mascular” body from scratch using paperclay. I did not copy a Dollshe Rhythmos body, and am not sure where you even drew that comparison? I provided Miro with the torso and used their arms and legs from their newer 66cm boy bodies. I can not speak on the rest of Miro’s line, but let’s hold off on the general accusations, please.

My Déesse heads were cast by Haru Casting and verified by the DoA mod squad as legitimate.

 

@Sicktress I think the body being compared to Dollshe Rhythmos was Miro's linked 70cm male, not your girl!

 

The 66cm muscular girl body is sculpted by sicktress not Mirodoll, you can see the sculpting pictures of it on her Instagram.
Edit: oops just saw that other people corrected this already

 

Yes.

Their casting service is not being called into question.

It's not a case of mind slippage, but of specialized access to the controls of the banner ad module.

Please see above; their casting services are not part of the problem. We're hardly going to penalize the artists of original sculpts who used them. However, because of the banning, the services can't be publicly recommended or advertised on the forum.

XM dolls - that's an area we're looking into since it was just mentioned to us.

 

@hobbywhelmed Thank you for answering my questions. This has really broken my heart. Please keep us posted on any developments!

 

I think that people saying the decision is too abrupt, stating they are innocent until proven guilty, and/or asking for them to be given another chance are missing this part (which is understandable since it's just one line buried amidst a lot of text in a long long announcement):

^Sounds like they have a chance to clear their name and/or have future dolls be on topic, like other companies who copied (Fairyland, Dollmore, etc.)

Keep in mind that this is exact situation is what Dollzone did with their first couple dolls (who were modified recasts, and to this day are banned from being posted on DoA). Afterwards they made reparations for their actions and today, far from a destroyed reputation, they are a popular, well-renowned company in the community. Therefore, the next move is up to Miro if they want their future releases to be on topic (and/or if they wish to further prove the legitimacy of the banned ones --though given the stunningly exact similarity of the 1/4 girl, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.)

Ball's in their court.

 

Just saw that on Facebook Mirodoll has made a short statement, i’m Not sure if they’ll do another longer one. But they had no knowledge until it was brought up that this new sculptor was copying and appear to take responsibility for the mistake and have taken the items off of their website.

 

Can you link us to this statement? I can't seem to find it

 

I'd like to see clearer comparison photos. I personally don't see that much similarity between the bodies shown in the first posts. They look completely different to me.

 

I would hope XM dolls would still be okay as I'm fairly certain they're a separate company from Mirodoll. I know they're the same company as Magical Angel, just a different brand name. As far as I know Miro only sold them as kind of a third-party dealer service (didn't they even say they used a different casting service and that's why the XM resin colors were different from Miro's? or am I misremembering something entirely?), so I would assume they have pretty much nothing to do with this issue and would just fall under the "artists who used their services" category.

 

It was from the admin, posted on the Mirodoll discussion group, in the recent posts in the about section, there’s no share feature on the post, I also reposted it on my Instagram(same username)

 

Taken from @SugarPineapple 's Instagram. It's unclear from the screenshot who posted this to facebook, what their relationship is to mirodoll or whether or not we can trust the information, yet.

 

I didn’t realize until after I left out who posted it oops. It was from Arwen Grune who casts her dolls through Mirodoll and is the admin of the discussion group.

 

@Idyllhands That was posted not long ago by the admin of the BJD Mirodoll Discussion Group on Facebook!

 

The bodies in question do not appear to currently be listed in the "doll body" category in MiroDoll's shop.

 

if that's the case, maybe we can expect some positive news soon from the powers that be

 

XM doll is NOT Miro... They are a separate facility and factory. They just sell their dolls on the Miro site. XM is Magical Angel.

Miro has removed the offending bodies already. I will draw a new body sketch and their sculptor will sculpt it as my art to follow, just like they did with the Mika head. That way any blame for copying can be directed at me.

 

I'm relieved they're taking this issue so seriously -- I honestly really liked dealing with them, and would hate for any copying to have been purely intentional on their part. I kind of didn't think it was though, as honestly... Copying Iplehouse bodies? I own two Iplehouse dolls, and while they have stunning faces, the body sculpts are kind of the worst thing about them, bulky and hard to pose. Plus, with already being such a popular company, it would be crazy for Mirodoll to risk their reputation like that now. It would be total self-sabotage and just makes no sense from a business perspective.

 

"He didn't know he couldn't use other dolls as reference" and "Miro didn't know he was doing it" are the lamest excuse EVER.

Are you telling me that miro didn't even check his work?

I'm sorry I'm not buying it.

 

When I was learning to draw, many moons ago now, I referenced TONS of other people's work so my hand could get used to the feel of the lines and the shapes. I did it fir many years. Heck, I will STILL do it now if i want to explore a new style or relearn something forgotten. If the sculptor is not used to the 3d system, he may very well have referenced something to get the hang of it.

Miro not checking it is another story but they ARE in China. China limits internet access. I'm not excusing it, I'm saying there may be mitigating factors. Or they were foolishly too trusting. I dont know the whole situation, I wasn't there.

 

We are not talking about a person who wants to research other styles to improve him/herself, we are talking about a person who thought it was cool to take the IH body and copy it.

(Of course these are speculations since we don't know whetever the statement is true or not)

 

Yes, speculations on both our behalfs. I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt but I understand where you're coming from.

 

As a disclaimer, I think some of the words I'm about to say sound a lot harsher than intended. So I want it to be known that I get why Miro owners are worried and saddened by this, and I get why it earns emotional responses and I get why seeing an affordable outlet for artists' casting service accused is especially upsetting but I want to say my piece anyway.

The sticking point for me is not the msd body (though I do see it) the sticking point for me is the 70cm girl body. The second I saw it I couldn't believe it was anything other than a sanded recast of a Dollstown with elbows and knees fused to be single jointed. The truly telling part, for me, is that Dollstown leg twist. If you look at both of the dolls left legs, the shape and the fact that you pretty much have to twist it like that to make her stand, making the first comparison photo really highlight how exactly the legs match, is all the proof I really need. There's no way one isn't a copy of the other. The leg twist is not a feature of 'only so many human shapes' it's how one specific artist tends to sculpt his dolls. All the other features you can argue away as aesthetic, there's only so many boob shapes, a long waist makes her look slimmer, hip bones are sexy, if you don't want tube arms it makes sense that the top of the forearm bulges out. But that leg twist and leg shape is 100% Dollstown.

That said, I think this reaction that DoA's mods are acting out willy nilly, with a knee jerk ban is totally unjustified. They've been looking at this same body with a questioning eye for years and not taken action. This also means that it's not just a new artist at Mirodoll who didn't know any better, it's something they've been doing for years. I'm with Demiurgo that it's pretty much the lamest excuse ever. There's a pretty big difference between tracing something for practice-or duplicating something from a reference for your own personal use, and using that item for profit. If you say, copied a picture of Naruto to learn to draw, that's fine. But if you copied it, gave him blue hair, and tried to sell it as your own original character, that would be wrong, and I think everyone understands that. Therefore I find it total butt covering to claim their artist didn't know any better.

Seeing as Miro's dolls were tweaked and not exact copies, I'm really glad the mods are not holding Miro's actions against owners. They seem to be addressing these highly suspected sculpts very calmly and reasonably. Additionally I don't think this accusation will destroy Miro. Like Dollmore, there will be people who vehemently deny the evidence no matter how damning and those people will rally behind Miro. Like Dollmore and Dollzone (and others) they'll have a chance to make changes and improve. And if somehow, they magically prove they digitally sculpted everything start to finish, this will blow over, and I think the only lasting effect will be collectors responding with more skepticism to other accusations of copying.

 

Yes, thank you. Excellent point! This ban has now set a precedent and in all fairness, it should be equally be applied to every BJD company, every BJD doll, head and body sculpt ever made. I'd wish to know when the full scale inspections of companies and artists of all dolls and companies will start?

Has the Dollzone/ Doll Leaves 58cm girl body and 45cm girl body situation been looked at? They are very similar. In fact, there are more similarities here than differences. One of them ought to be banned!


How about Dreaming Doll Elva girl body and Little Monica Harmony girl body? Aren't they dubiously identical in shape?

Raccoon Dolls and Iplehouse FIDs need to be put under the magnifying glass immediately.
All 1/6 baby bodies should be lined up and inspected, measured and judged. They are all so dubiously similar.
The traditional style head sculpts by Luts, Fairyland, Little Monica, Dreaming Doll, Dream of Doll, Crobi (the list is endless) should now the put under extreme scrutiny and it must be determined which ones are too similar to each other.
Let's not hold back! This needs to be done properly now!

Please add your own suspicions and suggestions! Let's make an official list of every even remotely similar doll part too. Have some hands been copied? Are there too similar feet or horns or head caps?

Have we considered hunting down members here who we suspect might have been inspired by someone else's face-up?
Did someone sew a similar costume to the one you made for your BJD? Report them now!

 

The sarcasm in that post is a bit rich. While I understand the perspective of those trying to defend Mirodoll after they essentially confessed to the wrong doing, it does seem a bit silly. The company in question has already admit their artist did wrong and have taken steps to remove the items in question from their own website. At this point, there's not much more to defend AGAINST the mods' decision. This wasn't a decision made lightly (obviously) and it ended up being very correct.

 

If Mirodoll staff themselves took the bodies down and admitted that it was a "mistake" done by their "designer", then what the Mods said and done are correct. There is simply no need to "defend" Mirodoll now, is there? They admitted it.

 

It happens more than one might expect. I had worked for several businesses and 90%of the time they never checked what I was doing just gave the "okay" on the final work. (Also working with 3D models, just not in the doll industry.) So I can definitely see that happen. I'm not saying this is okay, they should keep an eye out for these things and maybe with this happening they will.

 

No one is defending anyone here, least of all me. I'm asking for equality. All those other companies haven't been interrogated, put on the spot, intimidated... yet. Who knows what they might confess to if we did do that? Goodness knows there are enough similarities to spot in the dolls, if we really start investigating. Let's make the already angst driven and fear based Den of Demons an even more scary pit of doom where no one is safe and anyone can feel persecuted and intimidated! Hehe! Oh. Pardon the sarcasm. I'll humbly take that back.

I meant to show how very minute the differences really are in dolls. I always thought it was odd that the DoA has taken it upon themselves to police the BJD business as it is. I remember a time when they policed style too and companies were banned for not falling within a certain aesthetic. They killed off a good few fine doll makers with their bans. BJD companies are already afraid to even try anything new and innovative, because if they don't have a wrist joint or some such, they're immediately off topic. So DoA is pushing companies to conform and then police them for too many similarities, when they do. They should decide which way the want things now. I tried to show where implementing this kind of policies can lead to, but if the majority of you members condone and accept this, the hey, live and let live. I'm all for freedom of expression! If you're lucky, it will it be your favourite company on the chopping block next.

I'll just quietly remove myself from here and play with my dolls elsewhere. Enjoy yourselves folks!

 

Thank goodness the 3 Miro dolls I bought are not on the list. I have this thing about ordering old style. I would not defy the mods on their decisions because I don't know a hundredth of what they know. But, this would mean that I was badly burned four times for nearly 800.00 us dollar, buying what was recommended to me by DOA. Since I only learned about BJD's after Christmas last year, I think it would make me very bitter.
I can see very clearly the quality difference in Miro from my IH Mari FID and it only told me you get what you pay for. And yes, I bought the Miro's because they were cheaper, so I could practice until Mari arrived.
I do hope this gets sorted. I will abide by DOA rules, and above all, I am pro-artist.

But wait. I know I asked this on this forum once before, to a Moderator. How is 3D printing art? Isn't that mass production? Are the original sculpts not done in clay? I use an oil-based clay to sculpt, and that form is generally destroyed in the casting process. So they take a clay sculpt and then print it? Confused... And a little irritated.

 

@Blankqueen

In the images provided when starting the thread, there is an image lineup of the JID body and the Miro body that is completely exact in the torso and legs (the arms are not clearly matched due to pose). The bodies you posted, while they share common aesthetics, would likely not result in such an extreme overlap if photographed from the same angle and juxtaposted over one another -- nowhere near -- which is why those bodies have not been met with the same scrutiny (scrutiny being a more fitting word imo than 'intimidation'. Nobody sent muscular characters to loom outside Mirodoll's offices, or writing threatening letters, just asked them to explain themselves.)

And if it were to turn out that one of them *is* modified from another, you can be sure as soon as someone has photo proof as clear as that of the JID body and the Miro, those companies would absolutely face scrutiny. Not sure what "maybe next time it'll be your favorite company on the chopping block" is supposed to mean, any company who does this should face scrutiny, and certainly nobody's lopping off any heads...! Companies can and do come back from such mistakes, Dollmore and Dollzone are alive and kicking for example. (By the way, you also have at least one example where both bodies are the work of the same artist, so if there's a similarity there, well...)

I also believe it is quite hyperbolic to say DoA is "policing the BJD business" (also, small note: since you mentioned aesthetics, companies which are off-topic for aesthetic aren't banned, they're just off topic. You can actually post about them in Brigadoon if you want, and images of them can go in the threads and gallery if they're hanging out with an on-topic doll). Also to say it has "killed off a good few fine doll makers with their bans"(...!) Can you name a dollmaker which has gone out of business due to being off-topic for DoA?