BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

Additional talk.


1. Cocoriang's first doll ever, Pepe the rabbit was recasted right after they made it. It's a rare thing to happen and it was their first doll. Cocoriang's sculptor and other staff members were going through depression from it.
All of their hard work just got stolen in a second.

2. Iplehouse's company size is smaller than what is used to be. Like they had to reduce cost and staffs and now they are 1/2 of what they were used to be. They aren't doing much of what they used to do.
This isn't just about Iplehouse, it's story of most of the BJD companies.

3. Size of that recast factories are bigger than the size of Seoul city; 605.2 km².

3. Dollshe also suffers from all the recasts, financial wise yes. I will not tell the personal details but jsyk

4. From Cocoriang's research done, most people's favorite company who sells Minifees, Fairyland been robbed US$ 360,000.00 past year. This is not accurate and will be the bottom line calculation from them catching on sales of recasts on Ali/eBay/Amazon, etc
That's just for the Fairyland from 2017. From what we could catch.

5. Lilycat's recast was on Amazon. Someone bought it and sent email to Lilycat.
Lilycat asked that person to do the refund because it's recast but the person decided not to refund but keep the recast. In direct email to Lilycat.

 

UPDATE

Just talked to Cocoriang on a lawsuit against recast and they said

Sadol / Dollshe / Soom
They are the big three companies in charge / as spokesperson
and Korean government is funding them with US$ 100,000.00

Also they will need to collect some online signatures / petitions from communities to pursue further.
(And yes it's going to be worldwide petition, so everyone from everywhere can sign up)

Stay tuned my friends : )

 

It may not help much, but I posted this on the German doll forums I am a member in. This really is bad news, but thank you so much for informing us. Information is half the fight.

 

@Gockt Thank you so much for informing the community here. I'm glad to know everyone has been contacted. I'm happy that the ones affected in South Korea are working together. My hope is that all the legit BJD makers, and other legit doll makers can form an International Trade Association to combat recasting together. BJDs are not alone when it comes to recasted/stolen dolls. This is a problem for all high-end and popular dolls. Many other industries do this, and they have had some significant success such as fashion design houses, candle makers and such, there are people being caught and prosecuted for their criminal activity everyday.

I hope when the petitions are available, DoA will do a huge announcement like they have for the top banner. I know the community will spread it like wild fire.

Sadly, not all people that buy recasts know that they are being scammed. Education is the best way to help, but moving forward, it would be great to know how to advise anyone that has already been scammed this way to know what to do. It's very, very unfortunate that even when someone becomes aware they have been scammed, they don't contest that fact with the scam vendor. I hope this isn't the norm, but I do know of some collectors that have been scammed and didn't know how to handle that beyond vigilance moving forward.

When reporting recasts..... I have heard that eBay, for example, will only remove listings if the owner of the intellectual property is contesting the listing's legitimacy. Is this also true of other sites such as Amazon, Ali Express, etc...... is there a contact list for different doll companies to notify them of a scam listings?

 

@Gockt thank you for sharing the updates. great news re. KR govt support.

@mollym
according to this US govt site, only IP rights holders (and their agents) can report infringement on the major ecommerce sites https://www.stopfakes.gov/article?i...g-E-Commerce-and-Social-Media-Reporting-Tools

since the doll makers are all aware, hopefully they have already made the necessary reports. ^^ (the page above also link to each selling / social media sites' requirements)

 

I’m very glad we have the bjd community to support our favorite companies. I’ve been reflecting on this situation and all I can feel is grateful that there are resources for not only learning about recasts but helping people identify them. I am certain that if recasting contininues to be profitable eventually most people will find it very hard to tell the difference as even packaging and COAs can be duplicated with enough money. I think both reputation and expertise from our senior members will be invaluable as time goes on.

And I feel terrible for all the artists and companies going through this.

 

@Gockt Thank you so much for this information. I saw your updates floating around instagram. The amount of money fairyland has lost to recasts is staggering. I'm really shocked, to be honest. I knew the amount of money fairyland has lost out on would be a lot, as minifees are definitely the most recasted dolls, but to know that it is upwards of US$ 360,000 really makes me sad.

Good luck to the companies pursuing the lawsuit. I feel hopeful and look forward to the online petition.

 

@Gockt good to hear there is some development on the bjd makers side. And thanks for sharing the info, those numbers of what fair and are so high! I mean I know they were recasted allot.. But it's happening that much, that there are so much people buying recast, I just couldn't imagine.

 

[UPDATE]

1st meeting/conference happening on 21st June, 2018.

2nd meeting/conference date unknown. For the 2nd one there will be more companies rally against.


If companies wishes to share evidence or references and etc to public. I'll deliver it to here. Because some people are already calling this as bullshit lol

 

It's good to get the updates! I'm schocked to hear how big the factory is and how large scale this has gotten
I suppose China does have big factories. I'm happy to hear we will at least be able to show out support in a helpful way!
I know the first time I heard of Cocoriang was hearing their first doll had been recasted, it was a sad way to find out about a new studio and scary because I was working on my first doll who was also an anthro.

 

Same. My mind is boggling about how big @Gockt said the recaster’s factory is. 605.2 KM??? I just can’t imagine it and am surprised there’s that much money in doll making to necessitate a facility so large.

 

I suspect that's the factory complex's size rather than any one specific recast producer's facilities.... Meaning it houses a lot of manufacturing, and not just our little niche hobby's fake dolls.

 

@riversoblood

I'll clear this up. So the factories that are larger than Seoul city, is DEDICATED TO MAKE FAKE STUFFS.
and the recast BJD factories are within that area. P much, that factory area is where they make fake brand shoes/watches/bag/clothes etcs :/

 

Dollshe and Iplehouse USA trademarks are now published for opposition!

Dollshe notice of publication link.
Iplehouse notice of publication link.

 

Did Iplehouse and other companies already report those recast sellers to ebay for selling fakes? Maybe that way they can get at least some of those doll listings taken down. I know. It's like fighting a hydra - close down one seller, there's gonna be two new ones the very next day (or hour) ...

 

I guess only citizens of the United States can do anything? Or the affected manufacturers themselves? Does this work like a wedding ceremony - as soon as rings are changed, it is game over?

 

Ohhh, I get it! Thanks for clearing that up. Man, so it’s like a giant den of thieves.

 

Recasting is horrible.

The fact that this guy is able to do all of this on top of all of the blatant recasters I see on eBay infuriates me.

 

@Gockt Are there any updates on how the first "meeting" went on the 21st? I just want some good news, but any progress in a good direction would really do well to lift my spirits....

 

today I was looking with google for a guitar in 1/3 size and there suddenly was a picture of iplehouse leonard, but the price is very low so it can't be real, but they use the name iplehouse, a picture with a plate on the back of his head etc etc etc.......I can understand why people think they would buy a real one......they have a lot more dolls but with the most they claim it is recast, but didn't see that with the iplehouse one................I only buy dolls from the company or official dealers and if second hand I trust the people here on doa that they are selling the real one.............I was shocked....they are hurting so many company's and all without shame...........unbelievable

 

Boop I'll leave brief update!
Since they need to organize a bit


The meeting happened on 21st of June
- Hired ENTIRE lawyer office
- SIX lawyers, who are experienced with winning on trademark issue happened in China past times.

 

Ah that is some good news! And I'm sorry if I missed it somewhere, which of the doll companies will they be representing again? Thanks for keeping us updated!!

 

Wow, I finally see some light in the end of the tunnel! Its just infortune not all companies are in this deal, cause some are really small ):

 

More detailed updates

It's going to take at least three years.

1) They are going to fight over trademarks; about a year-long process
2) Register themselves as rightful owner; about a six-month-long process
3) Sue LUO in China, and take all of his counterfeit BJD dolls; about a year-long process

 

Oh, the 3rd step is going to the hobbie so well! I'm happy it was decided like this. But for the 3rd to work 1st and 2nd must go well, so lets root for the companies!

 

Ahhhh hopefully this gets us somewhere! I'll be here waving my flags and urging the companies on, willing them to stay strong in this fight.

 

Oh, we're all wishing them the best of luck *.*
Thank you for keeping us informed @Gockt !
Even if not all companies and artists can be a part of it hopefully if things work out the example will help protect them too!

 

I think @Gockt said it was Sadol, Dollshe & Soom. But I don't know if others are involved, those are just the ones I saw Gockt mention, hope that helps

 

Great to hear there are some clear steps now! Two years are well worth it . I do wonder tho, how will they be able to get all the recast? Or do you mean the molds? Like it sounds impossible to track all the sold dolls. And even with the molds disposed off couldn't he be holding a few back in secret and after a while secretly start over again? Sorry for playing the devils advocate, don't want to trample the hope :/

 

I'm super glad to hear that the BJD companies are fighting back against this unrepentant and shameless thief!
Wish it could happen a heck of a lot sooner than 1 to 3 years, though. But hey, it's good that they're going to bat for
each other!

 

They are only the biggers in the group, cocoriang is the one in the group sending the informations, chicabi, be with you, darak-i, migi doll and rosen lied are also included.

 

@Mademoiselle Grymms
I guess all the premade recast BJDs and molds as well. There's no point if you don't get rid of the mold, right? lol
Since they are going to do some lawsuit on LUO inside of his own country; China, if he does suspicious activity in the future, then he might be just being an idiot for sure.

We cannot track down all the recast dolls, because it's lots of time and work for sure, and there's not really a nailing proof that they are recast if they reject to cooperate. I don't know how that part works either and that's not a big concern right now :8
I heard you cannot buy counterfeit goods in US it's against law, and I do know some countries takes selling counterfeit goods are the illegal action as well. but again, that's just way too complicated DX


BUT SIDE TALK, in Canadaland there's place called Pacific Mall and this happened yesterday
Police raid finds thousands of counterfeit items at Pacific Mall


"Counterfeit goods, whether smuggled into the country or produced in Canada, represent a financial loss to legitimate businesses, governments and taxpayers. As these goods are often cheaply made and not up to Canadian standards, they not only defraud consumers but may also pose risks to consumer safety."


And this is York Regional Police news

 

@Gockt Thanks for the insight ^^

 

Thank you for updating! I really do hope that the Luo's buisiness will be closed!

 

Wow; up to 5 years in jail for selling counterfeit goods in Canada... I wonder if similar charges are a risk to individual recast owners selling their secondhand dolls, or if that's for retail shops only?

 

@Doll-Mage As long as people can nail it down as THEY ARE SELLING COUNTERFEIT STUFFS, then yeh you can report them for sure. But I guess you need more proof then that, otherwise it's just witch hunt.

I've started wonder and if we can just report those IG photos with recast friendly user, or recast 2nd hand market people on FB, for owning/buying counterfeit goods. hmmm..... what do you all think :U
But again, we need to have proof that it IS counterfeit dolls.

 

I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the US, it's like this:

• If you unknowingly buy/sell a counterfeit good, it is not illegal. You were unaware.
  
• If you purchase a counterfeit good for personal use (so you're not planning to resell the counterfeit item, stock it in your store, etc.), it is illegal, but you won't be prosecuted for it (in most cases).
  
• If you knowingly sell a counterfeit good, that is illegal and a felony. I believe even on your first offense, it is considered a felony. Something like selling 10-15 counterfeit Gucci purses is obviously going to get you more time than one recast doll, but you are at the very least looking at a hefty fine if you get caught selling any type of counterfeit.

Please do report sales posts for recasts to Facebook and Instagram. It violates the Facebook Commerce Policies (Point 17- Third-Party Infringement). Instagram, being a Facebook property, also uses these commerce policies. For additional information, please see this Facebook article. Facebook not removing recast sales posts does not mean they're okay. It means someone needs to report the post, because (let's be honest), the counterfeit detection team is not looking for fake dolls. It's looking for fake cosmetics, designer goods, and electronics. The report button is there for a reason, though, and that's to help notify Facebook/Instagram of rule violations when they can't catch it themselves.

I hope this helped answer any questions.

 

As far as I know it's like that in Canada too.
People are generally assumed to be a victim when purchasing counterfeit goods and it's difficult to prove if people know or not so for buyers they generally don't bother. Selling them is where they go after you.

 

Its also like this here in Brazil, counterfeit goods can be for personal use without being considered a crime, they take the problem as who sells not as who buy or use it for free.

 

I see this as something that will only drive the divide between people, as opposed to encouraging them to go legit. Also, if someone is ID'd as recast friendly simply for being in a FB group or because they use a hashtag, I see that as a form of bullying and bordering harassment of people repeatedly report, message, call for other people to "do something". I prefer education, although i understand that doesn't work for everyone. Positive reinforcement is a better way to go by encouraging legit collection rather than playing social media police and creating an us vs them atmosphere in the hobby.

 

I'm really not into a witch-hunting, @PChu, but education won't work in the most cases. Only a small piece of recast owners don't know that their doll isn't legit and they hurt legit companies. Pro-recasters usually know about it, but having a doll they wouldn't afford in any other way is the most important thing for them. They know that there are cheaper legit companies, but it doesn't matter, they just want a SOOM or Minifee. They think that when we tell them: "Hey, you can just save money for legit dolls like me and many other owners" we bully them and if we don't tolerate counterfeits on our meetings, it means that we are aggressive elitists. They just don't care. They don't care about artists, they don't care about companies, they don't care about the hobby, they even don't care about dolls. They care only about themselves. I totally appreciate your good intentions, but I'm afraid you won't get many positive results.

 

It's just double edge sword problem for sure.

I'm sure all the community is disgusted to see those hashtags on IG or FB saying recast/recast friendly / recast owner sorta thing.
But what can we do about it, if we report then yes it might turn into harassment and witch hunt, but then we don't want them to continue posting those counterfeit dolls online

I just find most of the people who owe recasts continuously buy recasts afterwords even they know about legit.
Because, lmao they can buy 5 minifee with a budget that's equal to 1 legit minifee dolls.

 

Personally, I don't care whether persons who knowingly, repeatedly buy recasts go livid about being reported and possibly banned for posting those recasts on IG or FB as long as the reporting happens in accordance with IG's and FB's rules (like, say, if there's a rule "no sales of counterfeit goods" then report them if they're trying to sell their recast - they are knowingly violating the rules in that case). They've shown repeatedly they don't care so why should we spare their poor widdle feelings?

It's one thing to buy a recast by mistake, because you didn't know better. That can happen (and much too easily, nowadays). It's another thing if you're told about the problem and then decide to still keep buying recasts. Their cheap excuses for buying recasts are just that - cheap excuses. (Too poor? Save up! Not available in the resin colour you want? Well - tough luck. Big bad overpricing companies? Disproven again and again and AGAIN. etcetc)

 

This whole thing is just completely heartbreaking. I haven't been a part of this hobby for very long, but with this development I feel it is growing more and more fragile by the day. I honestly fear for this hobby's longevity, never-mind the fact that the community is so very deeply divided.

 

And this is the thing I really, really hate about pro-recast people. I often see confessions like: "Oh, I love this sculpt! I really do hope that L/S will recast it!". It's something like: "I am not a thief, but I have no problems with paying somebody for stealing something for me. And because I personally think that legit dolls are too expensive - and my opinion is the only one that counts, of course - I have to punish a company by buying recast, because I AM SO SPECIAL and selling a doll TO ME by the price I like is the company's responsibility!".

Damn, I am so angry. Why those people are so unethical?! Aren't they ashames of themselves?

 

Lmao alright I'll shush and keep update on lawsuit issue.
Peace out

 

I read this thread with horror and had no concept of how bad it was....very bad.

Thou shalt not steal. Amen.

 

Hi, just wanted to chime in as a direct victim of Luo’s (and countless ghost accounts) crimes.

We’ve been fighting recasts for over a year now and we’ve done all we could in order to protect ourselves. Everything is registered, copyrighted, trademarked, you name it. But that alone won’t stop these guys.

We would like to offer our help or join other affected companies in their efforts to shut down these thieves.
If anyone needs our help please contact us at [email protected], and if you know of any current developments regarding this topic or any class action lawsuit going on at the moment, we would really appreciate more information on that as well.

We’re a tiny company of two people, but we’re already working with lawyers and we’re determined to end this illegal business by any means necessary.

Thanks in advance for your help

 

Thank you for the information, @Sakuli! Can I tell about your offer on my personal blog?

 

Of course. We probably can't do much by ourselves, but anyone willing to join forces with us will be welcomed. Feel free to spread the word. Thanks!

 

It looks like it's a sad day for us. It looks like one of the recasters got Loong Soul's Celestial Dog and sells his recasts. Of course, pro-recast people are very happy!

Is there anything we can do?

 

Hope China will start respecting intellectual property rights? I don't see how anyone has much leverage over them short of stiff tariffs (like 100%) on the whole industry which wouldn't get anywhere due to the interests of Mattel etc.

 

They are now using the Iplehouse name in their store-front address on AliExpress. I won’t link it for obvious reasons. I found it when I searched ‘Iplehouse’ after seeing a beautiful doll couple here in the Gallery and I wanted to look at the sculpts.
But the fake shop comes up for me as the entire first page of results in a google search with Iplehouse’s real website buried 30 results down.

 

LUTS has published some info. and a statement on their situation

 

There is one recast shop that has the Iplehouse trademark certificate, no lie and it says iple house the magic doll grow and play together...…..ewww…… they have just about all the dolls too from HID to BID and even FID. I even saw the back of a recast head and the head plate is spot on, now that is too scary!

 

Is there any news on the lawsuit(s) against Luo Ligui??? I kept hearing how some major BJD companies were teaming up together to send this scumbag to jail (or at least fine the crap out of him) but have since not heard any news of a lawsuit occurring. If anyone has any info please let us know because I think we can all agree how horrible this person's actions are and wish to see him be punished for his crimes...

 

In all likelihood, I should think it'll be while before we hear anything as legal matters can take forever just to get started.

 

I hope this is allowed because dealing with recasts in the hobby spaces online and off IS a growing problem. I don't see it improving at the moment unfortunately, rather the opposite and many people are asking this question, 'What can we do?' among ourselves.

IMO, stand strong and positive in support for artists, post in and support the legit-only forums and groups, leave the ones that tolerate recasts...keep everything from local meets and to bigger gatherings legit only, speak out in a positive but absolute way in support of welcoming legit dolls only with zero tolerance for recasts. As a hobbyist, I can't get behind the negativity of fighting with people over it or being mean to someone but I do NOT have to interact with or include in hobby spaces...these people who choose to buy and continue to support recast goods either. That's where I think the main conflict comes, in standing up and saying,
"No recasts are allowed in the legit spaces, period!"
And then following through on it at every level, even when it means having the courage to ask someone politely to remove a recast or asking them to leave or not attend/post if they violate the rules and bring one into the hobby spaces online or at your local meet. Another very good reason to plan your meets on DoA, and encourage membership here, using our doll profiles to detail provenance, posting meet photos here, etc...IMO.

Early on, I took the stance of considering the recasts in the same way I would consider any other fake/bootleg pieces in any other luxury goods hobby arena, where they have dealt with fakes for a long time. Fake goods are not tolerated, they are not even considered a part of the hobby, and they simply don't allow bootlegs anywhere in these hobby spaces and we shouldn't allow them anywhere in the doll community either. You aren't allowed to participate in the luxury purse and handbag or shoe hobby with a bootleg, for example...you will get kicked from the forums and escorted from the real-life buy/sell events if you post with or show up carrying a fake.

In the beginning I'm sure a few people DID get duped into buying some recasts, the information was not widespread like it is now but the key difference is that those people either sold off or 'put away for good' those dolls once they found out what was happening and now only support legit companies and doll makers. These days, the information is everywhere you look when you search 'bjd' so the 'I didn't know' excuse has really become just that, an excuse...because now the recast warnings and information on dolls is ubiquitous.

 

I'd like to add to that: And just ignore those recast-owners or -defenders who're trying to guilt you into interacting with them by calling you a bully for ignoring them. Ignoring someone isn't bullying. I ignore plenty of people every day, on my way to work, on my way back home, when I'm grocery shopping, etc. Not a single one of them, so far, has walked up to me and told me "Yo! Stop bullying me!" If you don't want to have anything to do with them then it's your right to ignore them.