Desperately seeking Zevchan (Bad transaction)

Charming is all I can say. And yes that picture has been changed since I looked at the MySpace a few days ago. And I dont think she got her own description very accurate either.. "Empathic".... think not. "Intelligent".. scamming isnt the most intelligent career.... "Loyal".. far from it. So she probably needs to update that bit too. Yeah her little speil sure comes across as very intolerant, ignorant and narrow minded.

One would seriously have to consider that she intended to scam right from the outset. If honest sellers are hit with things outside their control making it very difficult to fulfil their responsibilities.. they usualy show some sort of guilt, sorrow and remorse and certainly try to remedy the situation. Scammers take the arrogant approach .. and have no feeling at all for those they scam. Most dont even see/accept that they have done wrong.. hey they were "clever" enough to get the money.. suffer suckers. She has logged onto MySpace every day recently - so she definitley has internet access.. she is hiding. Scammers are also cowards.

 

I really went back and forth whether or not to post in this thread...

I had an extremely unpleasant transaction with zevchan quite a while back. Thankfully at the time the mods were still able to step in and help out. I have no doubts that it's thanks to them that I (and a couple other people involved with michi at the time) got their items from her.

She definitely treated us as if we were a pain, unreasonable, and ridiculous. It was particularly interesting that she was acting as if she had done nothing wrong - when the sheer numbers of us who had a complaint with her, pretty much was evidence to the contrary. For her to call herself "empathetic" is a particular slap in the face, given how we were all treated with contempt, uncaring derision.

I understand that she has a lot of friends on the board, and so I never publicly said anything, but for quite some time now here on DOA there have been "Anybody heard from Zevchan?" threads pretty often.

Apparently in person she is very personable and seems nice. In the end, I got my head, but by then it was SO unbelievably tainted that I sold it right away. I am sorry that people who thought they were friends are getting hurt, too.

So... I'm posting because I feel very badly for people who were trying to say "she's just really busy right now" because she has been treating people like this for over a year, and I just thought people should know. But in the end, usually, eventually, with a lot of threats and poking and prodding, she would come through, so she never actually DID get banned or anything like that.

This isn't new... or unexpected from this individual... and I'm SO SORRY this happened to you, AG. I really hope you get your doll or at the very least, your money back.

 

my two cents...

As someone whose going through the same thing with a different DOA member,

yes 21 days is a long time. Especially if you're 1. buying it from someone who does this for fun and for money on the side (not an established company) when the risk of being scammed is so great, 1 week is too long. and 2. if you pay by paypal you only have a limited amount of time to request a refund. which I believe someone said is right around the 40 day mark?

21 days is half way to the eligibility to request a refund from paypal before you're out of luck. So yes, it is a long time. 1 week is a long time to go without an update. to me 1 day is a long way.

if you're going to take money from someone, you should provide goods. if you're not, you're stealing, breaking a contract. if you're not trying to do that intentionally and plan on following through, it takes ten seconds to log on and say- "I'm really sorry it may take a few more weeks. do you want a refund or can I honor our agreement?" there's no excuse for dropping off the face of the earth with your customers.

can you imagine what would happen if Luts or Volks did that? their business would be doa (And i"m talking dead on arrival not den of angels)!

 

I've been thinking lately that alot of people take advantage of our general unwillingness to say bad things about others. We have this unwritten law here that everything we say has to be nice, and to a point I do agree with this, but it shouldn't carry over to the marketplace. If someone has mucked you around here you should feel ok about posting your bad experiences before someone else gets burnt. I see it all too often, someone finally posts and suddenly others who have had bad experiences start coming out of the woodwork.

Everyone is somebodies friend, but in reality how well do you REALLY know that person you leap to defend? I've been on the internet since it first arrived in NZ I have known many people online through the years, one became a very dear friend who I loved as a brother, we spoke online for three years until he was murdered. I found out he was heavily involved in the drug scene and minor crimes... something I would never ever have guessed. He never lied to me, but he never gave me the whle picture either. We can all be someone we're not really in online land

We should feel ok about posting here, not guilty. Scammers know how nice we all are, they know how we don't want to say bad things and that know they have internet friends who will leap to their defence and vouch for them even though they themselves are being fooled. I see it so many times here. When someone does finally get the courage to speak out they're told to be patient, to forgive, they're told how xxxx is just having a rough patch and to wait longer. I hope these defence lawyers speaking on the accused behalf will finally realise how they're just unwitting tools in the scam

There is a difference between saying bad things about someone just to attack them, and saying something not so nice because it is the truth and they have harmed you by their actions. We all need to know who to watch out for

 

also, true scammers work like this

they'll build a few good clients who WILL Vouch for them. it makes it easier to rip other people off when honest people say "Hey check so and so out, they're great" and the good clients who vouch for them are unwilling participants. They don't know they're being used in a scheme. they think they had a great transaction and everyone should love this person. they don't realize this person's a scammer.

I agree people shouldn't be afraid to voice an opinion about being ripped off. Others will be protected instead of victimized.

Like the old saying goes. Every Theif is some mother's baby, some brother or sister's brother or sister and somebody's friend. Does that make them less of a criminal?

 

Shan - I am so glad you decided to post. I agree with Pirate Wnech - more people should post of their experiences here when trading. It would help everyone.
On some other doll boards where trading occurs - they have a section where each person who has entered a trad - has a thread just in their name. Anyone who trades with them - enters feedback. Nothing else.. no chat. It makes it very easy to do a bit of research before trading. If all feedback was in the same format - people could easily make up their minds about trading.
Even if it was something along the lines of:

Item: Clothing, wig, doll etc (gives people an idea of what sort of value - without having to state a $ figure)
Date money sent:
Date item received: (easy to then tell how quick the person is to ship - if it appears slow - you could easily ask if there were some good reason - eg AFTER purchase the seller is going to do a face up/modifications etc - so yes there woudl be a legitimate time delay)

Then just a general comment - like "Item as described" or other wise if it wasnt what you were expecting.
If the original deal wasnt up to expectations.. then a little further comment would be good.. "Contacted seller about xxx... and the outcome - eg.. all sorted out .. or it wasnt sorted out.. and a timeframe.

This way its all just black and white.. dont need to feel guilty about posting.. and then other people can more easily decide if they want to risk dealing with someone. You just need to search the sub forum.. and ALL posts for a particular user ID are under one thread.. not all over the place. It benefits good sellers as well...

 

I wasn't aware that she had done this to anybody else.... Its a good thing to know but hurts to know that my friend has done this...

 

-_- Back in the end of 2004 I bought a magic 8 ball (SD13 size) from
Zevchan and she said she'd "ship it out on monday" a couple of weeks
went by and I pm'ed her...But she never replied...and then I got
tired of poking her.....it was only $2 (if I remember correctly ^^; )
so I let it slide....to little money for me to post about it.....
she was a well known DOA member after all and I was just a newbie

 

LOL I totally forgot about it! ROFL I had bought one too, but i honestly don't remember if she had sent it or not. I've moved several times since 2004 so it wouldn't surprise me if i lost in in the moves. I just kind of forgot about it.

I would never have even thought to remember if it wasn't that the pinata for my birthday had doll-sized magic 8 balls AmethystDuckie bought in it.

 

:P

OT-ish:
I had really wanted that magic 8 ball....^^; and it kept annyoing me that
I never got it just 'cause it would have made a really good photostory with
Tetsu.....

......you wouldn't happen to know where I can get some dolly sized ones?

 

this is a little OT of me to post this,...

but you guys really shouldn't feel afraid to say negative but TRUE things about monetary transactions on DoA. As long as you are placing them in the feedback area, and they are doll related, you _should_ post about bad experiences. By posting a negative feedback about another user, as long as it is factual, you are HELPING other users not have a bad experience.

I wish we could help people more.

 

I don't think that people are afraid to say negative things about a transaction, I think that people are just a little apprehensive to speak negatively about somebody or a transaction in general because it can sometimes been seen as a slam to the person that initiated the transaction.

Nobody wants to belittle somebody openly, and as such, it can be REALLY hard to talk about a bad experience. I mean I was hesitant to speak of my "bad experience" that happened recently on here and even so I didn't even talk about what happened when I finally got my item. It is hard to speak up.... without looking like you are blatantly pointing fingers. I also think that a of people want to give the seller the benefit of the doubt in most situations which leaves them holding back until it is just too late.

 

In this case, I was afraid to say anything negative, because I knew she had friends on the board, and I didn't want to get that whole "how dare you say something about my friend! You are a horrible person!!" so I didn't say anything.

There is also the issue of whether or not you got your item during a transaction. I DID get my item. So I obviously was relieved about that - but was the transaction satisfactory? Heck no, it took all kinds of begging and poking and prodding and threats of banning by the mods to get it.

I liked the suggestion made here about posting the simple dates of a transaction --
e.g., paid for 1.20.06
received 3.24.06

and that's it. People can wonder themselves why it took 2 months for that seller to send the item.

 

Zevchan's been restricted from the Marketplace until these matters are cleared up. (She will have access to the Feedback Forum so that she can see and hopefully address these issues.)

 

I think my roommate got them at a party favors store, like party city or something. I'll have to ask her.

 

Oki! ^___^

 

The thing about putting the paid date and the received date in feedback - its just black and white - you dont even need to post an "opionion" on it.
That way a prospective buyer can have a quick look at all the feedback and view the shipping times and make up their own mind.
If shipping appears to be slow on only one tranaction... that could quite well be reasonable. But if shipping appears slow on many transactions - that have been done at different times.. how likely is it that "something drastic croped up".. EVERY (or the vast majority) of times that the seller entered into a transaction. That should ring some warning bells.. enough for someone to start asking some legitimate questions before they enter into a transaction.

Something like that MAY have prevented other people getting caught up in another problem that has been posted about on the forum - re non receipt of goods over a VERY long time.

If its a standard feedback that you just fill in the blanks - people will be far more willing to post. Its possible it COULD prevent some future trading problems for others. Also if sellers know it will be posted - they MAY be a little more careful in how they complete their end of the bargain.

Of course there is the other side of the coin too... sellers offering goods.. "buyers" agreeing to buy - then pulling out - leaving the seller in the position they have declined other "buyers" because they thought the item was sold. You cant always go back and contact the other interested parties - they most likely have purchased elsewhere when you item appeared to have been spoken for.

 

I think it would be good in the sense that you can see chronic "oops I've changed my mind" folks. There is a huge difference though in seriousness of offense. The seller still has the item and considering people can return an item for their money back, it's really just a more annoying part of doing business.

The issue with a person giving money and not receiving goods is entirely different. The only comparison would be if a seller sent the item and the person never pays for it. Then they are out to the same degree.

You are in the position of power as a seller, because you have the collateral until you recieve payment. Though it's a pain to have to attempt to resell, at least you haven't lost your money or the merchandise.

 

I totally agree with you. I sell a lot on eBay.. and personally I never get too upset about NPB.. I still have the item.. sure its a nuisance sometimes and costs me if I cant be bothered with an eBay report. I was really just refering to feedback section.... thats all..

But feedback for this seller MAY have helped if people felt comfortable about just "filling in the blanks"
time paid..
date shipped... might have JUST been enough to warn potential customers in this case - as it appears this has happened before.. VERY tardy in shipping.. and needs a lot of pushing to do so. That would show in feedback with out even having to "say" a thing

Just goes to show what contempt some people have for others.. and these are people they dont even know... just "someone out there"...

 

It's hard to hear about this, Zevchan seemed to be a long time member and done good transactions before. It's scary, all these scammers and bad sellers popping up and taking people for vast amounts of money with no dolls to boot. It really makes me angry that people can do this to one another, espeically some of the "senior members".
Makes me think twice and a little nervous about buying and selling in the marketplace.

I completely understand this. I have had a bad experince with a seller here but they are exteremely popular so it is difficult to post about the experience, though I am worried that is might happen to another buyer. I had much the same expereince, that I did FINALLY get my item, however the transaction was not satifactory and took 4 months to get to me (though, I am still missing the second part, going on 7 months now...) Still, it's hard to post anything negative for fear of being alienated and shunned by the member's friends.... There is also the fear that is I make too much of a fuss I will never recieve my overdue item.... -_-

 

Buyers should never ever feel their goods are being held hostage to prevent them from speaking the truth. And it makes me ill when I hear people say things like they're scared to leave bad feedback out of fear of getting bad feedback in retaliation and it marring their record. As for being alienated and shunned by friends of the seller. for every 'friend' who will point fingers at you and fly to the defence of someone they actually don't know in person there will be a dozen who applaud and support you for alerting the rest of us to what is potentialy a problematic seller.

 

(I'm sorry this is going off topic, if there is a better place for me to and/or ask these questions I will move my post there. ^^)

That's very true. I'm just worried about jumping the gun or marring the record of another if they really are not scamming me, and just being overly slow, you know. However, what you said is very true and I should not be so cowardly about it. However, there is the fact that I do feel that my item is being held hostage and there's the fear that I will never get my commission back. However, 7 months is a long time to wait and I do not think I am out of bounds in wanting answers and updates, am I?

Thank you for the adivse, it was wise and helpful. You are totally right. I will try and work it out and leave the approperate feedback. Thank you for your time!

 

7 months is WAY excessive!

I really dont understand why a lot of people here.. and its comments I have read again and again... think that being slow to ship is ok. Why???

And I mean a few weeks to "get around to shipping" is too long. Why do people offer things for sale if they KNOW they are going to be "too busy" to get to a post office for awhile? It like.. "I want the money NOW.. but I cant fulfil my end of the deal right away.. but I will get around to it when its convenient for me." - But of course they dont tell you up front - or in the "for sale post" that they cant ship immediately. SO a buyer is left waiting and wondering.. without the money and without the goods. Just because someone "eventually" gets around to shipping - doesnt make them a good trader in my opinion.

 

Meredith I totally agree with you, for myself I expect people to stick to paying me when they say they will. AND I ship the day I say I will !! ok maybe a day late one or two times but never more than a few days late to ship. If I was THAT busy I would not put the item up for sale!! I think its very rude to not ship after payment.

 

THANK you... for awhile thre I really felt I was being unreasonable..LOLOLOLOLOL
Really if people were honest with themselves.. their "too busy" or "something cropped up".. is just another way of saying - "I am lazy and couldnt be bothered and something better came up I wanted to do (read play on the computer, watch tv.. socialise.. have fun - anything other than doing what I committed to do)

 

Jeez well one time I hurt my back so bad I couldn't get off the couch, I had my friend come around and help me as I wrapped the doll up in bubble and instructed her how to assist me so the doll would be packed and labeled perfectly. Then she went and shipped it for me and came back and gave me the signature confirmation slip.

Where theres a WILL there's a WAY!! I said ouch more than once in packing that doll up!

 

I agree with both of you! Now, I know there have been some things that haven happened with this seller, and it was a commission, not a ready made item, so I understand that things happen, it's sometimes things don't turn out. I totally understand that. (The turn over time was suppose to be 2 weeks tho...) I have been more than understanding and nice about it, I have yet to get demanding...But there has been a lack of communication and false promises also. It has supposedly shipped now like 3 times.... -_- and if I cannot get the seller to respond to my pms this time I will be posting them and the entire incident in the bad trades forum.

But thank you for saying that...I too thought that I was only of the few that thought 7 months for a 2 week job is WAY too long with evasive updates and excuses after excuses.

But, I do agree, pay when you say you will, ship when you say you will. A couple of days delay is understandable, but not weeks, not months, and always communicate with the buyer of ANY delay. Treelore's right, where there's a will there's a way!~ That's what I think. ^^

 

Achsfan you yourself are a long time member, I can't see how anyone could have much of anything to say if you were to post of a bad experience with another senior member, From recent events one can surmise even reputable members can fall through, and as much as we all want to give our buyers and sellers the benefit of the doubt when something goes wrong, there really must be a line drawn, it breaks my heart to see members I've dealt with, talked with, and befriended, in the bad traders section, my first instinct is to jump to their defense, but wrong is just that wrong, I do believe in general most try to correct the situation, Sadly not all do, I as a buyer and a seller try to see everyones point of view, I'm the type who would give my eyeteeth if it would make someone else happy, or help them in some way, so yes I would be unlikely to speak out unless it was absolutely necessary, months of waiting and excuses in any situation is unacceptable, and even my placid little self would have to let it be known, Hugs to everone involved I really do hope things work out for all parties...Jeannie K

 

Cursed~ Thank you for that. I really don't want to soil anyone's rep. I want to believe that this will work out all right but my understanding will only go so far when the seller ignors my polite inquiries. Thank you for the encouragement. I too am one of those people who will bend over backwards to correct an oversight or mistake, so I do not understand how someone can take THIS long, give no explenation, lie to me about shipping the item, and than get nasty or ignor me when I inquire about what's going on! And the sad thing is I thought is person was not only trustworthy, that they were a friend. It's sad and disconcerning...

You're right even long time members can surprise you. It's very sad. I thougt Zevchan was on the level too. I too hope things work out for AG and that Zevchan does the right thing in the end. It but a bitter taste to this hobby when things like this happen.

Thanks again for the encouragment. It really helps me deal with this. I'm sorry AG, for highjacking your thread. ^^;;

 

You know, I don't think we actually have a bad traders list, just the sub forum section where you can post good AND bad stuff, like you have done...I think that is all.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, just I've looked too and didn't find one.

 

I'm in the middle of a very slow, uncommunicative transaction as well, however mine has not been going on anywhere near this length of time. I'm simply not willing to accept a months long wait for shipping without a VALID explanation, nor should any other person on this forum. AG, Meredith, my heart goes out to you, as well as my hopes we can all get our dolls home.

I think it's pretty inappropriate for a seller to initiate a transaction, then accept payment for goods she has no time to deliver. As a seller, a shipping delay of more than a week without some kind of communication and a deadline is unacceptable. Keeping a buyer's money or goods hostage for months is ridiculous.

*hugs* AG and Meredith. Hang in there and don't give up.

 

AG..Achsfan..Hang in there! AG I really am sorry about your situation too, I Know Zev from past dealings, she was very nice and I had no problems with her, I hope you and Zev can sort this out, It's actually painful to see this happening, I have a profound respect for my fellow DoA'ers even more so of members more senior than myself, many of them helped shape my love of this hobby...I know if I were in either your or Achsfan's shoes how I would feel, More hugs to both of you

Zev..Hun if you can read this, it's easy for things to get out of hand, or go wrong, in the end it all comes down to making things right, I remember way back when asking you a gazillion questions about a boy in your avatar, you were kind enough to take the time to tell me all about him, and your plans for him, I haven't forgot that or how proud you were of your boy, I can't believe you would intentionally do anyone wrong, AG has been very Kind, It may be hard and it may hurt to admit things went wrong, but after all is said and done, after making things right, I think you'll find the boards can be a very forgiving place..Jeannie

 

AG and everyone else waiting on a doll/head - hope your situations yet resolved this is really disgusting behaviour to hear about.. I feel so lucky to have bought from wonderful sellers in my past and my dolls arriving a few days after payment (even though they were sent from the USA and I live in England). I think even the 21 day initial wait with NO COMMUNICATION was terrible, and to hear it has been 2 and a half months now

I hope you've heard from her now? It says she was last logged in on DOA

Just coz someone's a "senior member" there is no need to expect more from them.. Or that this can excuse their behaviour. Sellers always have a priority to their buyer, I am guessing this doll was $600 if not more, she should have been sent asap no matter what (even if she is so busy blah blah having a hard time.... YAWN). I cannot even dream of not responding to a buyer for longer than 2 days! Or leaving their item here a few days and not posting after they've paid..

 

I have seen this sort of thing time and time again on other dolls boards too… and I find it incredibly freaky almost spooky beyond belief.
Seems some people – the exact minute they receive money for a deal.. so much totally unforeseen bad luck befalls them. I mean the sky falls in on their lives. Now if it happened a day or two after receiving the money – no problem.. the items would be shipped and no-one would be the wiser to all this incredible bad luck. You really have to wonder if receiving money for something you have sold is the catalyst for all this bad luck and hard times.

 

Rin-Rin, I got a pack of five of 'em in the card/party section of Wal-Mart. Let me know if you find them, and if not, I will purchase them and send them, free of charge (well one at any rate )

 

Well... I have JUST received a refund for my "bad" transaction on the 13th January. Amazing what my report to the http://www.ic3.gov/ did. I am not sure what they actually did - but I did let the "seller" know.. both prior to my report (I gave them fair warning and time to remedy before I reported) and as soon as I reported. I finally got them to at least reply to my emails - and then finally about 5 minutes ago.. I got my money back.
So hang in there!

 

^^ We don't have any wal-mart here....and I've checked our lokal supermarkets but we don't seem to have any here...*pouts*
You'd do that? *glomps* I wuv you ...

 

Funny how that seems to happen.... -_-

 

Hey Achsfan, maybe you should post about your problem (er, let me know if you did already)...I'd sure like to know about it anyway, and maybe it can even be resolved...

 

You know, back when the Forum was, like, 300 people, we used to tell people not to discuss their disputes onlist.

But the Forum has grown, and we all don't know each other well anymore - so now we do invite people to openly (and politely) post about problems they may be having - and to leave factual feedback about transactions that other members can read and use to make a decision in their own shopping.

We might moderate such a thread to make sure it doesn't get too chatty - too many posts make a thread hard to read and important information can be lost - and, of course, for personal attacks. ^^;

 

Thank you for the suggestion, Tsuminaki. I fully intend to do so, however, I am giving the seller one more opportinuty to correct the problem. However, so far I seem to be getting no response. If they do not make good on the opportunities I am presenting there will be a thread up in the feedback forum very soon with the full story. I'll be sure to let you know. Thank you for your support. ^^

 

If we were ever naive enough to think that just because we all love dolls, we'd all do right by eachother, its time we opened our eyes. I agree that bad transactions, or those that go on for an unreasonable length of time, need to be posted. Most of the transactions I've had here on DoA have gone very smoothly. And I've been reimbursed when items didn't arrive or were mistakenly double sold to another.

As a seller, you must take responsibility for getting the item your buyer. Sometimes that means getting someone else to ship for you...but make sure this person is trustworthy.

I had an old girlfriend from work re-enter my life around the time I was in the middle of getting Volks Jun for Charlie in the UK. I'm a non-driver, without a way to get to the Post Office when my husband is away on business. This girlfriend convinced me that she would ship the doll for me the following day after we'd gone out and missed getting to the PO because her errands took us so long to do. She then rode around with the doll in her trunk for weeks, giving me excuses, instead of shipping the doll to the UK. In the end, I was able to retrieve the doll, and Jun got to Charlie safe and sound.

This whole incident taught me that if I want something done, I need to find a way to do it myself. And I also make sure to record the other party's contact info, so if DoA should become unavailable for any reason, no one's left in the dark.

It makes me sick to think of how thoughtless and inconsiderate people are becoming of eachother. Are so many feeling so powerless and hopeless in their lives that they get a thrill out of robbing another member here? Don't even get me started on wave of nastiness and foul behavior that can be found in on line journals.

Juli DC

 

I think that sounds like a good idea. I try to do my research before I buy from someone I don't know very well, but if only good transactions are listed, I won't find any bad feedback unless something went *majorly* wrong. It'd be nice to have a place to read about bad and the less-than-stellar deals.

I know I was recently in a group order that I will not leave good feedback for, but because it wasn't really *bad,* they did apparently take care of the issues involved and (as far as I know) everyone *did* get their items in the end, I don't want to make a "negative deal with so-and-so" post. I won't go through the person again, and I wouldn't feel comfortable reccomending them either. I wonder how many people have lost out because the "I wouldn't reccomend them" posts are never made, so they go by the good feedback only.

And I do like Meredith's idea of using a more standard form of leaving feedback. I think I may start doing that myself when I leave good feedback.


AG, I hope everything works out for you!

 

That is scary as I remembered how much Charlie wanted Jun back then and how sweet he was to cheer on the rest of us who were placing our orders with Haute Doll Magazine then to get Jun.

 

Waaaay OT here.. ^ ^;;;

Oww hun, I KNEW it wasnt you..and I thought something like this had happend ^_^
She did get here safe and sounds, and is now much loved cuz of it! *huggs*

Lilian ~ I did spam that post a bit..*giggles* I guess I was hard to forget..

OK, back OT..

AG ~ I've been folowing this topic. *huggles* I really hope it works out for you. Please keep us all updated!

Charlie*^_^*

 

Have you heard anything yet AG?..Hugs...Jeannie

 

Have you heard anything yet, AG? She's been online a couple times this past week....

 

I'm so sorry that this has happened. I've been scamed before and it made me so angry. I really hope that you can either get your doll or get a refund from her.

I don't see how a person doesn't feel guilty about taking someone money.

 

Speaking of bad transactions, I fear of speaking up...mainly because I have been attacked. So danged if you do, danged if you don't.

 

I don't understand it either AG... you could probably drive yourself batty trying to figure out why people do the things they do..but you know what? I was taught from the time I was a little stinker until I was ready to leave home "You just don't take whats not yours for any reason" I teach my own kids the same thing...How anyone could enjoy something that came from being dishonest is beyond me..How can they look at themselves in the mirror and have any sense of self respect..Do they not care that they have hurt someone else..I'm also a firm believer that you reap what you sew..it will eventually catch up to them..they can't be dishonest and expect nothing to happen, somewhere down the road they'll get whats coming to them.

Sorry I don't mean to rant ..It just seems to be happening so much anymore..Hugs to you AG...Jeannie

 

Zev does post actively on her LJ, could we spam her there, or atleast ask questions?