ATStudio Dolls

hello. It seems like the links youve shared arent working.

someone here also mentioned that atstudio artist sells secondhand soom dolls. Is that supposed to be bad? Are the ones they are selling recasted copies?

 

Hi!
Thanks for the notice, I have edited the links please see if it works now.

It’s implied that those SOOM heads (quite a good number it seems?) sold by the artist were used for recast/base modeling purposes.
And this is not my opinion, I am just translating what the Chinese collectors have witnessed and suspected.

 

Thank you fixing the links. Ive already stumbled upon those images. But i just wish i could understand what was written in the post to actually make sense of the whole thing. Even the comment section looks interesting

Oooo. Thats another story on its own. If shady and illegal transactions were really involved, then they would definitely have to pay for it, in the court at best. Otherwise, if those allegations are proven wrong, i certainly hope atstudio artist would file a lawsuit against those who are involved in what would appear as acts of libel and slander.

 

I’ve translated the 2nd link please see below.

The second link have 3 side profile photos.

From left to right:
1)Baker head sculpt in process (original photo taken and posted by ATstudio artist themself)
2)Finished product Baker (side profile outlined in yellow) (photo provided by ATstudio collector)
3)Finished product SOOM Pharo (side profile outlined in red) (photo provided by ATstudio collector)

The lips and chin of the Baker head during the “rough” initial stage of sculpt process,
is a very close (almost perfect) match to Pharo’s lip and chin. See the red side profile outline superimposed. These parts are then modified later.

Hope this helps clear some confusion.

 

I feel you there. I also got the same vibe that this has slowly turned into a group bullying. These people so want Hook out of the picture. And the evidence they presented I will consider as poorly constructed and misleading. I mean hey if they want to prove something at least get the real heads and body.
For your information, Hook is slowly sharing his creation process on his Weibo: Sina Visitor System if anyone is interested, take a look. We all deserve to hear what he has to say.

 

Apparently their acc on weibo also got hacked at one point, probably by those individuals propagating this issue. This is a rough translation of the post. The comment section of their other posts also look chaotic.

 

I am following the rumor during two days. Because of my bad English, I just want to give some points when I see a lot of accusations, evidences. If you need some link from Weibo, please tell me. I can't upload pictures but they are on Weibo.
1. Owner who had head Narmer and Baker, gave pictures. She told that their were still different a little bit and said ATstudio didn't copy.
ATstudio gave a lot of pictures which showed his scuplting process. There was a picture which showed a clay Baker's head in scuplting.
2. Surprisingly, people pointed out the first head of Baker which made from clay, were totally the same SOOM Narmer. They used picture of clay head was upload by ATstudio to check.
3. In another pictures of process scuplting by ATStudio, people figured out a strange protruding mark on the back of Baker head. This mark was fit with the sign of Soom's head. (I think you can check a head from Soom. They have a sign behind their head.) The evidences show that ATStudio printed 3D Narmer, covered with clay and fix some details on it to make it quite different.
4. Until now, the price of ATstudio's doll dropped nearly a half on Chinese second hand market. A head of Baker dropped from 1500 Yuan to 700 Yuan.There were many dolls of them on sale now. This happen after the accusing party showed a lot of evidences.
5. An idea form Chinese owner: The big and famous brand like Volks, Napi, Fifth Motif didn't give any respond for similar things happen in the past. He though that SOOM would do the same Volks.
6, Between the rumor, some fans of ATstudio protected him by politic and history between China and Korea. I though that was one of reasons famous brands didn't respond in the past.
7. SOOM suddenly NOTIFY a re-release of NARMER PHARAOH on 30/4-3/5. This is so strange because they have just released Garion fews days ago. This is the second release of SOOM in a month while they often release one time a month. The interesting tea: head Baker is accusing plagiarize head Narmer.

 

Hi thanks for the information.
To add on your point 4, it is quite natural for many doll owners to let go their atstudio dolls given they are controversial now, and if you observe the comments, they are overwhelmingly against Hook.

Additionally, the timing for this outbreak is also suspicious. These people have all the years to accuse copy of Narmer, given Narmer is released before Baker. They chose a point where atstudio gets popular recently due to release of new dolls, and before the opening of SHDP, one of the biggest doll fair in China.
I think we can do is to wait for more evidence to be provided by Hook before we jump into any conclusions

This is another fair comparison: 微博

 

I have the same question like you when I see a lot of accusations. There were some fans asked the same on Weibo and got some answers:
1. In the past, ATstudio was accused copy not only this time. He had some quite famous friends, so he protected quite good by them. I did't know which accusations of him in the past because the comment didn't show details.
2. Until now, he couldn't show more evidences which were enough to convince the audience in this situation. He only said that SOOM didn't confirm, so the accusation couldn't believe. He required his customer to wait the direct respond from SOOM. (I think SOOM respond indirectly by a release of Narmer).
Each evidence he showed, it became new evidence of of accusation group to against himself. I am so confused in this situation. Why it happen like that???
3. A guy on Weibo figured out that CapHook owned more than ten heads of SOOM in the past. He sold those heads on second hand market after a short time. The question from this guy: What did he do with those heads? It was unusual if he was a fan of SOOM, tried to buy a body, a lot of heads, and then tried to sold almost of them on second hand market before release a doll by himself.
-> I don't think this is a point to accuse Caphook plagiarize SOOM, but it make me get a suspicion.

 

Following your points, I might be able to provide more details, mostly to your point 1.
1. The accusation of Baker and Tengo both being copies of soom dolls has long existed since the beginning of his creation, mostly due to his large collection of soom dolls, being a famous faceup artist of soom dolls and Baker Tengo gave a vibe of soom dolls. Before no strong evidence could be produced to support their accusations (they compared Baker with Amor who is released after Baker), so they stopped the accusation for some time, but Hook’s reputation was harmed at that time. Regularly they will brought up the accusation in the community.
2. He is slowing presenting evidence. We need patience to wait for more. He suggested waiting for a statement from soom. Personally, I think soom would rather stay out this or publish a neutral statement, after all they are a commercial entity. Eventually, Hook has to fight this on his own.
3. Owning and selling lots of soom dolls do raise suspicion. But using this as evidence of he copying soom dolls maybe questionable. Hope he could clarify later.

 

I received both Narmer and Baker around the same time, and immediately I realize they look so much similar. Some ppl argue that they do not look alike at all but I ask, did you all look into the details? Because, if they look exactly the same then it is recast. Here are some pictures I took a while ago when I have both heads in hand (I no longer owns Baker because I realize the problems as soon as I put them side by side).

These are just my own opinions, I respect every work of art but not in this case, it is fine with me if some people still support the artist with their own points of view, but I no longer will, just to make myself clear.

I will point out where are they similar below each picture.

Left: Baker
Right: Narmer
Similarities:
1. the nose and nostrils shape.
2. the overall shape of the forehead and chin.
3. the size and shape of the mouth from this angel.
4. location of the ears.


Closer to the camera: Baker
Farther from the camera: Narmer
Similarities:
1. Forehead shape.
2. The shape of the tip of the nose, both have a little curve and the height of the bridge.
3. Chin shape.
4. Overall proportion of facial features.


Left: Baker
Right: Narmer
Similarities:
1. The tip of the nose.
2. the overall face shape.


Left: Baker
Right: Zak
Similarities:
1. the eye shape.
This is probably never mentioned by anyone, but I realized both eye shapes look so much similar.

 

If it was a exact copy, then it would be straight up re-cast. ATstudio artist is smarter than that.

 

It is confirm the accusation correct. He scanned narmer head, scaled size, printed it out, covered it by clay to modify.

 

This news is very disappointing since I recently bought an ATStudio Orion head. Even though I don't think there are any accusations of Orion being a copy yet, if the other heads are proven to be copies, I wouldn't feel comfortable owning Orion either...

 

Truly it is disappointing news.

Actually the accusation is there..... Orion and Tei

 

.

thank you for sharing this. Regarding number 7, I think soom releasing two sculpts at once and this soecial release have nothing to do with this issue. Why would they choose to act all shady instead of taking legal actions regarding this, if there really is something wrong.

Hello. Can you please give a source to this. Thank you

 

I think she was referring to the post by Furau. I was confused at this post at first as well, but realised later

 

For a second there i thought some official announcement was made. Im still waiting for any announcement coming from soom regarding this issue because it would really be so hard to believe that there is a recasting or modification thing that went on ,unless soom points that out themselves.

 

New post with screen captures of ATstudio artist’s personal sales page on second hand sales app 闲鱼. (They have since unlinked the sales page from their weibo account.)
Photos provided are some of the SOOM dolls, Illusion Garden doll they re-sold in the past. Along with photo comparison of the other companies dolls and ATstudio’s own products that have similar sculpts.

微博

 

I

They do have similarities, but to the point of saying that one is the copy of the other, well we wont really know unless the atstudio artist will provide sufficient amount of progress pictures to back their claim that they did not use soom narmer as a base then modified it later on (which would clearly be counted as recasting). Until then we could only wait till SOOM, as a company that specializes in this, could release a statement on whether there really was a recasting act that happened. This is a grave issue. If those atstudio heads and or body really were recasted copies of the original soom heads (or other company or artist doll in this respect), then atstudio artist should face charges for this, just cause multiple copies of their dolls have been sold for quite a high price and as supposedly original dolls.

Oooo Now i get the whole ‘sold a number of soom dolls secondhand’ thing now. So these accusations point out that atstudio artist used these heads in the past as bases to make or produce recast copies of their dolls then sold them in the secondhand market afterwards. Wow, thats a whole lot of detective work that theyve been doing. I do hope they forward all of these information to soom to help with the investugation and not just spread them online to drag this issue on or slander atstudio artist.

 

Hi dear, I just want to give some ideas from my friends about respond of SOOM. I found some ideas on Weibo similar with my friends.
1. Did Volks, Napi, Fifth motif respond directly about an artist copy their plagiarized? They didn't because some sensitive reason. First, did any scuplt of doll of those brands resign copyright? It is tired if they have to follow any lawsuit.
2. Most important: their business is on China. They will have trouble if they conflict directly with Chinese artist.
3. I saw ATstudio fans used conflict of politic, history between China and Korea as a shield to protect CapHook. No brand want to tough this sensitive point.
4. Because of cannot respond directly, they make an unplanned decision: release Narmer. I think it enough to say their attitude in this case.
5. CapHook and his fans rely on difficulty of SOOM in respond directly to make him clean.
In my opinion, until now, by many evidences, everybody have their conclusion for this case. Stop or continue in support ATstudio are decision of ourselves.
I feel so bad because I really like Baker.

 

As I mentioned, these are just my personal opinions. In fact, there is actually more evidence in Weibo supporting my point of view. I am sure for most experienced Soom collector, these evidence is clear enough to individuals.
If Soom never actually gonna do anything about it, I will still never ever again buy from ATStudio.
Not trying to force anyone to accept my ideas, but just trying to clear their eyes a little bit.

 

To be honest there really isn’t much SOOM can do legally speaking against ATstudio, since they are a overseas company based in China where international copyright jurisdiction is an grey area.
For example the infamous Chinese recast company Oueneifs to this day still have not received legal reprimands of any sort from the long lists of doll companies they have recasted from, then stole their legal licensing distribution rights in China on Taobao by registering these overseas companies names first themself on the government’s commercial company licensing registration data base. To put it simply, Oueneifs is the legal owner of these companies names in China. Crazy but true.

 

Not only you see the similar of those heads. There are many dolls of ATstudio on sale now and their price dropped by hour. After an evidence was given, the price dropped a little bit.
I agree with your idea.

Thank for your description. It is all of things I try to talk in my previous comment.

 

ETA:
I translated incorrectly.
To clarify, the netzens are saying Cetus is a combination of parts from these 4 dolls:
-SOOM Arslan, Raol, Sard
-Illusion garden Unicorn Yuli

 

Hopefully soom will release a statement on this matter, soon and put an end to it.

Honestly though, i doubt they will. From a pure commercial point of view, there is not much gain by joining this drama.

i think I will wait a bit longer to see more information and conclude by myself...

 

You’re most welcome! Thank you too for the detailed translation work.
I’ve been in the hobby long enough to say plainly that plagiarism of intellectual property truly does have negative impact on this already niche community.
Again I am only here to provide information and documentation from Weibo so collectors who don’t speak Chinese are informed and aware.

 

That might be true. But i dont see the point in Soom ignoring this wherein fact they were able to release official statements regarding those past recasting issues. They should at least make an official announcement (and given that someome already informed them about this) to inform their buyers or followers about this. Its their works that are involved after all.

Thank you so much for these information. True enough, plagiarism is a grave offense. Its downright disrespectful.

 

Possibly Soom’s past dispute experience with Miyadoll might be what guides how they will respond to the current ATstudio situation.

Either way, official statements or none, given the mounting evidence people are free to choose and decide what they would like to do.

You’re most welcome.

 

I believe most people will see the truth! We just have to watch.

 

Thank you all for your detailed information here! The moment I saw Cetus, I immediately got Illusion Garden Yuli vibes. I initially liked the look of him, but after reading through here I will abstain from this company. There is a lot more here than I first thought and I really appreciate the insights. Even without ATStudio's response, my mind is personally made up.

 

Could you tell me what happen between Soom and Miyadoll? I try to find information but I don’t understand.

Do you use facebook or IG? I will send pictures of translation to you. The translation of weibo can help you understand about 70-80% of meaning. I can’t upload picture here.

 

Im actually curious as well. But it might be a forbidden topic, so might as well take the conversation in PMs.

Ooo can you send me those as well please. My ig is lizumi156. Thank you so muuch

 

Do you have IG? I can PM you there would be easier.

 

Count me in as well please. lizumi156. Thank you

 

My IG: leona_tn
Thank you!

 

Can you send it to me too?
IG: _doll_ingg_

 

Soom had already posted an announcement on their website regarding the problem.

 

Soom will further investigate and exam by involving a 3rd party, according to the announcement.

 

SOOM
Official statement on the controversy over suspected plagiarism of Idealian dolls
Thank you for loving our doll.
First of all, we’re thankful to our fans who concerned over the recent issue.

As a group of artists creating the Soom doll, we are sorry for the controversy over the suspicion of plagiarism. Due to this issue, all of the artists and executives of Soom were greatly disappointed.

Soom’s artists have been striving to create original dolls through various aesthetic explorations for a long time. As a result, Soom’s unique identity has been recognized by customers, and we are striving to keep it.

When artists are creating for a long time with own aesthetic standards, the originality will naturally be revealed, and many artists are working tirelessly to get it recognized by the public.

If someone newly sculpted a specific work as a motif in their own differentiated style from start to finish, it is recognized as another work that reinterprets the original work. On the other hand, if the work itself is imitated as it is, or only partially transformed or added, it will inevitably become similar to the original work, which can lead to suspicion of plagiarism.

“Plagiarism” means not only when two works are similar, but also when they have a similar overall feeling. Also plagiarism does not necessarily have to be intentional, and plagiarism can be regared as negligence even if it is not intentional.
Intentional plagiarism can result in criminal penalties, and although there is no intentional plagiarism, if plagiarism occurs due to negligence, it will be subject to civil liability.

Therefore, when producing a creation, it should be careful because it may be plagiarized someone else’s creation unconsciously. For all artists, the plagiarism controversy in itself is very dishonorable and faced with moral and ethical criticism, so all creators themselves should have strict standards to avoid such unpleasant issues.

In art work, it is very difficult to distinguish and define creation and imitation because the boundaries are ambiguous. As the famous saying, ‘Imitation is the mother of creation’, you may think that some degree of imitation can be admitted in art work.
Moreover, the creation of a doll is a representation of the original human form, so it is easier to think more easily.

Personally there have been many cases of inspired creations or customizing the Soom dolls. Some of them have been controversial as some are selling commercially rather than purely personal work, and it is even illegally copied and sold in earnest. It is only a difference in degree, but it is an act of infringing on the copyright of others and deceived customers in the end.

Plagiarism without intention is also plagiarism, and if coincidences are overlapped, it is likely plagiarism.
If this controversy continues to be repeated and it is judged that it is damaging the original author’s of Soom and Soom’s customers, we will not neglect and request the collected dolls to a specialized agency to objectively verify whether plagiarism is found, and if plagiarism is judged, we will take corresponding actions.

The reason why ball joint dolls have been able to developed so far is the honest hard work of many artists who constantly create original dolls,
and customers who appreciate the workmanship and value of the dolls.
We hope that this issue will serve as an opportunity for not only us but also many artists to work harder to meet the high expectations of the customers.
Also we hope that a creative environment in which all works are respected and protected.
Thank you.

SOOM
Link Official statement on the controversy over suspected plagiarism of Idealian dolls - IDEALIAN
-------------------------
What do you think about this announcement?
Update from Weibo:
I was a bit surprised by Chinese BJD owners.
I saw there were not much attention to Soom's announcement as accusing report. Some of them told that everybody had their conclusion, the announcement only support to their point.
Another person said that this announcement of SOOM was not enough clearly. They wanted SOOM to confirm directly about the accusation and gave a NAME.
Some oversea dealers try to support ATStudio via weibo comments. Those dealers gave an option that their customers could get a refund. On the other hand, they gave a lot of deal of ATStudio's dolls from second hand market with a low price. They would bought those ATStudio doll for their customers who allowed lower budget doll and didn't care about negative information. As I mention before, many Chinese owners sold their ATStudio doll on second hand market because of plagiarism accusation.
From ATStudio: Artist stated that he would prepare and submit more materials to support himself. New release of ATstudio which was accused plagiarize Illusion Gardon, was SUSPENDED.
Under his post: not much support comment as before.
In my opinion, many Chinese owners got their conclusion, so the official statement from SOOM didn't affect their opinion. I can see ATStudio is being boycotted in some Chinese BJD group. After some research about the past of SOOM, I understand why they can't confirm directly in plagiarism their doll. Hope ATStudio can give more information soon.

 

This whole thing is so sad and confusing. The artist in me has mixed feelings about the idea that this is blatant plagiarism. I appreciate everyone's input and sharing of links. One thought keeps coming to my mind. In art school you have proportions and the golden ratio for a human face beat into your memory and your creative eye. Having the eyes, nose and mouth being placed a specific distance away from each other on a face isn't necessarily proof of plagiarism in my mind. I haven't officially done a golden ratio analysis on the sculpts, but given the company's doll line is named Idealian I bet they are strongly referring to that ratio with their sculpts.

**Update: I did a locked-scaled ratio front-facing image overlay of the golden ratio mask on a blank head picture of Narmer and he almost perfectly fits the golden face ratio. In fact, Narmer's nose and brow that people are saying is the "biggest indicator of plagiarism" is exactly the golden ratio nose and brow from the front. I'm in the process of asking the Flickr user whose picture I used for the comparison for permission to share it. I would suggest that both heads are very closely referencing the golden ratio for their sculpt. Also, google "Angelina Jolie golden ratio" to see an example of the mask on a real person. Surely they're related.

It sounds like Idealian has been one of the only companies selling this style of doll for a while. As someone who is newer to the hobby, I've seen a ton of doll brands that look very similar in the same way this ATStudio head has some resemblance to Narmer. There have been soooo many times where I swear a head surely must be X brand because it looks just like another sculpt, and it's not. Just my thoughts.

I hope there is a more clear determination from official outlets about this topic soon.

 

Recently saw a post in facebook from ATStudio saying the pre-order for Cetus will be probably available soon and wanted to know if anyone is thinking in buying? It seems they also held a pre-order for a "new" Baker in September as well.

 

I'm looking at Cetus with fish parts in the blue! Very unique mermaid boy!!

 

Same here! Although it's a shame he got me just when I'm still paying for two layaways so I must restrain myself I just hope the second hand prices doesn't skyrock to 3k in a short time!

 

Orion and nBaker want Cetus home. And so it happened.

 

Yay, @ErikNiceBerg !! What color Cetus are you bringing home? I'm doing the blue .

 

Normal skin in human version.

 

Congrats to both of you! Cetus is such a gorgeous sculpt, I'm excited to see what any of you do if you get to share!

 

Purchased Cetus. He's a grail of mine and I'm excited to get him.

 

@Seki Yay!! Congrats to you too . What color will he be in? Did you get the fish parts or bust stand too?

 

Thank you. He's in normal skin with the human body.

 

So does the company check out? We have someone selling a ATStudio but we aren't sure if we should allow or not ...if they are legit?

 

What? They're not a recast company.

 

Soom made a statement about copying but didn't name names, so there's no action anyone here can take other than choosing to buy or not.

 

As it stands today, they are not on the DoA banned list. The concern about whether or not AT Studio's original Baker sculpt was plagiarism was never clearly addressed by Soom. Soom just made a vague statement about plagiarism and artistic integrity in general (which you can read above on the post by @DianNguyen.)

I have AT Studio Orion punk and he's amazing. If nothing else, I hope AT Studio is more aware of the importance of making sure their sculpts don't become too similar to other artists.

---

Also, does anyone know if ATStudio and ATSdoll are the same? It almost feels like a re-brand or a sister brand based on their FB Page. They have the ATStudio body with the ATSdoll Cetus head. Maybe ATSdoll is a collab with ATStudio's body and Mewoh's head? Just curious if anyone knows.