BJD makers threatened by China-based counterfeiter / trademarks

I have to say though, that the paper is not exactly the same thankfully, Iplehoue's COA paper has an iridescence to it (it's a pinkish hue at that) so at least the fake COA's Luo is making aren't completely identical. Still sad for anyone who does not know about it, but at least newbies could ask the community for help with identifying fake COA's if their not sure.

 

I've always wondered why artists/companies don't sign their dolls. Like with something permanent (marker/ink) on an internal location, like the inside of a head cap. And I say marker/ink because that unique marking will not be transferred to the recast because it's flat, and each signature's position inside the headcap might be in a slightly different location each time. I don't think a recasting company would be able to master each artist's/company's unique signature.
Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking... I'm just thinking of Pawn Stars when they call in their signature expert to authenticate celebrity autographs...

 

Yes, but people need to be aware of this differences before they are able to help.
Like, here on doa you cant ask in a thread if its legit or not, you need to send moderators a question, because they are less people there is less chance of them knowing about all the details for all the companies they are copying the coa.
This kind of details can also vary from picture to picture (light, angle and so on), so its easier to fool someone and that person would only notice when it arrived.

Signatures can vary a little, and because of this is easy to copy. I'm kpop fan, and some people copy idols autographs to sell, so I can say its not that hard depending on how used you are to this "copying" thing. Is not like we would be able to call a signature expert evertime we want to buy a doll.

 

Do the real COA's have the space in the middle of the name? I notice the header on Iple's site has the space but everyplace else on the site has Iplehouse together, including the text under the US Copyright seal.

 

I also wondered about it in the start of the copyright issue because they trademarked both "iple house" and "iplehouse" in china, but for usa/EU they only trademarket "iple house"...



ALSO, I CHECKED FOR UPDATES AGAIN, AND THERE IS SOME FROM MAY 16:

The 3 USA's trademarks (except for fairyland's one) are now as "PUBLICATION/ISSUE REVIEW COMPLETE". They are to be published for oposition @ june 19.

 

My certificate from inside and envelope has the space in between like iple house with small letters, but when the certificate is folded onto itself, the word is joined together like IPLEHOUSE in big letters, the part that folds in the front on the certificate not the envelope

Odii&Thaer&theCD I dont know what iredescent means exactly so I checked google, and found out it is like pearl shiny, but my card is white with texture and only the silver/grey front part is shiny if reflected on light I know it is legit because I am first owner so maybe my eyes are bad or they change it

 

I just checked my FID Rex certification and it does have a slight iridescent look to it, also be aware if you get a older Iplehouse doll the older COA is very different as well. My Iplehouse JID Ryan has a different style COA than my FID Rex.

 

And because the Mods aren't idiots, they consult knowledgeable DOA members privately when they need physical evidence or comparisons about dolls they don't personally own.

 

Which can take quite a while and the person may lose the oportunity to buy the doll, if its a great deal. Also, there is still a chance the member they contact doesnt notice all the details, so is still not the same as having many people giving their opinion.

 

This is so frustrating, opposition means people in the US can start sending letters to the trademark organization to provide proofs that Luo's logo and name are stolen from the original companies, right? You guys in the US can start fighting?

I haven't checked my Iplehouse certificates (not home at the moment), but I'll check as soon as I get home.

Maybe to check whether the doll is recast or not, just ask the seller to provide photos of the inner parts, where the strings go. As far as I know, the recast ones cannot completely copy the holes?

 

Which is still preferable to possibly buying a recast. I'd rather lose out on a great deal than buy a doll I'm not sure is legit ...

 

So how does this opposition stuff work? Can we start submitting evidence or does it have to be the company? I figure we should prepare if we can.

 

Thats obvious, I just meant the way doa (and some more conservative people) deal with it is not the best. The knowledge should be out there for easy acess so everyone will be able to avoid buying a recast.

It has to be done by the one's who will dispute the right, in the case, the companies.

@mangameow Napi answered the email:

 

I wonder if it's normal to feel anxious over the silent companies... I mean, we've been contacting several companies without any response. They never post a notice about this problem too... I just hope it doesn't mean that they give up with this situation.

I guess, I'd be even more thorough when buying 2nd hand dolls right now. If the seller can't provide any solid proof of the previous ownership and order number that can be checked, I'll choose to skip the dolls...

 

But how can you expect anyone to provide an "order number that can be checked" for a doll bought -- for instance -- twelve years ago from a company that's now closed?

I understand your concerns, but not every legitimate doll fits into the narrow set of purchase conditions that you seem to take for granted.

 

That is the part I meant, the sliver part is iridescent, from what I could see of the fake one that part is not (though I would have to see one in-person to know for sure).

 

I know what you mean, cause I also have a doll that I purchased long time ago and the company is no longer to be found. It will be hard to track down the data plus they didn't produce COA for older dolls at that time.

I also mentioned about solid proof of the previous ownership. What I mean here is, if the seller can't provide the data about the owners before him/her (that if the doll isn't bought first hand by the seller), doesn't have any information about the initial purchase or just simply doesn't want to share anything that can support the legitimacy of the doll... then I can't continue the deal.

But that's for me of course, I don't think it can be applied to everyone.. I also don't (and never) recommend people to do what I'll do. I'm sure someone else will still buy the doll and can find other way to prove that the doll is legit.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone with my wording and way of thinking.

 

This thinking is the unhelpful and unfortunate start of what is becoming a pretty nasty reality for a lot of us. A wealth of us who have been in this hobby for a decade plus have dolls that have no certificates, we can't provide order numbers or details since the companies may have closed, or dumped their databases, maybe we didn't post pictures online, maybe we didn't keep boxes, maybe the sales we took part in here or elsewhere are vanished into the ether. What exactly are we supposed to do here? I'd genuinely love to know because the alternative (and one which certainly in the UK, I'm already seeing happen) is all of us going to ebay and not bothering with the forums at all any longer. I don't want to have to do it, but this sort of thinking leaves people like me with little choice and the forums here with far less regular users.

 

How can one follow the progress of the trademark process? or challenges to the trademark grab by the different companies involved?
China has been historically lax in observing intellectual ownership laws.

 

Well, I guess then you and I will never enter into a deal, then, since with as many dolls as I own, there's quite a number where the company doesn't exist anymore and of course I didn't keep any receipts since I simply didn't know about recasts, back in 2008. There's also quite a number of dolls I bought here on DoA where I didn't keep any receipts or write down who I bought them from, either, and that came without their original box (it's usually cheaper to ship a doll unstrung, in a smaller box). It's been YEARS in many cases and I simply don't remember (and the space in the DoA inbox is finite, meaning I delete old stuff now and then). And then there's all those dolls (at least half of my Volks crew) I bought on Mandarake, some with headplates and papers and box, some with original full-set and face-up, some only with headplates, some without headplates, due to the dolls being made when headplates weren't a thing, yet ...

 

The main reason I think people don't do this is because recasters also read this information and are able to change their products to make them harder to differentiate from the original.

 

I'm sorry to say that, but I wouldnt buy a doll without coa or original box, online history or something. I know its totally possible to be original, but when we can buy from people who have proofs, why would we buy from the questionable ones? Unless of course it was a grail or something hard to obtain.

Yes, I actually do understand this. But recasters will put their hands on original and find the differences anyway, this over protectionism hurt newbies more than anyone. If you see other collection communities (not dolls, but brand clothes, eletronics and so on), they are already over all this and just want people to know how to not be foolled.

 

Because it throws more than half of the community under the bus of never being able to sell a second hand doll again, thereby rendering that money unlikely to be used to keep the companies in business by buying new dolls? Because you have to have some basic trust in the users of a well regulated marketplace like here because we have a feedback system that's been running for a decade plus?

Honestly, this whole thread is just giving me a massive list of people I will never deal with in an MP transaction because they have no basic trust in the system here, so why should I trust them? Guess I'm off to ebay with my perfectly legit resin sales, then. Lovely and welcoming, here, amidst this massive crisis in the hobby when everyone should be sticking together, isn't it. Nice.

 

I am not saying people shouldnt trust who doesnt have this things, I am just saying I myself personally dont feel like buying cause as I mentioned before, is not like there few people who have the proofs so its kind of a market competition thing, if you dont have it you need to offer something to be able to compete, is how capitalism is, we dont buy things in unfavorable conditions just to be a good person or "nice", thats not how the real world works. Again, I do feel sorry for this, I dont think they are less legit because of this, but buying from someone who has coa/original box/etc you get those things for yourself too, so it is a great advantage.

 

I know the first time I tried to buy a doll, I was scammed. It wasn't because the doll was a recast, it was because the seller took my money and sent nothing. Just as easily, someone could have sold me a recast. I had no idea! This was many years ago, back in 2010. Now, newbies are most likely to be scammed because they will see promo photos of the most beautiful doll they've ever seen, from a foreign maker, and not available to purchase in their own country. It's likely now for a newbie will enter the hobby very easily by being scammed, having a recast doll but already sinking money into it and wanting to enjoy it. I'm very pro-artist, but I'm also not going to be mean to anyone that has been scammed and it's too late for them to do anything to recover their funds. This sort of thing hurts the hobby because it steals from artists and shuns away people that have been scammed.

On top of all that, there's this problem with the trade protections not being in place for legit/original companies that is going to muddy the waters more intensely. This is a pity on many fronts. I do wish that legit companies could somehow make their own trade association and agree among themselves to a set of policies based on mutual expectations of conduct. Together, they could have their own association to counter fraudulent vendors and protect their intellectual properties. In addition, together, they could put forth smaller amounts each for more legal council when needed. As collectors/consumers we would have a bit more protections for our investments. I fear that without some cooperation among original companies and artists, the hobby will become much too difficult to navigate and bjds will then be a fad that dies out.

Another issue I see becoming a trend from 3 D modeled sculpts. There is nothing wrong with this, but it does create an issue where it could be much more difficult to determine if a doll is copied as computer generated sculpts that are copied are not produced the same way as recasting. Recasting will reproduce tell-tale signs like different resin composition but the tool marks from sculpting by hand will still be there. It will be much easier for dolls to be offered that are copied and it will be very difficult for dolls with similar measurements to prove they are trying to keep a conformation to the popular standard sizing/measurements of dolls but are not making computer generated copies of other dolls.

In the meantime, the best we can do is be welcoming to newbies, offer recast education in a non-confrontational way, and do our best to acquire dolls we really, really like in case it's announced after the purchase that the dolls are computer 3 D copies of other dolls. We could also try to buy artist made dolls sold by the artist, where evidence of the sculpting process is well-documented. I'm sure others have ideas that would be helpful as well. I just hate to see all the mistrust among long-time collectors. In the end, greed, mistrust and ignorance can most certainly kill the hobby and bjds will only be remembered as a brief trend in the history of doll collecting.

 

So I've just realised not only are you very new here, but also that you have no marketplace access, which rather renders this whole conversation moot since you don't know firsthand how the MP here actually works, but nonetheless, for the purposes of education, I'll explain.

The feedback system here is trust based. This is not about buying things to be nice, it's about buying things using a long standing feedback thread personal to each individual involved. If you erode that trust system and don't use the feedback system, the MP here becomes useless to us all since you have no trust in the other person in the deal and no way of checking their previous sales.

For instance, if you and I entered into a transaction (breathtakingly unlikely after this conversation, but hey, hypothetical as a tool), the feedback system here allows you to check the twelve years of feedback I have in the marketplace, thusly putting to rest any fears you may have on how I'm likely to behave in a deal. I am free to do the same with your feedback thread and so we have a trusting accord based on the ability to see how we've behaved before. Your reputation is a key element in this marketplace and people will check feedback before dealing with you. So you see, coming to the situation with a zero trust attitude is an erosion of the current system and exceedingly unhelpful at a time when the hobby is in a state of some flux.

A key point of this whole thread has been finding ways to make the community more welcoming in order to show recast supporters how good it can be, this lack of trust attitude is in direct opposition to that concept and actually, makes the place less welcoming to existing members by alienating them from it more.

It's zero secret that I've been a big critic of DoA, in some areas, I still am, but I will say that the MP here has always been run with the best trust system available and run well as a result. There are many things that need to be changed here, but that is not one of them. I don't think, if you ever get access, that you'll find it to be the capitalist utopia of your dreams and if it ever reaches that, I think it would be time for it to die anyway.

 

Unfortunately, as harmful to trust-based marketplaces as it may be, I suspect that opinions like Flornosertao's are the inevitable conclusion of the rise of recasting, and even though it isn't at all fair to "old school"/pre-recast-era collections, it's a sound bet that we're only going to see that level of suspicion becoming more and more common as time goes on.

Call me a pessimist if you like, but I can very easily imagine a time when dolls without air-tight provenance and all the "expected documentation" to prove that may become practically unsellable, or devalued to the point that they're no more desirable than recasts themselves. Those of us with older, undocumented sculpts whose legitimacy simply can't be proven to modern satisfaction have to be realistic about that.

 

Well, the further consequences will be that the market will break down as we know it. The prices will plummet for those "not watertight" dolls, as they simply will be bought by people who do not care as much or are not as knowledgeable. So nothing will be won with this attitude on the long run.

Well, I guess we have to live with it and carry on. I, for myself, am happy to keep the dolls I have and there will be a life outside this community, if neccessary. I am not happy about the marketplace division between those who know enough about the "old school dolls" and those who only want to deal with fully documented dolls. I, for myself, would have absolutely no problem if I were interested in an older doll offered by an old member of this forum with sound feedback, but without watertight documentation.

 

I have no knowledge of 3D printed manufacturing marks, but in typical recasts you can tell the difference on the inside of the doll. Those selling without airtight proof could take photos of their doll's insides.

 

I get the bad feeling that eventually all types of legitimate BJD's will linger in the MP for a long time while recasters will continue to make recast BJD's at a cheaper price. Let's be real here if spending $600- 800 for a legit doll can be recasted for less than $300 or 200 some newbies would rather save money and go for a hard to find limited recast or a well liked recast (example Fairyland recast's). I just saw a video on YouTube where a collector paid $850 for her Feeple 65 normal skin Chole and she came with problems, she compared her to a recast tan skin Feeple 65 Siean, and to her and her boyfriend that video taped the comparison she was disappointed in her legit doll. And like she said she spent $850 and she should get a high quality product from Fairyland, but instead she did not. At the end of the day it is up to the individual what they spend their money on, and it seems like the recast maker's are gaining in sales.

 

Without knowing what the issues were (I wonder if she tried contacting Fairyland or her dealer), I would say that person just felt like they paid too much since they previously bought cheaper. Even when you buy from legitimate companies, you cannot (sadly) expect perfection.

Does anyone have any status on the situation with the recaster Luo?

 

I wont keep the talk since its off-topic (and mods already alerted about keeping this topic more focused on the trademarket instead of recast in general), but I have to say that what was said before doesnt change my opinion because:
1. I'm not talking about doa marketplace only, doa is not the whole community and not the only place affected by what is happening. 2. Trust doesnt change the fact when you buy a doll with proofs the proofs are passed to you, and you will have it in case you want to resell and so on (unlike the trust points).
3. I'm not saying in anyway people would need proofs to be part of the community, I dont think no one can demand this, I'm talking about my preferences as a buyer (and if this make you not want to deal with me, thats totally fine, as I said the market is quite competitive, you dont need me and I dont need you).
4. Also, I should say when I talk about prefering to buy a doll with proof, I'm not saying "full documentation". So please, dont misunderstand me.

As for the situation, @*NatTheCat*, there is no update in the processes since USA's status changed for "plubication/issue review complete" which doesnt include fairyland and means the processes will be published for opposition on day 19 of this month and no more luo related news since the copy of backplates and coas.

 

As for point 3, that is not a very productive attitude IMO.

Regarding quality for highly priced dolls: That is something companies really could work on. I think it is indeed something we can request as customers not to be carried out sloppily.

Another aspect could be something I mentioned somewhere in an earlier post: to change a bit the system of payment. Maybe by introducing some kind of basic layaway: the customer pays the most money (some kind of down payment) when ordering the doll, and the rest when he receives the message that the doll is ready for shipment.
Or something like that. Just to show a bit of goodwill on the seller's side.

 

I was really surprised to learn that the legit companies did not already have copyrights on their products and trade marks. I'm hoping that this will cause legit companies to realize how important it is to get copyrights and trademark all their work. Often something horrible has to happen to give a wake-up call, and then something good comes out of it in the end.

 

flornosertao, I saw people who were selling recasts with original boxes and origonal CoA of original model of the doll (I dont know where did they get them, but it is true). So its not like CoA prevents you from being scammed.

 

@flornosertao : But even if you're about to buy a doll on a different platform, it's still common sense to check out the seller. It's the internet. It's not hard to track someone's online history. No matter what you do, purchases in a virtual environment always rely on trust, whether you're purchasing from an individual, or a webshop.

You can buy them. I've seen people on Y!J sell the original papers of volks dolls, for instance.

 

I know my english is bad, but I feel sooooo misunderstood right now LOL

Ok, let me put it in a pratical situation to see if its easier to understand: In a group of friends I know and trust, x people put their doll for sale this week, I liked around 5 or less in terms of aesthetic, price and so on. How do I decide if I'm going to get it or not? I ask for the informations. "Does it comes with coa and/or original box? Do you have social media pictures of it from when you got it?"

I never said this is above trust. I never said it prevents people from being scammed. I'm not only talking about coa/box when I talk about proofs. I never even said I think thats how thing should be for everyone (I even included a "i'm sorry" cause I do feel sorry for people who dont have any proof). I, personally, just feel confortable this way. You know, some people like big dolls, while some like tinies, some like to buy the blank doll while others prefer the full kit. I like dolls with proofs. Why is that so weird?

I'm not even saying I would never ever buy a doll without some kind of proof, if it is a grail, a rare old sculpt, those seem worth the exception to me (and I mentioned this previously). I'm just saying that under normal circunstances I wouldnt buy a doll without proofs, and thats in part because I dont really need to since I didnt fell for any hard to find sculpt yet.

I was just saying what fits for me for the sake of the discussion but some people took it personal. Which keeps the thread active while there is no update, so I dont really mind, but I can see the mods hating me for the 54543454537335454 off-topic since the discussion started. SORRY mods!

 

Many of them did, however, Trademark registration (which is what the topic at hand is) is per country, not a global database, and is expensive. As we know, the companies are small and can't always afford the registration in their own country, much less China and the assortment of other countries where Luo filed registrations. And China disregards the copyright protections instituted by the rest of the world, so that's not going to help, either.

Beyond that, trademark registration only applies as long as you the holder protect it. If you don't engage in (potentially expensive) legal battles every time someone tries to use your trademark, and even one slips past you for whatever reason, then your trademark protection is invalidated. (I work with a local organization and often need to use the trademarked name and logo in things I'm producing for the event, and need to get permission for the use every time regardless.)

Yes, trademark and copyright protection is important, but you can't blame the companies for this.

 

Oh no, I think we all understood you just fine. What you're not understanding is that you have to take it personally. We all have to take it personally. When people stop taking it personally, you don't have a community anymore and without the community, you lose any ability to control things like the influx of recasts into the hobby, you lose safe marketplaces to buy and sell from, you lose a wealth of knowledge formed over the years, you lose, really, the crux of the hobby. Which is why we're all here to begin with, isn't it.

 

I really dont understand. Maybe my english is too poor to understand what you mean, but thats sure something I'm hearing for the first time in my life. Care to explain how that works?
You know, we have multiples communities when we live. There is the academic community, the hobbies community (which include bjd, but I dont really know many people who only have bjd as a hobby so its something even more extensive), the neighbors community, the faith community (whatever in a religious way or in some other kind of believe that you have a group you go to) and so on. But you talk as if the bjd community in particular, is so fragile - and somewhat different from all of the others communities - that anything could end it soon, even someone not taking things personally. I'm not grasping this whole concept yet.
Also, I may be new here, but I've heard about the daisy. Not really nice, hm.

 

If you don't think the BJD community is currently incredibly fragile, in the midst of this hot mess that has divided it brutally and may very well cause the end of legitimate companies and artists careers in the BJD world, I really don't know what to tell you at this point. In fact, I think you and I have said all we need to, to eachother.

 

I still would hope that moving forward, legit companies might consider a Trade Association. It might sound really crazy, but candle makers did this to self-regulate their products. Doing so ensured that consumers would not need to worry about the safety of the products and it also helped all members be respectful of each other's formulas. This would help currently as several companies banding together to afford legal council will be less of a financial impact as each company seeking their own. It's really a shame when it comes down to the consumers being advocates for their favorite companies, I would hope it would be the other way around sooner rather than later. The trend of these 3 D modeled sculpts is going to continue to create friction between companies and the ones that are really going to loose are the customers.

I would like to add that this is not only a problem with BJDs, but with all high-end dolls or dolls that are marketed towards adults/collectors. There are probably dozens upon dozens of legit doll makers that would benefit from a Trade Association. I've even heard of knock-offs from China that are actually toxic to consumers and they believe they are buying a legit product. This is a huge problem in the doll world at large.

 

It was mentioned previously here and I agree, it would be great to have some association, but it would also be hard to include everyone because of the differences the artists have with each other. Maybe they could try something like a sindicate where there would be divisions for areas and things like that? I'm really happy seeing koreans companies working together! But it also makes me wonder why some of the affected koreans companies arent in the bunch, was it their choice or they werent invited at all? Is not my business, I am just curious of how the whole thing would work. Like having doctor stranger hability of seeing all the possibilities of future.

 

@mollym, if you look earlier in this thread, you'll see the news that a number of Korean BJD companies seem to be banding together in this way -- I hope we'll hear more about the outcome of their association soon.

 

I saw it, South Korea has decent intellectual property laws as far as I'm aware. I am hoping a larger association is formed. It's not a issue that's only affecting one country, it affects the entire industry. Of all the dolls that are recasted/knock-offs/scams, the vast majority are manufactured and sold in China. There's too much fussing between companies as well. It's not a good idea to have the consumers try to sort these problems for the companies either. In the long run, collectors loose on this because it devalues their dolls, even if they were bought from a legit company at a time that their dolls were not under scrutiny. Not only is blatant recasting a problem, but this business of one accusing another of copying a 3 D modeled doll or dolls is uncharted territory that companies need to sort between themselves, and not throw the problem into the laps of any forum, meetup group, second hand market, etc..... It's just unprofessional and discourteous to the lot of us.

Personally, this makes me want to deal with the second hand market even more because I'm now wary of new dolls. Even if the doll comes from an individual artist, the casting service they use can influence weather or not the doll has any second hand value. I try very hard to only accept dolls into my collection that I really, really like and intend to keep permanently. Of course, a few just didn't 'fit in' or I just had a brain block that kept me from enjoying them as much as I hoped. So, even I have offered some dolls in the second hand market. I could be the only one that has more faith in the second hand market rather than faith in established companies.

 

@mollym since you mentioned most recasters being chinese, I remember there was a talk somewhere about how chinese companies arent often recasted, like, recasters there fear they will be caught since they are under the same jurisdiction (its only a theory though). So an association kind of thing would be really great in the sense of having chinese companies too helping the other countries companies and thats sure reason for recasters to fear because what they do is wrong, and there would be nowhere to run, and this rhymes larala (8)

 

Yes, and it's not just BJD type of dolls that are being recasted. This is a problem for many different types of dolls. It's high time for many legit companies to talk to each other. If anyone has some contact information on who is getting organized in South Korea, then maybe we can (as collectors/consumers) all ask them to make it an international effort to include all legit companies, Chinese and other markets to get this problem under control. Personally, as a collector, I do realize this might increase the cost of new dolls, but it would also help to ensure the value of my collection doesn't become worthless. A healthy second hand market is a good indicator of the value and appreciation of art of any sort. It would also help prevent BJDs and other nice dolls from becoming bygone fads. This would combat recasting and at the same time, help the companies work together to agree what counts as copying as this is now a problem when a 3 D modeled doll is too similar to another doll that is also 3 D modeled. Inside arbitration would be better for everyone. There is no recasting when this happens, but one company can ruin another company and make the dolls previously released be treated like recasts and make the owners feel like criminals. I get upset that the consumer part of the hobby has to fill the role of doll police between companies. They should not put that on us, they should work it out themselves.

These sorts of problems are not new, nor are they limited to BJDs. There was a small thread about the history of BJD dolls, the drama that ensued after patents were made for those and related doll owner communities, but I believe that thread is now gone.

 

A friend related to me how she noticed some recasts sculpts that were sold by multiple sellers in aliexpress are now only showing up for luo's store. Some other even more famous sculpts still are being sold by one or other recaster beside luo, but I kind think there is a lot less than it used to be? I'm not sure, maybe I just never paid the right amount of atention, but I see multiples adverts from luo's differents stores, but not as many as I remember when it comes to others recasters...

I checked some famous stores and the sculpts are actually there, but not really named for the brands which seems like the trademark is being used against them?
They are using the term "stenzhorn" and I'm really confused cause I dont know what the hell is that supposed to be c.c
There is even a "new arrived beautiful 1/6 doll for baby girl bday" and like no info about the sculpt and company at all.
That really makes harder for people who dont know the stores already to find them, which would be great if there wasnt lots of luo's adv showing in the results.

 

Wait, so for USA the process is available for public opposition on June 19th?

Everyone, we should start thinking about this!
We need to collectively put our heads together and figure out what we are going to say, what documentation we would like to provide. We need at least a bullet point list of all the necessary information to get the point across that not only is this guy a thief, approving this trademark will work to ensure the destruction of an hundreds of small businesses around the world, and prevent future small businesses from starting succeeding in this field! Even

This is the least we can do for the artists we love, the least we can do to fight back against Luo and protect our BJD community.

After this we can all work together to reflect on what we can do to better provide pro recasters the education and compassion they need to feel safe and informed enough that they can stop supporting recasts and fight alongside us. We mustn't respond to toxicity with more toxicity. I believe we can do this. We love this hobby and our community so much. We can work together for this cause.

 

I wonder if we have standing to oppose? Or we need to argue that we indeed have the standing? There are also filing fees involved (as with all things. Sigh). At least though it's just based on written record.

http://www.wipo.int/sct/en/comments/pdf/sct17/us_1.pdf

Agree w not responding with toxicity with more toxicity, and instead working together.

 

I thought we didn't have a say in opposition, cause that how it works in countries I know and I kind forgot I dont know a lot about usa, but anyway, @ATYL link seems to imply that third parts can actually "prevent the registration of a mark". I wouldn't recommend anyone to join this without consulting a lawyer though, as law is a serious matter and may cause you problems. It would be great if someone here was a lawyer in USA or had a lawyer that could talk a bit with the community to guide people here and collect proofs to send. I don't have anything from iplehouse or dollshe, so I can't really help in this cases XD

 

the opposition itself doesn't seem difficult, looking at this sample filing http:// online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/2015_0205_redbull.pdf
I imagine anyone with $300 can file pro se. (so I hope the artists/companies affected are at least doing that.)

according to this https:// www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/opposing-canceling-trademark-registration.html
it's "any party who may be damaged by the actual or proposed registration of a mark". do we as consumers qualify? I haven't yet found anything that definitively says we do. doesn't mean there isn't though. (or that we can't argue for it, just that having precedents would be better.)

 

I would say collectors would be damaged as this would affect the value of a collection. Also, I hope that all vendors and makers are aware of the date to file opposition in the US. Is anyone able to contact them easily?

Having a recognized Trademark it the US can sometimes help to keep or obtain a Trademark in other regions. Each company, or interested party will need $300 to file an opposition. I have no doubt that some legal council would be helpful for every party involved. Perhaps some of the companies can get together and get a group deal for legal council? That might cost them a whole lot less in the long run, and prevent this thief from offering his counterfeit goods in the US market.

 

I was told luo is already making "good use" of his trademarks rights, taking new pictures and using fairyland original logo on them!

 

Oh sh** (no, I will not write here what I want to say now, it helps nobody). So what now? Anything we can still do?

 

What just baffels me is how he get the trademark in the first place. I mean you would think they (the place where you register the trademark) wold atleast do some little chek your not copying an already existing company. I think it's not hard to just google a name, and especially fairyland would probably pop up emidiatly and showing that fairyland already is alive long before recaster produced a doll. Maybe it's a really western view but fairyland can clearly show their dolls where there first, and the logo is already conected to them for a long time.
Just crossing my fingers justice will be there in time.

 

I wish I knew how to contact all the companies.... I have no clue as the only new-to-me dolls were ordered primarily from dealers/vendors. The others, I'm not sure if they would understand me very well. I really wish right now I was able to access the Chinese collector community as I'm sure they have some personal connections to the makers.

 

They were all already contacted, if you have anything more to tell them you can just ask for help, I'm sure you will find someone willing to help ^^
Having connections in the chinese community would be sure helpful, even doa doesnt seems to have a lot of chinese members...

 

I'm so glad I had someone to show me the wrongs and rights of the bjd community, I almost would've bought a recast without knowing!!

 

Hi Gockt here, long time lurker / active worker in BJD companies in Korea
We all know this is getting ugly and there's not much community can do BUT not buying recasts.

I did a panel at DN 2018 with Cocoriang / who's in head charge of international suing process rn
And we had a time and chance to educate con attendees.


Here are few things on how you can help out companies

1. Educate your friends. Or newbies who wants to start their hobby in BJD.

- Be honest. Most of new people just type BJD in eBay or Amazon, and buys whatever pops up, which are recasts.
​

2. When you see those ads or listing on eBay / Amazon / Ali express / etc, report them.

- That's the best way to help out the companies right now. You cannot donate them money or anything. Removing ads to low the visibility will help.

​

3. Most of all. DO NOT BUY RECASTS

- I mean, duh.

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If you have more questions and what not, tag me on this thread.