Alice's Collections Fees?

Alice's Collection will charge you for the Paypal fee (3.9% I believe?), I don't think it's disclosed anywhere on the site until you're checking out, but keep that in mind!

 

Alice’s also charges PayPal fees. I just made a large order from them. I always offset my fees pretty well though, cause if you spend more than $100 on accessories/clothes you get free ems/dhl. An order that’s 380, for instance will be 395.20, after fees.

I’ve never received a doll from them (ordered a body today!) but I’ve bout clothes from them 4 times, and every time Alice has been amazing to work with.

 

Which country are you in? Some countries have customs fees. USA does not.

 

I've ordered from Alice's Collections before. They do charge a Paypal fee. I'm not too bothered by this because their service has always been great and they let me do layaway.

 

A lot of people complains about this but they don’t really realize the PayPal fee reasonable. alice’s Collection is considered a third party and if you don’t pay the fee, Alice’s collection will lose that percentage to PayPal and have to cover the cost lost paying to the doll companies. The doll companies also use PayPal and the percentage also goes directly to the fee on their end too. Alice would be out of business fast if she has to cover the PayPal fee!
So, in the end, it is reasonable to pay up for this and the total cost of the doll would not lose 7%.
The only other thing you will have to pay is custom fee if you are not in USA but that’s after the doll shipped and not directly to alice’s Collection.

 

No, it's not.

Paypal is a cost of doing business, it should be factored into their prices.

Doing it the way they do is basically falsely advertising their prices.

Saying that, I like AC.

 

You’re not quiet getting what I am trying to say.

 

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're trying to say then.

If they need to charge extra to cover their Paypal fees then that's fine, it should just be included in the price displayed on their site, not tacked on at the checkout where it is a surprise expense and may go unnoticed. Especially as Paypal is the only payment option that they have.

 

Well..I think the question that needs to be raised is how do dealers make money period? I assume they get a wholesale rate on the doll with the company which is why not just any company can be a dealer for any parent company. They can't just decide they're going to offer X, Y, Z companies if they don't first make a contract with that parent company to serve as an official dealer.They can't make money period if they're just selling dolls at market value. I work for a hotel and it seems likely that dealers function a lot like expedia and other third parties. They offer our rooms at the market rate we do (they're not allowed to under cut our rates), but we charge them less than we would the consumer booking the room, since we give them a wholesale rate to then market our rooms and pocket the difference as a commission of sorts. A parent company charging a PayPal fee I can argue should be built into their prices, and as far as PayPal is concerned, that's true too. It's against PayPal's TOS. In regards to a dealer charging the fee..I can see it both ways. Personally, I don't mind PP fees, I can justify them. It's what I pay for my buyer protection and the convenience of using this method instead of say Western Union or a bank transfer that is much harder when the parent company is not in the country you're in.

 

@akaisha0 if you look carefully at the doll price and compare it against the company’s price. Alice doesn’t make any profit off selling those dolls and she isnt selling them. She is selling them for the parent company where she has agreement/contracts with them. She is basically a 3rd party when dealing with the dolls. Some of the dolls get sent directly to the buyer from the company through her. But she does make profits selling clothes and other accessories because they are much cheaper in bulks and she is in China. The parent company already has PayPal fee and whatever included in their price.

 

Again, as I said before, they charge the same price because that's in their contract. It doesn't mean the parent company is billing her that amount. Alice Collections clothing is a TaoBao purchaser, they don't make those clothes, they are dealers for them just like they are for their dolls. This concept also doesn't speak to dealers who don't offer clothing and accessories either. I promise you she isn't doing this business for fun purely. Dealers have to earn a profit. The contract billing between the dealer and the parent company is not the same ammount. They cannot charge less than the company, but there is a price difference between what we pay and what the dealer pays. That's how they earn profit.
Leaving this thread after this post. I can only speak as an industry insider. Do with the knowledge what you will.

 

@Leiothrix
It’s not really an surprise. It’s explained that it is an extra charge to cover the PayPal fee right there.
What I am trying to say:
If you buy $100 doll through her, the parent company charge $100. If she doesn’t charge PPfee, she ends up with $97 and she has to give the money to the parent company.... where is that $3? She would have to cover it out of her pocket. Once the parent company gets the $, it’s $97 because it went thru PayPal again! That’s why the fee is there.
Parent company already included the fee in the doll price in the first place and if you pay straight to the parent company, they end up with $97 because that was what they wanted in the first place.
Where else would Alice post the PayPal fee on her page? The ideal place would be the check ou page.

 

There is a cost involved in even offering the dolls for sale, it is guaranteed that she's making a profit off them and not selling them out of kindness.

She has the web hosting, her own time answering inquiries, and organizing logistics for goods that she receives and has to resend. Additionally, she is the contact point for the customer, so if a doll goes missing or is broken it is her problem to fix. If a customer flakes out and does a charge-back she is eating the cost of that.

The price that the parent company charges the end consumer retail is not what she pays wholesale, even if they both retail at the same price. It isn't survivable to do it like that.

If the doll is $100 and the PayPal fee is $3, then the price should just be listed as $103. As there is no way of avoiding the PayPal fee it is dishonest to do it any other way.

If it is a business expense it needs to be factored into the price. I don't want a checkout page with a 3% PayPal fee, a 5% internet hosting fee, 5% rent fee, 5% electricity & water fee, and a 20% wages fee. Just the end price that I'm expected to pay.

 

Well, I am not sure about every doll, but I have found some of the dolls from Chinese companies for less on their official Taobao dealers (and no they're not recast or shady people) than on Alice's. This isn't to say the price on Alice is "higher" because they want it to be — I've found almost all of these companies charge international buyers a higher price for dolls/items, so it could very well be that the price is set higher by them and not Alice.

Clothing is also always less on Taobao from the official stores and even with paying agent fees and a fast DHL shipping, you get more "bang" for your buck. I've found "full sets" on Alice for $90 when they originally cost $20-$30. Again, I am not saying Alice is the one who sets this price necessarily, but it's the reality of things. What I can definitely say is that they're not running a business out of the kindness of their heart; they have a profit. There is nothing wrong with that, but let's not assume they're doing it as charity/favors and let's not pretend the profit comes from charging PayPal fees either.

I think the point that was trying to be made about the fees is this: customers shouldn't be responsible for operating costs. If a business wants to gain that operating cost back they should natively include it within their sales prices and not throw it at you at the end when you're checking out with PayPal. That added cost is a surprise (especially for a new person) and in my opinion is poor business etiquette. If the person wants to charge me fees they can hide that in the sale price and stop baiting people into thinking the cost is less than what it actually will be.

Edit: Even with Taobao agent fees (which are at the very least explained up front) you always get more bang for your buck, at least for clothing and often times even dolls (they sometimes offer some extra options to the domestic buyers) simply because the cost of one outfit from Alice equals the cost of three on Taobao. So you’re spending the same amount of money, but you are getting “more stuff.” And usually Taobao agents will offer a wider range of shipping options at better prices. I never said it was “cheaper” — I said you got “more” for your money.

 

I just want to mention: None of these fees are a surprise. They don't just magically pop up after you've hit the "Pay" button. You have every right to hit cancel and go buy from the original company if that paypal fee upsets you.

This all seems like silly bickering to be honest. Alice gives great deals on shipping, its why most people buy dolls from Alice instead of directly from the company. Its the reason I use dealers, if I can get a better deal/sale/etc through the dealer I use them, if not I use the company.

When you go to the store and buy toys, they don't have the taxes listed in the price. That 9.99 Manga you purchased ends up being 10.64 at check out. (At least last time I bought one). However, unlike the store before you pay Alice you can go "what!? That is insane. No, I will not pay that paypal fee" and go purchase from the shop.

Now, this this is just my experience with Alice. I can't speak for anyone else and I'm sure some companies are different than others. I was looking into purchasing a souldoll through Alice vs the company. A little Vito girl. When I went through the company she was posted at her price (same as Alice) and the shipping came out to about 50 bucks from the company. Sure, they didn't charge me paypal fees..but (just generating a number close to what it was as I don't remember the exact number) they wanted 500 for her. I went to Alice, checked out the same doll. Alice offers cheaper shipping (don't ask me how, I'm not sure). So when I go to check out even with the paypal fees its only 480. I chalk that extra little paypal fee up as 'shipping' and I'm still saving money. The company may not flat out say "Shipping fees" but at the same time, has anyone ever asked them for proof of shipping cost and demanded a refund if it was over what they paid in shipping? I haven't compared shipping but I just received one of my souldoll packages so when the hubby wakes up I'll check it out and see how much they charged me vs how much it actually was.

Sure, I still order direct from company. They had an event that Alice did not do where it was insane of me not to order from the company, even with shipping I ended up with a better deal than what Alice was offering me.

I guess my point is: If you don't like the paypal fees no one says you have to use Alice. Sure, they probably have some sort of discount when they order multiple dolls (makes sense since most dealers seem to batch their dolls) but if its still the better deal for you (paypal fees and all) what does it really matter how they make their money? They're a legit dealer, its not like they're pawning off recasts and claiming they're authentic. If they called it a 'handlers fee' instead of paypal fees would you feel better about it? There isn't a difference. Plenty of people pay WAY more for taobao shoppers in 'handling fees' than what Alice charges.

 

Oh goodness, my dear, you really don't know how businesses work at all, do you?

If you buy a $100 doll through her, the parent company charges probably about $80. That's part of the contract between Alice as a dealer and the company she's listing. I assure you, she's getting cash for every doll she sells, not warm fuzzies. Warm fuzzies don't pay web host fees or grocery bills.

 

They are in Australia. The price you see advertised is the most you'll have to pay. If you're charged more the business can be fined by the various consumer agencies.

I like Alice's Collection. I've ordered from them several times before, I'm sure I will again. I'd just prefer they advertised the actual cost of their products rather than having a 3% surprise at the checkout.

 

I have bought from Alice many times, and it's always been a pleasant experience. While I also don't like the paypal fees tacked on, I do find that it's still often cheaper than buying from the company or other dealers (unless I just want clothes/accessories--I do buy them from TaoBao without the mark up. It's not cheaper for one or two things, but it is for a large order.). Most recently, I bought a Loongsoul body. He was on sale, and Alice had an event where spending $100 on accessories meant free EMS shipping, and I could get a tiny event doll for $12.90 (It's a DF Luca, so I could only get it through Alice, not Loongsoul). So that's exactly what I did. It was worth it to me to get all the extras for just a little bit more than it would have cost to buy from the company. I also feel like they ship faster than many other dealers. When Loongsoul through MintonCard or Denver Doll was 9 months to a year wait times, I got my Loongsoul girl from Alice in about four months. She's also been very helpful and fast in answering questions.

 

“Most people" buy from Alice because it's easy and because they don't know about alternatives. "Most of the people" I have talked to express that they don't know how to use Taobao or "agents" or are too intimidated by the unknown to try to go another route. Of course, I can't speak for "everyone." I mean, I do get it, I do. It's nice to have an English, easy to use site to buy things straight up without having to go through hoops to "get more.” Because in case that wasn’t clear; I never said it was cheaper; I said you got more for your money. If you’re happy paying XX amount of money for an outfit that costs two times less (money saved to buy another outfit) from the original maker, then please, by all means — it’s your right. That’s totally fine.

Now, ignoring the whole ridiculous comparison between taxes and PP fees and the assumption that all countries leave the tax as a "surprise" for that moment at the cash register — "most people" don't want to be punished for buying or using services.

Shocking, but true. And this is where "business psychology" comes in. I'm pretty sure others charge me that PayPal fee when I buy stuff, but if I cannot see or feel it, then it doesn't hurt. I don't have to worry about it. I don't have to be like "oh crap, let me add that fee to the total to see if I'm good." I just shop, add to cart, pay, and wait. Done. And this is why I referred to Alice's method as a poor business etiquette. Which is, needless to say, my personal opinion.

Someone who is new to the hobby and has a budget, say $200 to spend, will probably want to know beforehand that they have to factor in more than just money for dolls/stuff and shipping. Not everyone is a veteran BJD hobbyist. Not everyone remembers the PP fee percentage as easily as the tax percent in their state. Moreover, it might give the impression that it's okay or common to always cover the fees, when it's not.

(And boy do I have a whole novel to write about those shipping fees and the why/how of it all! But FYI it does cost $XX to ship that doll from that country in Korea [it gets a lot more complicated with China because they sometimes use couriers and have discounts with them] because I have checked with the postal service in that country for the dimensions x weight, so...)

As for me, I simply had a horrible experience with Alice's CS years ago. Terrible communication at that time. This is how I started the Taobao shopping adventure. And I do understand that people make mistakes, but I am a customer, not a charity, so I can't touch my heart every time I'm screwed over with "businesses are run by people and people make mistakes." I don't usually see this same merciful mentality being afforded to other merchants (Amazon being full of downright scathing reviews) outside of this hobby. It's like you can't have a negative opinion without being considered a monster or a snowflake or a drama llama and heaven forbid you bring your bad experience to light to warn others that not everything is rainbows and unicorns.

 

I can't read Chinese, but I can navigate Taobao relatively well with Google Translate. It's not that difficult if you put in the effort.

Taobao actually does ship overseas, including to the USA. I, however, use an agent to get my items. Agents make the process easier and are there to mediate if any issues arise.

I'm not sure what unpleasant things you've heard about Taobao, but the site hosts thousands of individually run shops, so that kind of seems like a blanket statement to me. If you're referring to the recasts sold there, most are actually listed as recasts, and it's easy to avoid them.

I love buying my doll clothing off Taobao. I can get the best deals on the cutest items, and I don't need to worry about the mark-up prices from the Western market.

 

I don't know about other agents, but my favorite agent actually charges a fee for paypal, so either way i get charged? Granted going straight to Taobao/through an agent is cheaper for items, but I love Alice for large doll purchases. I had an issue with my order, and Alice communicated with me all the way, and got it fixed. Imo, the customer service is worth the extra cost, especially if you stack it with the events.

 

For an agent, it makes sense to add on the Paypal fees, though. They're not the supplier, they're a go-between like people running group orders here (who also have to add Paypal fees). They're not getting a discount on what they're ordering for you, they're just ordering it the same way you would if you weren't using the agent, and they can't afford to take the hit of losing ~4% on every order.

 

@lividdarkangel

Taobao agents are the go-between for outside of China buyers and Taobao sellers.

As @NekoNyanMew states, Taobao is sort of like Chinese Ebay (although under the umbrella of a far larger seller than Ebay--kind of closer to an Amazon-Ebay hybrid called AliExpress). In this way, bad experiences from Taobao are likely to correspond to an individual seller, who likely had some red flags anyway because Taobao gives sellers ratings just like Ebay does for its sellers (although I've been told it's actually harder to remain in good standing as a seller on Taobao than Ebay).

Taobao will sell to US buyers, but I have been told that not all stores will ship outside of China. Similarly, some stores/dealers (I think SW&doll/Sunny's World and Tata's Paradise are two that refuse orders from known agents) try to avoid selling to agents/shopping services because they see it as a way that non-Chinese buyers circumvent paying international prices for dolls (international prices are often more expensive--which is why things may be cheaper on a Chinese company's Taobao than on their international website).

If the store on Taobao will not ship to the US, you have two modes to go through 1) cheaper and riskier if you don't read Mandarin and 2) more expensive and less risky.

1) is using an in-China mailing address. This may be similar to working with an agent, as some agents also offer this service, but, for the cheaper price, you are offered no added protection of using an agent. All this does is provide a mailing address at a “warehouse,” and then the item is shipped to you. Since 2 shipping fees are already expensive, the added agent fee (see choice #2 below) doesn’t seem like a lot more for services offered under 2) to me

2) Using an agent. Using an agent can also be used even if the Taobao shop ships to the US. The process is that you pay them to order the doll and have it shipped to them, and then you pay for the agent to ship the package to you. Even with two shipping fees, this is often way cheaper (66% - 75% of price including all fees for both Alice's and Taobao + dealer) than Alice's (and most international dealers), so you can see why people feel like Alice's screws them.

You might consider using an agent if you want the following services:

- Someone to order for you in Mandarin. Sometimes companies offer custom orders or require specifications (which body you want the doll on, what resin color, etc.) and you are worried that your translator is not good enough to get the message across. An agent will place the order for you in Mandarin, but pass information and questions to you in English. This way, there is no AI intermediate to screw up the results.

- You are worried about the quality of the product. An agent will give you information about the product you order, and sometimes they ship it back at no charge to you if it is unsatisfactory. Some agents will take photos of the product that you approve before shipping the item to you so that you know you are getting what you ordered.

- You are worried about the trustworthiness of the Taobao shop. This will not work for recasts, as the agent will assume you know that you are ordering a recast (although you could probably ask the agent to clarify the legitimacy of what you are ordering with the seller beforehand). But it will work if you are worried the seller will not produce your item. The agent will fight with the seller to get the item you ordered or refund the price.

So working with an agent gives you some insurance for the process.

Here are a couple Taobao agents I know of, but there are many more:

- Taobao Trends (more expensive and established, takes photos of items before mailing)

- TBSS (haven't used)

- YoyBuy (haven't used)

I personally know no Mandarin and feel very uncomfortable relying on Google Translate for sometimes ~$400 products. Therefore, I use a Taobao agent (TaobaoTrends). I know others are cheaper, but I will only switch once I have made sure that the other agent will take photos because I really value that part of the service.

 

@americanseamstress -- Wow, that was a post-and-a-half, thanks!

Just have to figure out how Taobao works now. Chrome auto-translate kinda works mostly...

 

@americanseamstress great summary!

Here's a thread with reviews of various Taobao agents, plus some how-to: /threads/buying-from-taobao-with-taobao-agents.336762/page-5

 

I bought from AC recently, despite being fluent in mandarin. Honestly the ease, customer service and ability to mix items in a single order was worth it for me despite the extra fees.

All Chinese doll companies charge more in USD than if you buy it in RMB. This has always been the case and isn't due to AC.

Taobao is by far a more economical option but it's up to you to decide if the hassle is worth it