Unresolved Concerning FlightOfSwords

Rotten Lullaby $53
Ashbet $65 – August
Wolfie $94 September
Bloomlikewinter $85 June
Usagi665 $42 October
Nightmare Nurse $45 October
Kotori $88
Frzndaqiri $45 June
Firedancer $200 July
Crescent P $80 July
Krissi - $32 - October
carltoncig - $36.50 - June
Caer- $60
Kat $158
ArvanahModray $35 September
psychodragon82 $172
Rhiii $95 June

Above totals $1387.50


The following mention in the other thread that they haven’t received items or refunds – but no amounts are mentioned.

Xberry Jam


I just copied and updated this info... always a bit hard to find if its in the middle of the thread somewhere. If I have mistyped or missed anyone.. let me know.

 

Cindi,

While I do understand and sympathize (I've been on my own since I was 16, raising a daughter at the same time), I feel like your mistake has been in avoiding owning up to your responsibilities towards those who paid you in good faith. Avoiding people just makes you look shifty, even though it might be hard to admit that you're not going to be able to come through with commissions.

I think that the fairest thing to do would be to repay people in the order that they paid you -- and even if you can't repay the full amount of each commission at one time, a payment plan where you pay in installments would do a lot to restore our belief in your good intentions.

I'm wishing you the best with your new job, and hoping that this can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction as soon as possible.

To everyone else -- please keep this thread updated with any refund payments so that we know what the status is.

Regarding taking out a personal loan -- having been in Cindi's position financially, I can say that it's not always easy or a good idea to take out a loan unless you have excellent credit -- otherwise, the interest rates can be 25% or higher. If it's a possibility, of course, it would be in everyone's best interests to get the debt paid off immediately, but I can state from personal experience that signature loans without collateral aren't always that easy to obtain when you need them, so I'm not suggesting that course of action (unless your bank offers a low-interest option so that it doesn't destroy you financially).

I look forward to hearing some positive updates on this thread soon, and I appreciate your honesty in coming forward, Cindi. Let's hope that we can put all this behind us with a successful resolution.

-- Andi

 

Well when you consider its taking out a loan or being taken to court, I think if it were me I would go for the high percentage loan. Fact is she can't be so fussy.

 

I hate to sound cold, but I need to have the money by April 12, as that is my very last chance to petition my bank for a refund instead. If I do not recieve it or a signed paper copy of a statement promising my money by a deadline, I will have to go to the bank instead as I cannot afford to write this off or continue to trust.

I can sympathize with your situation, Cindi, but that doesn't change the fact that I need the money. I'm planning to attend a private school next year that costs $38,000 per year, and while my parents are going to be paying that much I have to provide all other expense coverage--it will be a hellish year if I can't get the money together, and right now I only get paid $150/month.

 

Well I'm hoping that I wont need a refund she said that my items were done, so I asked her if she could just send mine out, since I always still need pants for my two.

 

In all cruel honesty, that's her problem. We've all heard a half a dozen promises of how she keeps planning to pay us back. I don't want a written budget plan, something else will come up, another excuse.

 

~~~This is the way this situation is going to be taken care of.~~~

I will pay off 1-2 refunds every two weeks (every pay period). It may be just one, depending on the size. I will not take out a loan. My credit history is my business and my choice. Yes, y'all deserve your refunds, and ya'll may think you're above me or better than me, but my life is still my choice and I have a choice as to whether or not I want to go further into debt with a high interest loan. I choose not to, when I can more than adequately cover this with my current pay (and even more so with my possible promotion) given the time.

Y'all will be paid back in a timely manner (every two weeks, as I said) beginning on my next paycheck, which is next Friday. If this does not satisfy, then do what you must, but I have to pay rent and no amount of anyone hating me or being displeased with me and my 'situation' will not change the fact that I do not compromise my home or my job. Even big businesses know that as long as I make a good faith effort to repay, I can not default. And you will know it is a good faith effort to repay when I do repay, on my next paycheck.

To help, I need each of y'all to reply with Paypal addresses and/or real life addresses so I may have it all ready to go when payment is ready to be made.

Again, as I said, I made a mistake, and it took a big shove from y'all to get me to face it, which shouldn't have happened. But when I say I make up for my mistakes, I do. This doesn't mean a lick of anything to anyone, and no one cares a single iota, but I AM a good person, just a little... avoidant. I have murdered no puppies, I have raped no children. I am doing what I can.

 

I would almost believe that story, but the fact that you told me to pay early to be moved up in the queue shows that you felt no remorse at the time for taking orders you know you could not fill, and it was definitely not that you were unsure if you could do the commissions as you had had outstanding ones from July and I ordered in October.

Sick of excuses, could really use my money back right about now, I don't care if you have to pay off high interest, you should have thought of that before taking our money.

 

I have PMed you my Paypal address for a refund~

 

I heavily second that.

Edit: I forgot to put with my total that I paid in September

 

Flightofswords: Caer will PM you with her Paypal address. Since you've made this exact promise before, I'm sure you can understand why we're not trusting you.

If I see *any* indication that you're not living up to your proposed plan, your local authorities will be called. It would be in your best interests to keep an honest, constant update on the status of the refunds, and not to avoid the situation again.

Need I remind you that you've had FIVE months to make this right, which you spent by avoiding the situation by your own choice. If you had perhaps posted these problems before, maybe it would have generated some sympathy, but at this point they just look like excuses. I hope you realize the consequences of your choices: if you take this any farther you could be facing a class-action lawsuit.

 

I've PMed you my paypal address.

I'm afraid you seem to feel that our money is better off with you than it is with us, so I have to say my sympathy for you is extremely limited. I did not go into this transaction intending to be your loan service. If you again offer an excuse rather than a refund don't think I will hesitate to contact the authorities in your area.

 

PM'd my paypal address.

 

I hate to say this, but I would like a partial refund as well. I commissioned some Petite AI sized closed that I sent off for some adjustments and never recieved back. She may know me as my old username: Tochi

 

i paid her 95$ June 2005 ~ >_<
just if you need to update Meredith ~

I've pm her but no reply ~

 

List updated.

What about the outfits that were all ready to send (just waiting on having funds to ship) back in about October - surely it would be a whole lot easier/cheaper to send those out - and not have to refund. Get quite a few people off her back immediately and would show some good faith in trying to redeem this awful situation. Or was that just a time buying excuse and the outfits were not done at all?
I know it would be a lot easier for me to send out for a few dollars shipping (probably was less than $50 in total) - than try and come up with what looks like about $1,400

 

This quote here really tells me she doesn't care about paying you guys back. I would go ahead and try to organize the suit, because it sounds like she is already setting up excuses to fall back on (I didn't get the promotion, I had to pay rent).

She is acting defensive and upset, yet you are the ones she ripped off. Notice she has never mentioned sending out any of the outfits. I suspect the outfits were never made even when she claimed them to be.

I have seen situations like this and in all cases a couple refunds were issued to make everyone relax and then the person dropped off the face of the earth again. Please don't ler this happen to you.

 

First of all, personal loans do not always have super-high interest rates. The bank I work at has rates as low as 4.5% for non-account-holders. If a loan is payed back in a reasonable amount of time (since that big promotion is coming, it shouldn't be a problem!) there will be no damage done to the credit rating. I think a loan is the best way to fix this situation without taking legal measures. Second of all, since FOS shows no desire to do the right thing and take out the aforementioned loan, I encourage everyone here to press the civil suit. This money was STOLEN, and the person who did it should be held accountable. There is no need to accept this payment plan - from what I've seen here, there may only be more excuses and a lack of funds. I know many people are running out of time to get their refunds, and a civil suit may well be your only chance of getting them back.

I know someone will say that since I'm not involved, I should stay out of this. But I'm not involved in this, and yet I am disgusted by what's been done - the bad business ethics, the THEFT, and the sheer nerve of posting sob stories and saying that "I have a right to do what I want to"

 

If it comes down to it... some legal options: (NOTE: I am NOT taking sides. I am merely offering up some options that might be available for anyone who finds themselves in financial battles.)

Those of you who are students at Universities: see if your University offers free legal services.

I DID end up having to sue a hospital in small claims over a medical bill that my insurance paid but which they were trying to double-bill me for as well, and my University's legal service got it all set up for me for nearly free. I paid only an initial consultation fee.

I actually ended up settling before it went to court because the lawsuit finally made the hospital shape up about the bill, but it's deffinately something you guys should look in to.

You can also go to a collection agency if it's a matter of principal rather than getting your money back. They'll get the money (10-50% of it according to the link below), but having a collection agency after you essentially puts a freeze on your ability to get new credit cards and many other financial transactions until you settle up with the collection agency- it's the threat of having one's credit rating torn to itty bitty shreds that makes them effective.
One item probably isn't enough to go to collections over, but if multiple people went to one together...
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/0,4621,303771,00.html
Have some free information.

 

Mm, it's not much, just a simple shirt that was supposed to be one of her standard designs, nothing special. 27$ in July.

Sent a PM for the refund.

Many Big Businesses would have turned any debt over to the Credit Bureau after six months have passed. I'd say three months unreported delinquency is pushing it for large companies. They don't care what you have to do to get money, and promises to pay with the next pay check are a dime a dozen to those companies. They don't care if you have to pay rent, child support, buy groceries, go to the doctor, get a new engine, etcetera.

I think it's a little unfair to suggest the people here think they are above you. Especially when there were people worried about your well being. Those big businesses who supposedly care about "good faith" are much more likely to think that they are above you. But here are a large number of people who have waited very patiently for half a year, some maybe even longer, who decided to continue to trust in everything you said, the promises you made to start making refunds one person per check, quite some time ago.

 

OK, I will post what I have to say and then say no more- I make no judgements about people’s lives or why they do things, what I’m saying is simply about the facts I have seen here.

Mods please delete this if you feel I have no right to get involved.

What you people here need is a legally binding pay plan- the kind they give to people who owe money in court. It’s no good that she’s just saying that she will pay you back- she said that before and did not do it.

Take legal advice, and find a way to legally pin her down so you can get your money back. The idea of a collection agency is a good one, but it might be better to actually file a joint claim. That way, it’s on record and the courts will have the power to back you up if she still will not pay, and there will be no more reasons/excuses (depending on how you see them) for why it will not be paid. Legal pay plans are reasonable- they do not fleece a person’s whole pay check but are carefully worked out so they can still accommodate their financial commitments each month. There will be no need for a loan, and no need to compromise rent payments.

 

It appears there are 18 people - maybe a couple more that are waiting for refunds. So at absolute best - this repayment plan will take 18 weeks if you can manage two refunds per fortnight (your best offer) or one payment per fortnight will drag this out to 36 weeks....
So I guess people here will need to decide whether they wish to wait up to NINE MONTHS - yep.. could be nine months - if nothing else crops up.. for a refund. They will need to decide whether they think waiting up to another 9 months - when most have been already waiting anything from nearly 6 months - to 11 months. So by the times its over - if you stick to your plan - some people may have to wait up to 20 months... That is if everything goes to the promised plan. To date prior "plans" have not come to fruition.

A lot can happen in this sort of timeframe.

The longer it is dragged out.. the less recourse people will have to recover their money via other methods.

Those of you who are owed money will need to consider whether you think this offer "fair and reasonable". Of course you may be one of the earlier refunds and may only need to wait a few weeks - but you also may be one of the last refunds - which could be an 18-36 week wait (this is the "plan")

Flight of Swords feels 18-36 weeks is "more than adequate" - those who are owed the money need to also decide if they feel this is "adequate" from their perspectives.

 

FOS: It has been long enough and you want to drag this FURTHER by giving your paying customers the luxury of having to wait for you every 2 weeks to dish out refunds to 2 lucky people.. get real, how could you spend everyones money? Over $1k on what, you feel no guilt over this otherwise this situation would have been over and dealt with a long time ago. I dont think anyone should care about your personal reasons, get a LOAN out to pay these people they have waited long enough, I think it is very unfair to make them wait even longer for your paychecks.. I'm sure many people have problems on this board without publicly displaying it for others sympathy. Everyone involved I'd suggest you get your money back as soon as possible, she has been giving you empty promises for a long time, what makes this one any more different?

I wasnt involved but I feel bad for everyone..

 

If you are still within the time frame to file a complaint with your bank, DO SO RIGHT AWAY. They take time, you have to fill out forms, they investigate, etc, before they refund you. There is NO harm in filing when you HAVE been ripped off, and it is a much better certainty than trusting someone who has been stringing people along for ages already.

Honestly, I'm suprised anyone can still file, as the limit is usually 60-90 days. But if you can, GO DO IT NOW.

 

I've never ordered from FoS, but people seemed to need info on small claims actions. I don't know how to do a joint action, I'm not sure that you all could in this case, so I would reccommend each of you filing a small claims case against her. (thats 18 seperate court cases she'd have to deal with)

Here is the skinny on small claims. It varies from county to county. First you have to determine where the transaction took place. I'm not a lawyer, so you'll have to read your counties paperwork (free from the courthouse) about which county you need to file in. Usually you can file in

The county the defendant (FoS) lives in.
The county the contract was made in. (you could argue that the contract was made where you live since it was on the internet)

Each person files a seperate small claims filing. The filing fee is typically about 25 dollars.

You have to send her a final demand for payment, prior to filing the paperwork with the courts. Be sure to send it registered mail, if she rejects the letter, that is further proof of her misconduct.

You then file the paperwork and then you get a court date. She has a short time frame to respond, typically 14 days. If she fails to respond, the court finds for you in a default judgment. She is assessed the initial amount, plus your court costs, plus the cost of the registered letter, PLUS what is called a "prevailing party fee" typically 75 dollars (or more)

You get what is called a judgment against her. Now comes the hard part. You now have a legal document that says you can attatch her wages, her bank acount and other such related assets. The courts wont get your money for you, but you can now take formal action against her assets.

If we look at a typical amount that she owes (say 58 dollars). If she owes me 58 dollars and I take her to court, it costs me 6 dollars for a registered letter (estimated) 25 dollars to file the court forms, so another 31 dollars to pursue the case. BUT, when I win the case, FoS has to pay me for the original 58 she owes, plues my costs for bringing the suit, PLUS the prevailing party fee. Grand total she would owe me $164.00. PLUS the court allows 9% interest on the judgment (at least in my county)

If anyone wants help with a small claims suit, I'll help out as I can. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm familiar with some of the forms. Faced with the above senario, I'm thinking that FoS might move forward on refunds and stop giving all of you excuses.

Good luck

semirans

 

Semirans,

This is excellent information, thank you.

I am certain that Cindi doesn't want to have 18 civil suits - and I'm still positive that she wants to do the right thing, so the thought of having to pay extra court fees and associated costs will surely be an incentive to stick to a refund schedule.

 

Does anyone have pictures of these outfits that never materialized? We are talking about some decently large prices, I'm curious as to what people were buying. (Would-be comissioner here, wants to see what people are interested in purchasing.)

Because I feel really bad for everyone...

If any of you are waiting on DOD sized clothes, PM me. If the project is something I can do (I make no promises about if it's something I have the technical skills to do and I have some conditions, that's why I am asking for PMs) I might be able to make it for you for the cost of shipping. I don't really know what sizes are involved and I only sew for DODs.

 

I was waiting on a rather simple pair of white msd sized pants (for my AR boy) with 'bondage' straps. Sadly, I don't have a saved picture anymore, and her website no longer works.

 

Just an update to let y'all know that I did receive my promotion and I'll be able to send the refunds faster. I sent out the first one last night.

 

When you pay someone in full the amount you owe you had better state the ID you paid so that its taken off the list and everyone can see clearly its a real person you paid rather then what could be a made up person.

 

Thank you for the update! Congratulations on your promotion.

 

I'd like to know the names too..I have my own real life issues going on and could really use my refund

 

Heh . . . it was a kimono that I'd designed and was really proud of:



I'll still commission it someday, I think, but some of the joy kind of seeped out of it for me. I'll probably feel better once I've gotten my money back . . . but, yeah, it was supposed to be Kitsuko's default outfit, she still doesn't have a kimono of her own.

FlightOfSwords, I'm really pleased to hear about your promotion, and I'm wishing you luck . . . I hope that this situation can be resolved soon so that we can all move on.

Please post on here when you receive your refund :>

-- Andi

 

Congrats on the promotion, I hope that from here on out things will get better. Good luck ^^

 

Okay, anyone heard which person got this supposed refund, and any news on whether or not others are getting them soon?

 

No-one has come forward to update the list.. or advise they have received a refund. So I have no idea if a refund has been sent (and how it was sent.. Paypal/money order etc) or received - or by whom.
A Paypal payment would show right away - regardless of whether it was cleared or not (e-check, funds etc).. a money order via post is going to take longer... so yep.. probably be good for those owed money to know HOW the refunds will be done.

I very much hope for those who are owed money - that this wasnt just another time buying excuse.

 

I'm not very optimistic

 

Doesnt look good does it. No-one has come forward to say they received a refund and FOS hasnt named who received the "first refund"....

I am really sorry for all those involved. It just appears to be becoming more common on this board at the minute. Very frightening for buyers.
Of course it may be no more common than before.. it could be that it is just brought out in the open more.. and yes I know the membership is growing... so the odds for bad deals increase. But how can you "protect" yourself as a buyer - when previously good traders go bad? Seems past experience is no way of knowing whether you are safe to send money - is it?

 

BTW - I have just completed a report for a fraud I was the victim of (not relating to this issue at all). So if anyone wants to try a deal with this situation themselves and not wait any longer for any more excuses here is the web address to file a complaint with the FBI for internet fraud:

http://www.ic3.gov/

It is very easy to complete. The more people who report the same person or business - the more likely action will be taken.

There are other sites to report to as well...
This is the National Fraud Investigation Centre - who will review the info and pass on the report to the appropriate law inforecement office:

Once again - the more people who report - the more likely action will happen - especially when they see the $ involved in total.
http://www.fraud.org/info/contactnfic.htm

 

I thought about this for a bit, and I came up with a few ideas. First of all, be aware of the warning signs. Generally it starts with a lack of communication after the sale. Then the buyer pokes the seller, and gets an apologetic response with excuses like I've been ill, car broke down, can't make it the post office, etc. Promises are made, then the person disappears again. Now you continually have to bother the person for updates, and you only get a response after several messages/ PMs. Responses contain more excuses. If you ask for pictures, the camera is broken, stolen, dead battery, borrowed by a friend, etc.

Finally, you get no responses at all, and it's like the person vanished, tho stalking him or her in other places, like LiveJournal, reveal he or she is alive and well. By the time you get to this point, it's been three months, and you can't get a refund. Congratulations, you've been robbed. ><

So my suggestions are the following:

When you get to the point that they're giving you excuses, and you have to ask for any info, post a thread here on DoA and see if anyone else is having trouble. Sometimes it does turn out it is a trustworthy person just hitting a rough spot, and things get resolved. But more often it seems we get a lot of replies going, "Hey, they owe me something too." and then the next person is like, "They've owed me that for three months now!" and soon you have a list of stiffed buyers that adds up to a considerable amount.

Second, keep track of the 45 days with PayPal and if you don't have your item by then, FILE FOR THE REFUND. No matter how nice the person has seemed, or how many excuses they've given you, or promise to have it made in another day, or how much you WANT the item. Really, what scammers operate on is DESIRE. They are counting on the fact you will want the item too much to cancel the transaction, even if it is taking longer than they promised or you expected.

If the person really is honest, you could always pay them again later as a new transaction, and then they'd have another 45 days to get you the item. Just say something like, no hard feelings, but since you are going through a bad time, I would just like my money back. So I am filing for a refund. I can pay you again for it later when you have more time to make it.

Anyway, I hope that helps. ^____^

 

I think what emmbee says it the best thing to do!!

 

I think your suggestion of the Paypal timeframe is very logical. After all.. if a seller is so booked up with orders - that they cannot get to your items within 45 days - they probably shouldnt be taking any money/deposits until they are much closer to the time they will be ready to start your items.

Personally as a seller I will not take any payment until such time the garments are ready to ship - yes I know thats only my choice. But I dont want the pressure on me, I dont want to be paid for work I have yet to do - and for a few other reasons. So basically until I sent out the photos of the completed items for approval - I dont want any money from the buyer.
There is now way I can keep money and not do the work! Sure - there is a risk if you are making something a little off beat - that the buyer changes their mind and you are left with a garment that you might feel wont appeal to enough people to be able to then make a sale on eBay or here or whatever. And really... if your "business" is running so close to the bone - that you require a deposit or full payment - JUST so you have the funds to purchase the supplies - that initself can lead to disaster.

But you are dead right about the scenario... and thats not JUST here. I have seen the same in other sales areas.. the excuses (and they are nearly all the same - no-one is even creative with excuses!) and the non contact and the hiding... classic signs..The only pity is you have already handed over your money! Some forms of payment are going to be very difficult - if not impossible to recover - so as buyers we need to be aware of the plusses an minuses of all forms of payments.

So I take it no-one has received a refund yet?


Sorry all.. but I think you have been lied to AGAIN.

 

Thats pretty sad. Unless the first was not a DoA member. I dunno.

I totally agree with you.

 

Rotten Lullaby $53
Ashbet $65 &#8211; August
Wolfie $94 September
Bloomlikewinter $85 June
Usagi665 $42 October
Nightmare Nurse $45 October
Kotori $88
Frzndaqiri $45 June
Firedancer $200 July
Crescent P $80 July
Krissi - $32 - October
carltoncig - $36.50 - June
Caer- $60
Kat $158
ArvanahModray $35 September
psychodragon82 $172
Rhiii $95 June
Xberry Jam

So have ANY of the above people received a refund?

ONE refund per fortnight would take 36 weeks to get this sorted out....
So far FoS said she has refunded one person (this was 2 weeks ago) - no-one has yet to confirm that - maybe it wasnt anyone who was on the list. If so.. the 36 weeks could be even longer if there are others owed money.

It also looks like the "plan" has already hit some new snags....

Wolfie - I hope you didnt let the date to claim with your bank pass by.. as things dont look too promising here waiting on FoS to remedy the situation.

 

Hm. I signed into my paypal account today, and apparently I was the one who got the refund. O_o I'm not sure why I didn't get an email notification from paypal, or I would have said something sooner.

27.00

 

That is odd that you didn't get an e-mail notification. No spam blocking got it did it? But it is good to know you did get one.

Perhaps mention how much it was so your name can be added to the list and noted as being payed.

Meredith - October was when mine was received by her.

 

I am soooooo glad to hear this! I found out that I actually didn't have until April 12 like I thought, my ank has changed its policy and I had already missed my last chance date by several months.

Here's to a continuation of the refunds!

 

Rotten Lullaby $53
Ashbet $65 &#8211; August
Wolfie $94 September
Bloomlikewinter $85 June
Usagi665 $42 October
Nightmare Nurse $45 October
Kotori $88 October
Frzndaqiri $45 June
Firedancer $200 July
Crescent P $80 July
Krissi - $32 - October
carltoncig - $36.50 - June 2005 - Received Item April 19, 2006
Caer- $60
Kat $158
ArvanahModray $35 September
psychodragon82 $172
Rhiii $95 June
Xberry Jam
Chia REFUNDED

 

I got a refund from Kit Kyat, and it didn't tell me until I asked her and she gave me the transaction number - my boyfriend had spend it without noticing it either. I don't think they notify people anymore.

 

So, anyone notice anything about the 27 dollars compared to the rest of that list? ^^; I'd be curious to know where Chia's order stands in the timeline of them all.

 

I don't have the PM anymore, but it was summer of last year, around early July. Somewhere in there.

 

I wanted to let you all know, that I checked my mail this morning, and I got the item I had ordered from her. So you can take me off the list.

 

Can we see? I'd love to know what kind of outfit took almost a year to show up?

 

I am hoping to have a photoshoot tomorrow. If I get a chance to will post them.

 

Fantastic!! Congratulations! Good news.

 

congrats, good to see you actually got what you ordered. I know I would not mind at all if I got what I ordered too. even if I had to wait so long for it.

 

Glad to see refunds and items coming, hopefully she'll send out more soon.

 

Carltoncig great to know your items came in, she said she found mine so I hope I'll get them in the mail soon...but she would still owe me $15 for a shirt.
I hope everything goes good ^^
Edit: I got something in the mail today ^^ It was all three of my items XD Yay!! So please take me off the list
Good luck to everyone~