Warning: Exact copy of the Volks/BabySSB Dresses

If you ask me it looks like a cheaper version of the original... the quality of the material doesn't seem as good =\ It's a bit too close to comfort not to be considered a copy I think.

 

Mm, they're not entirely exact. The first dress is the most exact (there aren't obvious differences I can spot), but the second has an utterly different headdress (not that that makes much of a difference), and the third one has differences in the sleeves, the bows down the front, the colors, the lace...there's no headdress even shown for Cotin's version.

Yeah. *shrug* Not really surprised.

 

Definately too similar to not be considered copies. There has been a bad string of copying lately, especially of Volks and Luts clothing.

 

It is so sad to see things like this. I also seen some sellers on Ebay who took pictures off YJ and made the exact same outfits to sell. They do however get buyers since their prices are so much cheaper.x.

 

Gross. The number of stores I won't be buying from keeps on growing. To their credit, they did put more effort into lace pattern matching than most do.

IIRC, Cotin is the same wig company that took a few group orders of commissioned wigs from Reve en Poupee, realized how profitable BJD wigs are, opened their own eBay store before completing the final Reve order, and then took months to finally send Reve what they owed.

 

If I Recall Correctly.

This is.... I find copying like this disgusting. I mean, people will still buy, but it
is odd. The third is the least similar, but it still follows most of the same aspects, such as the shape, styling of the bodice....

 

its a good thing this was brough to everyone's attention.
i actually stumbled upon the cotindoll site not too long ago; last time i visited I noticed they had bootleg replicas of BTSSB bags:


this one is a rip offa the BtSSB bag from the pink outfit set:




it makes me really sad to see how people can disrespect others for the sake of profit. CotinDoll is definitely on my black list... I will never ever support their efforts with my purchases.

 

I'm not surprised, and it's not unexpected. People will always copy Baby and other brand name lolita companies, be it on a human-scale or doll-scale. It's nothing shocking, only rather unfortunate for Baby, but considering they release their patterns for GLB all the time and have done so for Dollybird, I don't think they're too concerned about "leaking the great lolita secrets". Besides, these may be closer copies than most, but who's to say that someone who takes parts from many different pieces is better or worse? And yet that is able to slide all the time because not many people can point out and say, "that lace pattern is from Baby's spring 06 collection, that skirt shape is from Angelic Pretty summer 05," etc.

 

For the sake of accuracy, Cotin sold BJD wigs/accessories long before Reve en Poupee ever contacted them.

But yeah, those dresses are flat out knock-offs. Way to continue giving Chinese people a black eye.

 

Thanks for correcting me. The whole ordeal was spead out through like... multiple huge threads.

The places where I can get good, cheap doll goodies keeps shrinking.

 

I saw Cotin selling that Momoko outfit on YJA a long time ago when I was looking for the original. They have been doing this for quite some time now, over a year.

 

The last one seems to me to be "different" enough (the sleeves, the material of the dress)

Yeah. I wonder how close you can get to a design so that "inspired by" becomes "copy".

Thanks for posting this!
Raven

 

I just looked on the site to look at those dresses, and it looks like they're offering the blue on in several othes colours as well. It's not really surprising, as the BTSSB outfits are one of the most sought-after items in the market. The prices are about the same as the cost of buying the original's from Yahoo Japan (Not Momoko's default dress, of course) The sleeves on the last one totally ruin the dress and will never, EVER compare of the original IMHO. And I don't like the look of the material from the second one. Cheapens the dress

 

While I agree these are copies, I find it very difficult to determine the quality of fabric used simply based on photography. The photographs of Cotindoll are nowhere near the quality of the others - as in the lighting is far too bright (for 1 example). I'm not in anyway supporting Cotindoll in their efforts to copy another's work, I'm just pointing out that it is difficult to tell the quality of fabric based on photographs taken by different photographers in different settings.

 

i think they copied the volks dresses indeed!
but if i look at the laws in our country (the netherlands).. with changing a little bow or a ribbon or whatever,you already dont have a case anymore :S so I think its not even against the law what their doing here, althoug its most definitely rude! and since its a company, its not a compliment for volks anymore that the dresses are "inspired" by volks.. but more like theft without evidence/proof.. :S

 

Lets be a little more BLATANT about it, why don't we, Cotindoll? xD

 

It's cotindoll. They've been more then shady in the past. Anyone remeber the reve en popee situation?

 

The dresses still look ugly and cheap though..SATIN? Come on, no self-respecting lolita, not even a doll, would be caught in that

 

The dresses look "ok" tailored but not worth the price they are going for. >_> They look copied too but a lot of other companies make dresses in the same style and sometimes they look the same too. But these look like somebody looked at the picture and tried to exactly copy them. It's not the only copies they have either. >_> Look at this "German Soldier" set they have next to SoulDol's "Shooting" set sold on their site:



It's a cheaper rip-off >_> and looks very much the same. Just they removed a second belt and a necklace O_o It's too bad but they have such nice wigs. Thats all I get from them on their eBay's account. I think their clothes are too over-priced to buy.

 

I agree that CotinDoll was copying the STYLE of the BTSSB dresses, but I do want to point out that the bottom dress with the pink ribboned stomacher is...well, it looks like a modernised version of a historical dress from the 17-1800s...while I do feel that CotinDoll was copying, I also think that the second dress could very easily be an entity of its own.

But really that is just too close for comfort.

I think that this and the recent string of copying should be sending a very clear message to the larger doll companies making extremely limited clothing..especially with a company like Volks who pretty much only releases limited dolls and fullsets these days.

 

Volks releases more limited dolls than standard ones, but their clothing sets are generally made in larger numbers and take months to fully sell out sometimes. The limited dolls themselves are also being made in larger numbers than ever before so I don't know what you're referring to really. Companies shouldn't be pressured by bootleggers to do anything, it's putting the blame on the wrong person to say Volks "deserves" to be copied because they don't make a lot of general release things.

 

I don't want to justify it, and I'm not saying its right BUT

you can't copyright clothes! you can only copyright logos, or any graphic designs you put on clothes but not the item itself, the cut of the fabric, the trims, etc etc. clothes are considered useful items, just like trucks, and while you can copyright any logo or picture you put on the side of a truck, you can't copyright the shape or function of it.

why do you think clothes stores such as H&M and Urban Outfitters copy famous and couture designers? Because its profitable to offer cheaper options and its completely legal.

 

I agree. o_O People copying clothes happens ALL the time. Especially with human clothes. My older sister would look around at internet clothes sites and find one outfit one place, and find an almost exact copy at another place. Clothes copying happens very often. The bjd world is no exception.....

 

The difference between human clothing and doll clothing? It ISN'T a useful item. People need clothes. People don't need clothes for their $600 doll.

Copying in hobbies such as this, in ANY way, if frowned upon highly.

 

They're preying on people who don't know any better. I highly doubt someone who knew these were more expensive copies would buy them. Or at least I'd like to think that people don't willingly get ripped off.

I'm just saying that everyone seems to be in an uproar that they're copying and the clothes on our backs aren't even original. Just like in the real world, you can buy a blank t-shirt for 5 dollars or 30 dollars, neither company was the first or last to make either. Its up to the costumer to make education decisions about what they're going to buy. Making a copy of a clothes design is legal, making the prices higher are also legal. I'm glad that this thread is here to point out that these are indeed copies, and cheap copies at that, but its nothing to get upset about.

 

I beg to differ. My doll certainly isn't going to sit around naked so it needs clothes.

 

You don't need your doll to breathe, keep you clothed, fed, etc. and that is what Kei was saying. You could argue that it's for mental health, but one could argue that for a number of illegal and legal things and it wouldn't make them right. Mostly it comes down to morals or lackthereof, and it's not something anyone will ever agree on, I think Manami just wants people to be informed on which came first and is higher quality.

 

clothes are clothes, even if its for a doll. If they were trying to pass them off as originals (saying they were Volks or BabySSB, even tho they obviously aren't) then I would see a problem. And I already thanked Manani for that purpose already so its obvious that I get that.

 

I agree with you! Totally! (Unless you like Nakey Dolls. O.o;; Then I think you are a bit... strange.)

^__^ Glue, fabric, and imagination! (yes, I said glue. I know I'm pathetic.) That's what I'm going to do. I'd rather make crappy clothes than buy from a retailer (that copies, nonetheless) at $40-100 versus what I could learn from.

 

PS-- whats this whole "reve en popee situation"? I'm new so I probably completely missed it.

 

I definitely prefer dolls with clothes ON. I also only buy doll clothes only if I can't make the item myself. (like a suit or something)

 

I dont' know..Half of my babies are naked, the other half have clothes. I see no difference.
To me: dolls themselves don't need clothes. Dolls' owners do need their dolls in clothes. And what the owner chooses, the doll gets. Dolls can't turned around and say you picked the wrong style for me!!

I am not sure if all clothes are made the same style or fabrics. but i know cheaper clothing has cheaper materials and the sewn lines are less and not as nice. Where as bigger comp will spend hundreds of thousand to get the right fabrics, color, designs down to the size of thread. You can always pick one out at a big company and take it to the smaller one to compare or via.

x.

 

Ha! They've announced right on their website that they are copies.

"Offered at a very competitive price & is just as good in quality & make as branded Korean & Japanese doll Fittings!!"

 

It has nothing to do with if a company is big versus if its small. There are small companies with high ethics, just because a company is big doesn't mean they try harder or do things better, it might just mean they have better marketing.

American Apparel is a growing company, and you can buy the same shirt in the same color in the same size and it won't even fit the same.

 

I agree with that statement. =P I don't think anyone who was actually looking for the original versions would be fooled into buying this, but I do think it's a good idea to let other people know.

I wonder if Volks and BTSSB hadn't made a collaboration to make those outfits to-scale for BJDs, would there still be a problem? What if a person were to commission an outfit that is a replica of a BTSSB dress that wasn't already produced for dolls?

I'm not defending the company, but I'm not particularly bothered either.

 

It does.....in many aspect of the clothing. You are more than welcome you do an exact comparison of them.
A shirt from XOXO will have better of everything compare to a the similar at Fashion 21 (sorry, i live in SC, so not sure if you know which comp i am talking about)
Hence the price and fitting of them are very different.

People like to buy clothes for cheaper if they can. Because styles changes alot and no one really wear their clothes until they fall off their bodies.

I also don't believe or say buying two from two comps will give you the same fitting and color. It will be slightly different in color/style/materials/and fitting. size will say S but won't fit the same


Aside from people clothing....Dolls clothing seems like many notice that the copies are of worse quality. But why is the prices as high??? They accept it's copies, so it should be cheaper .

 

I'm rather new to DoA, so I'm wondering if there's been a thread lambasting Doll Heart? I see on their website tons of sold out lolita shoes that look like shoes from Baby, AP, etc. as well as VW rocking horse shoes.

From what I get reading this so far is it's ok to make a copy of a human-sized dress into doll-size, but it's not ok to copy a doll-sized dress that was based off a human-sized dress?

I've seen many a commission request in the lolita community for copies of brand dresses, so I don't see what the uproar is. If I could sew, my girl would have the entire Baby catalogue.

Personally, I would buy the last dress from them in a heartbeat if I could stomach the friviolity of spending $200 on a dress for a doll rather than for myself. I own the human version of it and I'd love my girl to have the matching dress. It's very detailed and to replicate it in a doll-sized dress must be more difficult, so I can (somewhat) understand the pricing.

 

The dresses in question were made as a collaborative effort with BtSSB and Volks, they were very special and limited sets made to commemorate their collaboration Momoko Ryugasaki doll. The reason why people are upset is because Cotindoll has copied the dresses and purses simply because they know the actual Volks ones sell well and did them in shoddy materials and without Baby's permission.

No one has mentioned Dollheart in this thread but I'm sure I've brought it up before, and it should also be mentioned that Leekeworld is guilty of copying lolita brands too, but since it is not technically illegal nothing can be done. Nothing can really be done with these doll clothing designs either, but it's just rude and inconsiderate to rip off Volks/Baby's idea and then overcharge for them as well, especially when it's on Volks doll models. A lot of "BJD ethics" are discussed on this board because of the fact that most of these companies are spread out across Asia, meaning not a whole lot can be legally resolved. Members must look into their own hearts for guidance on what or what not to buy, but sometimes evidence needs to be brought into light first.

 

If you're talking about the pink one, that's the original Volks/BTSSB release (being used to compare the handbag duplication).

Personally I don't mind replicating human designs into doll size, but that is mostly because a. they have to totally remake the pattern (so it's almost more 'inspired by' than copying... the contindoll replicas are clearly actual direct copying of a pattern) and b. because of size/fabric constraints, everything has to be at least partially re-designed in order to work and look good. So, I feel they put a lot of effort into making a doll dress (or shoes) inspired by human ones.

I agree with previous posters who said that the copies are of far inferior quality to the originals, and that it would be hard to mistake one for the other. It's amazing that they charge about the same for the cheap imitation than they did the originals.

H

 

Does anybody really know if they are direct replicas (made by taking apart the Volks/BTSSB originals and using them as patterns)? One can truly only tell if they physically had both sets and were able to compare them.

 

Personally, I'm always really surprised that people get away with this sort of thing... Not necessarily angry, per say, but just... genuinely surprised.
-V

 

From the pictures I have seen of cotindoll (no I'm not going to go buy one) if they didn't actually take a dress apart, they still made it virtually identical, changing only the material used. Every detail, every ribbon and gather, appear to be identical (except, as I said, in different material, using different lace and bows).

If someone else wants to buy one and compare that is fine, but from the photographs of both I am confident that they were in fact a direct copy. I'm willing to admit that they may have just looked at the other dress, but like I said, I'm not going to give them the business of buying one for the sake of comparison.

H

 

It seems to me that this, in the end, comes down to a matter of choice. You can have absolutely no qualms about buying a "bootleg" and buy one because you like the clothes, or you don't. There is no moral dilemma here. If you buy one, the world will not end, you will not go to hell, you will not be supporting panda and koala murder.

Either way, there are couture knockoffs all the time...even for things that aren't clothes (Vivienne Westwood orb necklaces, for example) that people don't need, as that seems to be the reason that it's okay to be mad at these people for knocking off Volks/Baby.

From what I can see this site is not claiming to be Volks/Baby, either.

Personally I don't feel like this is such a huge, massive deal. As long as people are informed that it is a knockoff and not the original, they can make the choice I mention above. But along with the right to know that you're buying something that's a knockoff, you also have the right to not be harassed for that choice. If this was a DoA seamstress making replicas and selling them, but alerting people to the fact that they are NOT really Volks/Baby, would this be such a big deal?

 

It's just like buying ( not just doll clothing ) bootleg fashions at flea markets. Bootleg handbags, name brands and knock off designer fragrances.
You can tell from the moment you lay eyes on the item if it's fake.
I'm pretty sure lots of us here have purchased something that looks similar to the real thing, KNOWING it was a fake.

As long as these sellers do not "claim" their merchandise to be genuine -insert brand name here- then, no... they are not breaking any laws.
Sad but true...

 

NO- because the seamstress is giving credit to the person/company who first created it. The problem lays in the fact that this company is treating these clothes as if they were of their own design. THAT is the problem.

If you made a [insert item thingy here] and someone copied it, then sold it to other people saying that they made it first, would it make you angry? After so much hard work went into it? I would be VERY angry, and I wouldn't stand for it.

On that note, has anyone sent a letter to the companies that are being plagerized? Do they know? It's one thing if they don't care- it's another if it's being done under their noses.

 

So you're treating this as an ethical concern?

My perception of this problem is that a lot of people are offended on behalf of Volks/Baby. Both of those companies are perfectly capable of handling themselves. If you have a SERIOUS ethical dilemma and are actually completely offended that someone is copying their designs, send them an email and let them handle it.

But my point still stands. To buy or not to buy knockoffs is a personal choice. As long as they're for sale, you can say that "I am ethically against knockoffs and will only buy the original" and that's that for you.

Some people aren't concerned with the ethical implication of buying a knockoff, and that's okay too. What seems to be happening on this thread is a lot of imposing of personal ethics onto the community.

If the company said, "This is a Volks/Baby original" and it wasn't, then there would be a legal problem. But the fact is, they haven't said that and they have minute changes, so legally they're in the clear.

You can think it's rotten, and that's your right, but your right ends where someone else's right to think it's not rotten begins.

 

The thing is, they aren't saying that they made it first. They are saying that it is comparable in quality to sets made by brandname companies.

What if I mention one of the Leekeworld designs that resembles the exact design of Volks Yo-SD Chinatsu's default wig? Where do we draw the line in categorizing a company as producing "knock-offs" and "plagarizing"?

 

What saddens me is that all the effort and money these copycats put into making these counterfit clothes could have been channeled into designing and producing their own original designs, ones that may have been even cuter than what they copied, and untainted by any stigma of stealing and moral ickyness.
It's so dissapointing to me that they've gone into this, because I was looking forward to buying some of their wigs, but now... *Sigh*
But that probably doesn't matter to them, I'm just some schmuck in California, who can't afford to buy either the Volks or the copy...

 

First, I'd like to start out by saying that this situation doesn't effect me, because I have NO INTENTION of ever buying clothing for my doll that costs more than what I would pay for myself ($100 for an outfit? No, sorry- I have better things to spend my money on).
That being said, I was taking offensive for the original ARTISTS. I'm not offended by the companies, I'm offended by the actions that they took. So yes, ethically, it is wrong to steal from others.

As Bunnywink pointed out, Ok, so they didn't claim it as theirs first, but they do, by selling it through there site and attaching their name to it, they claim it as their own. That is what I have a problem with. They don't give credit to the original creators. That, without giving credit, is stealing to me- ESPECIALLY when the two items are so close in detail.

(Hell, at this point, do we even KNOW if any of the clothing in question [both original and copy] are copyrighted? Maybe that should be the real question.)

I at no point, disputed anyone's rights. It's a person's right to spend their money as they so choose. I haven't dictated anyone's actions, nor stated "DON'T BUY FROM HERE! THEY ARE CROOKS!" If it's against your rights to state your opinion, or against mine for that matter, well, I think we have a different issue on our hands.

 

wow, not subtle at all are they

 

I was just looking at that site today because they have some cute wigs too. Anyone know if they're copying someone else on wigs? These two in particular:

http://eng.cotindoll.com/front/bin/ptdetail.phtml?Part=ASCW032T31&Category=101054

http://eng.cotindoll.com/front/bin/ptdetail.phtml?Part=ASCW017033&Category=101054

I really like them, but if they're copying I'd rather just go buy from the originals >.>

Laura