Transgender/intergender dolls?

I have one doll, a Dear Mine Korat, who is genetically a boy but doesn't identify as male or female, so I guess he's genderfluid? I call him "him" even though that line of doll doesn't even have boy bits. But, he wears whatever he likes and likes whoever he likes. Haha. XD

 

None of my on-topic dolls at the moment, though I certainly wouldn't rule it out as a possibility...

Billy as a character is decidedly not genderfluid, but the first thing I made him was a little dress and he has a pair of girl shoes. The dress was the easiest thing to make so that he wouldn't be naked when he came, and the shoes are just irresistably cute. And Vince just wears whatever looks good, so his gender presentation is semi-fluid I guess, even if his gender is not.

I don't have any genderqueer characters prioritized in terms of dolls I plan to purchase, but I do have genderqueer characters on the big list of characters I'd love to someday buy resin bodies for.

I'm fluid myself and enjoy exploring gender as a concept through writing, and would like my dolls to have a wide range of identities and presentations because that's just another way of dealing with gender through art... but so far the resin crew is pretty much cismale.

 

I don't currently have any transgender or intergender dolls here or planned, but there's an amazing project journal going on for a FTM doll in the project journals forum here: http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?531046-Making-Salem-the-Steampunk-Pirate-UPDATE

 

I don't have any dolls like that but I have a friend who has a doll (the name escapes me), but the doll is based off a character she RPed in the World of Darkness setting. The soul was a human female but it ended up back on Earth in a male body. The same friend also has a character whose being is essentially spirit (I guess it was more male) but was then made into a human female. She's looking to sand off the boy bits for that doll so it's more gender neutral.

 

Honestly there's about ten thousand threads discussing dolls and gender on this forum. For some reason it's a really hot topic that people love rehashing over and over again.
Here's one thread, for example.
And another.
And one more.
And yet another.
And that was only from the first page of results. The search bar, it is your friend.

 

i dont have the dolls yet but i have one character who is half demon. when she is in her human form she has a girls body but when she transforms into her demon form she becomes a he and has a boy's body. and a second character who is a cross dresser. she straps down her chest, stuff her long hair under her beanie, and rocks boys clothes.

 

Just to be clear, Intergender is the same as being androgynous? this whole "a person who identify as both genders, no genders" thing is rather confusing as far as I know, if your private parts are male, then you are a male and vice versa. You might want to be a woman, or feel like a woman but you're still a male unless you change your body and become transgender...I just don't get how one person can be 'genderless' or have 'both genders' (unless they're an hermaphrodite).

I don't want to offend anyone, human sexuality is very complex but this is the first time I hear that someone can be "genderless" so I was intrigued

As for the OP, I have one off-topic doll who is very girly, he likes to wear girl clothes but he has a male body. I never really thought about this, the doll just felt right with those clothes but as personality goes, he seems himself as a boy (yep, he's also gay). I don't think this is the same as being transgender hehe he's just a gay boy who wears girly clothes/make up but has the personality of a man (doesn't act/talk effeminate).

 

Intersex is the word for a human being who has both male and female sex genes/traits/genitalia-- 'hermaphrodite' is no longer applied to people, and some consider it offensive, though I know it wasn't meant that way just now. Just letting you know! Intersex individuals sometimes identify as one sex or the other, but not always, and as with a lot of trans* folk, this doesn't necessarily correlate with what surgeries have or haven't been undergone (though surgeries on intersex people is usually done to them as infants, often without consulting parents beforehand). And some people identify as bi-gendered, or genderfluid. Bi-gendered people would consider themselves simultaneously male and female regardless of their physical/genetic makeup. Genderfluid people may feel that they are male, female, both, or neither at different times.

(whew, sorry for the big infodump!)

Anyway, here's Billy in his simple dress and girl shoes:


Sorry the lighting is so terrible... there's one with better lighting but the shoes are cut out, and the shoes are really the best part. I love the little cat-face mary janes. The fact that my only tiny is a boy can't stop me from using them. (so far he only has the one super-simple dress and he mostly wears his dino costume but that's not to say he won't have future girly things... and Vince is often mistaken for female when in his long wig and all his pink stuff)

Anyway, the dress was made so he wouldn't be nude-on-arrival-- or at least, would be able to then be dressed soon after arrival. Which is why it's simple, basic, and not pants despite Billy's gender identity and in-character unlikeliness to be in a dress... but yeah. I might have to make him a cute skirt or something sometime.

 

Chaste was going to be a girl that dressed and acted as a boy but somehow when his head was complete (face-upped, wig, eyes) I just looked at him and thought 'nope, you were born a lad weren't you?'. HEis character has still retained a lot of the feminine traits however. It could possibly be because I bought another girl doll during getting him complete. I'm not really sure!

 

yumi~: Physically determined sex-at-birth and gender are actually two separate things. Sex at birth tends to be determined by the present genitals on an infant, usually determined on a binary basis. (That is, you're either a girl, or you're a boy.) However, intersex people do not fit into this binary system, and there are several other conditions that can make sex-at-birth differentiating a flawed system (for example, an XY who didn't have enough testosterone to have their genitals become a penis, or an XX whose testosterone overrode their chromozonal sex and as a result, their genitals became a penis. There are other conditions as well, such as XXY or XYY and other reasons such as infant sex changes due to botched circumsicions (but these days this is generally frowned upon)).

Gender, however, is much more fluid. Imagine, for the sake of simple comparison (though the issue is actually much more complex), that there are a whole bunch of people and you had to line them up from the most outgoing to the most introverted. There would be one person at either end of the line, with the rest scattered somewhere in between. Also, depending on the moods of the participants, this order might change. One or two people would always be standing where they were, but the others might move around. This is what we call a spectrum, and a sliding spectrum, and it is in this way that a person's gender acts. Some people (like me) have a very strong female-identifying gender. Others have a strong male-identifying gender, and a lot of people are in between and some days they can feel more one than the other, or a little of both at the same time, or any combination in between the two outlying points. Even people who identify as one gender or the other also do this. For example, there are days when I want to wear pretty dresses and a bucketload of makeup because I'm feeling particularly feminine that day, whereas other days all I want is to wear hoodies and sweats and play video games, and I can't abide dresses and makeup. I always identify as female but some days are more female than others.

Also, your physical sex and your gender might not match up. This is where someone identifying as trans* comes into it. It's important here that these people don't just "believe" that they're not their assigned-at-birth sex. They actually aren't. A trans*woman is a woman, and a trans*man is a man. It doesn't matter what their physical sex is because what matters is their gender. In fact, it can actually be really really harmful to people to tell them that they are not the gender that they identify as - and it's also a really big dick move besides.

In answer to the OP's question, however, I have plans for one intersex dolly, for my phoenix character Adelaide (Lai.) She's a female identifying character who shares some of the properties of the phoenix such as rebirth and strong healing capabilities.

((Apologies if anything I said in this post is inaccurate. Feel free to correct me if I have any misconceptions.))

 

I have Rachel. She's still identifying as a girl at the point the doll represents her, since the character is still fairly young and hasn't been exposed to the idea of other options just yet. I will probably eventually have an adult version of the character in doll form, but I haven't thought that far ahead. I'd need to find the perfect sculpt first.



I still need to do a lot of research on this topic, since I admit to not knowing a lot about it - not enough to really write Rachel a little older with confidence just yet. I don't want to do it all wrong and make people mad at me >.< Chibihaku's explanation was a good start! Thanks! But I know I still have much more research to do.

 

I have boy dolls which are dressed/wigged as girls, and girls dressed/wigged as boys. I did feel a bit guilty for doing this to them at first, like they even care LOL - Or rather I felt guilty dressing a 'boy' as a girl - I have no guilt dressing a girl as a boy since many real life females dress like men and aren't very feminine (as in conforming to the age-old stereotype - which is out of date these days IMO) But to dress a boy as a girl seemed 'cruel' somehow - mainly because in real life males are very much pressured to conform to the age-old macho stereotype - ridiculed or criticised if they don't, from about the age of one month old! How I dress my dolls is nothing to do with gender preference or sexuality though - it's just a matter of which clothes I'd like them to wear - whatever I think looks nice or cute etc. I have managed to convince myself that a tiny resin penis shouldn't dictate to me what clothes my doll can wear. In an ideal World, the same should apply to real life men/women, regardless of biology - it's a shame stereotypes dictate so much and limit so many people in their choices really.

 

I used to have a character who identified as androgynous most of the time, though leaned towards male more often than female, if leaning either way. Sixx had a Doll Chateau male body, and the character was born male and never had any surgeries/mods, never felt the need to. Gender pronouns were generally avoided when referring to Sixx, though no offense was ever taken IC or OOC if somebody used 'he' or 'she'. I also had a doll named Leander, who had a male body (doll and character), but always dressed and identified as female. In fact, many people never knew Leander was a male doll/character, aside from her boyfriends and their owner/players!

Before I got into BJDs, I had an off topic doll named Blue whose character was born intersexed, but identified as male. The doll itself had no particular gender (not detailed like BJDs, and a body of a child/preteen), but the character had both male and female parts, though neither were fully formed.

I no longer own either doll, since the stories kind of fell through and I lost the bonds, but nothing says I'll never have another!

 

@elve my 11yr old has been cross dressing boy dolls in everything from wedding dresses, to tube dresses to bikinis...I find it ok, I actually feel sorry for them :-).
Im very old school, before the term goth or grunge was defined the way it is now...in my day, guys had no problem wearing eyeliner and dark nail polish. In the late 80's they also wore pincurl hairdos, and that was also a dancehall trend. They were very comfortable with their sexuality.
To translate that into doll world, I think it's just as awesome, I'm waiting patiently to get a boy dolly, I might just have to get him a bro or two so they could be a crew of little weirdos, that's how I like it, and I'm glad to see people who can do as they please with their dolls openly.
Now think about this...some little boys play with girl dolls dressing them up etc..how different is that from girls cross dressing boy dolls? It's an innocent comment, so please don't hang me. I just see it all as harmless play, I guess as my moot point.

 

Well, he doesn't really identify as 100% male OR female, so he's not too bothered about the pronouns. Since he was born and raised male, he's used to being "he" and doesn't worry about it, and if he gets referred to as a "she" when dressed in girly clothes, that doesn't bother him either!

 

My newest doll was assigned female at birth, but identifies as a man. He is shelled as a doll with a female body, because there is no such thing as a sex reassignment surgery in his universe, but he binds his chest, which means the doll will be modded to appear like that.
I always refers to him with male pronouns, and luckily every doll owner I know does the same.

 

I have a couple dolls with different gender identities. One of them is biologically male, but he is not masculine at all (lacks male hormones, so I guess that makes him intersex). People often think he is a girl, so he just lets them think that. As a result, he's pretty gender fluid. He has a feminine body type, so currently he's on a flat-chested female body. I'm sort of hoping to get him a male chest in the future, and at least see if that works better for him.

Another doll of mine was supposed to be male, but has ended up on a female body. It's the body he came with, it suits him well and poses very nicely... it's the best option I've got for him, but it's hard to use male pronouns when he looks like a girl, has breasts, and dresses effeminately I'm waiting for the company he's from to release a flat chest option for him too. Then he can keep his pretty body, but without the boobs. The character isn't supposed to be transgender, but it kinda seems like he's a transman or something simply because of the body he's on.

 

eleniel I hadn't seen those threads or searched for them - to me my dolls are just dolls rather than real characters with gender identity or sexuality (which also have nothing to do with each other) - my dolls don't really have a preference either way of course, but I do find it strange when people want to simply swap one set of stereotypical clothes/behaviours for another - All stereotypes are oppressive and limiting, so I would like to think that dolls (and people) can be individuals, with their gender (by birth or assumed) an irrelevance to their style or behaviour.

 

I do! I have a gender queer boy, Salem, he's a dream or doll Luke and he's probably borderline female to male transgender but, yeah I love him, he's my handsome, awesome little mod project and my grail doll. Salem is a character from a series of stories that I have written/am writing.

 

dancing skeleton: Yes, I especially fall into pronoun use issues when talking to people about my dolls or characters. It's easy to use the correct pronoun in my head, but not when I'm talking to my sister who doesn't get that sort of thing and just sees a pretty girl doll. Since you ask, here's my gender fluid boy, Suna

Suna by Yukamina, on Flickr

 

Funny thing, I hardly ever think about the gender topic as such, neither with people nor with dolls (I know a few trans* people (both mtf and ftm) and I'm one of the few who doesn't give a rat's behind about physical appearance vs actual gender). Maybe my Katie counts as genderfluid - she dresses pretty boyish most of the time, denims and hoodies and stuff. For concerts (she's a violin student) she goes a little more "girly-pretty".
I don't have any trans* dolls, nor am I currently planning any. I guess I'm on the fluid side myself so hey, whatever floats your boat

edit, this is her (the only decent pic I have of her in her typical clothes on her current body):

 

dancing skeleton: I don't believe I have any pictures of Leander anymore, and I know I don't of Blue (he was off topic anyway), but here is what Sixx looked like:

 

dancing skeleton - I haven't gotten a lot of pictures of him yet, since he hasn't got a face-up or the mod I want for him, but I did get a simple picture of his face.

 

...Just throwing in my support as a trans BJD lover for those of you who create characters like this. I appreciate the consideration that people give to the subject/concept. There are all flavors of trans-folk, I guess, and I'd like to point out that. As well as... that it's totally okay that people want to make up a character like this, and I feel kind of bad hearing people worried they are going to offend. (even if it's a real concern, and yeah, some people worry a whole lot about accurate portrayal and will be irked by inaccurate portrayals or something that shows the subject in any certain 'light'.) Well.... I think it's awesome that you're fleshing out a thoughtful character that came from the heart, and a character who has an interesting (and possibly quite emotional and personal) story to be told. I'm not from the school of thought where 'those who haven't been through it could never understand'... I believe people in general have potentially a whole lot of compassion, ability to empathize and can be intuitive and understanding. And heck, if you write something about your transgender or intergender character and your writing ends up speaking to someone who really is moved by it, or like.. just hearing you talk about it makes them feel they aren't alone, that's just great. DO make your trans characters and enjoy them. ...also, I really personally do not care if the central idea of a character is them being trans or whatever. I don't think its 'not a good enough reason' to make up a character... and while yeah, you might see it as more of a 'starting point' or realistically, you might say, it 'should' be just one of many aspects of who that character is... Yeah, I appreciate when someone works hard to make a realistic character and be fair in their portrayal, but honestly, sometimes people just make things up to have fun/express something or they want to mull over the concept or whatever... my sentiment is "so what?". I don't find that offensive. I've made up characters on a whim especially for role playing purposes whose character revolved around a much, much smaller concept than the idea of being trans, and the whole.. psychology of the character just completely not really thought out or anything... like when you make an NPC in role-play or like tabletop games to demonstrate something or to fill a specific role... nobody ever asks, you know, why didn't the writers of this fantasy action video game give the minor character running the item shop a childhood!? I'm saying... I have no reason to give people the heat because they want a character to be trans. Obviously, if they're using that doll/character to try and spread stigma and loathing and cause headaches for transfolk, sure, that's worth getting mad over, but I appreciate that people are bothering with the subject to begin with, cause heaven knows, I've thrown my hands up in the air. As a FTM, ("gay" FTM... I use quotation marks for my own reasons... using quotations to refer to a FTM as gay is not what you should do. I'm quirky, and relatively confusing, and I'm kind of not sorry about it either.) the subject of trans-awareness, acceptance... umm.. just the subject of what the 'general stereotype' is... worrying about portrayal... that whole... big.... subject gives me a huge headache. There are so many people with their different ideas about how gender identity, intersexed, LBGT all that stuff is supposed to be portrayed. The more you know about the subject, the more you----- and I think some fellow 'LGBT' folks would laugh and nod,--- realize, sometimes you can't even please the LGBT people, let alone the rest of the world! If you want to go ahead and try and portray something in a positive light, and make the world approve, that's fine, but realise, you've got people on the inside who will still disagree. People disagree over many things surrounding Transsexuals and relevant subjects. Like I said, you might not get the approval of every single person under that LGBT umbrella.. Sometimes, you're lucky if you can even get the L! ...at some point, you've got to just do what makes you happy. Regardless of the big, raging, opinionated world... And perhaps, that sentiment right there is very much in the spirit of 'transgender pride' after all.

Ah, I had a YOSD who, in my head, was going to be a male... then she got here, and I slowly decided had NO gender... Now she has been passed on to my good friend, who decided she was female. Not sure if that counts, but the character I imagined was definitely between genders. She's shaped like a fantasy creature which makes it all a bit umm.. questionable I guess, since it's not the idea of a human being who considers themselves in-between genders.. it's the idea of a fantasy dragon who appears to be more masculine than not but definitely feels and is physically neither... with am impish little feminine personality on the side. Eh, even I can't say if or not that "counts"? The doll is a female now in her new home, though, and my friend's imagination has created a new character for that doll... I felt that I wasn't going anywhere with that character, that it was a mistake to make up a character after buying the doll, and that it's more my thing to 'shell' a character I've already come to know and love. Plus, I just knew the doll would be better loved in her new home where she's spoiled now.

 

I have a ftm doll I am currently working on, Akira; I plan on buying him a female body because he is supposed to be in early stages of transitioning. Right now he's currently borrowing my Jun Tachibana's body because I wanted to test how the proportions would work out.

Aki's boyfriend is gender fluid, though he tends to present male.

 

I have way in the future plans to customize an ftm trans* doll, but it'll be a while before that happens. His name is Jason, and I've got a mostly complete personality and backstory in my head for him but, well, moneyyyy. XD It's really cool that I'm not the only one interested in doing this, though. I never thought I'd find a thread about the topic.

 

dancing skeleton: I will definitely post many pictures of him when the day eventually comes. The more I think about him the more I think I'd like to bump him up a little higher on my wishlist. [Not that it has any effect on my funds XD] But good luck with your purchases dude! I'm sure you'll make it work out somehow.

 

dancing skeleton: I didn't have any of them together (or Aki at all) yet, so I took some for you

I want to get Yamato some more feminine clothes eventually, but I pretty much fail at making that sort of thing >___>; And he's not really a gothic lolita type (e.g. what bjd clothing made for cross dressing generally caters toward). And I also need to redo Aki's faceup. He inherited his head from another of my dolls and it still has the old faceup ^^;--but here they are as of now:



(Yamato is the one with pink hair . . . )


And here is Aki by himself, in case you were interested in how the Jun's SDGr body works for him. He's got a bit of gauze wrapped around the chest under the loose shirt:



(Ignore Yasuo in the background, he's not relevant to this thread XD)

And from the side:



The body I'm planning on from him has a similar chest size, as well as I can judge from photos. So this was a good test for him

 

My LLoyd is now a girl... I just could not see "him" as a boy at all. But the first thing people say when they pick her up is "she has a penis!" I guess cause when you pick up a YOSD you kind of put your thumb on the lower waist.. At least that's how I do it

 

Aww! I love seeing everyone's photos!

 

I don't have one but I always wanted one. I have effeminate looking men but that's about it. I would like one but not sure where to start do I buy and girl body and go to a man or man to a women. I wish there were more soft bodies then you could stuff the man's chest and then put a tight belt on to give him a figure and slowly do the change. One day I hope to have one.

 

I'm trans myself (I ID as FtM/a trans man, though my presentation varies :P) and I like to reflect myself in my stories--which turn into my dolls. My Pen is genderfluid, but mostly identifies as masculine and was DFAB, though he's a shapeshifter. His ideal body is one of the DollZone MSD ones with the wide hips and soft curves. His presentation is very fluid and he likes to dress up. One of my next dolls is Linden, who's a trans guy as well. Later down the line I'll get Fallon and Jacqui, who are both trans women. I don't know if I'll ever get him, but Jacqui's boyfriend Gerard is also a trans man. It's really cool to hear from cis people (people whose gender identity matches their designated birth sex) who have trans characters, though!

 

Hmmm, I guess Peppermint sort of belongs here?

He's definitely gender-fluid, though he's not a human character. He's a god. It made sense that a god would not have a gender (why would a god adhere to a human construct like gender?); the male pronouns are for ease of communication, but he was created from inception to be genderless and therefore quite androgynous in presentation. It's never an issue to him, and he was definitely not created to BE a non-binary character specifically (I have other human ones that were). He just... happened. And I forget that it could be very significant. I'm cis-gendered, but I have many characters who are trans/gender-fluid/genderless/from societies where gender is an entirely alien concept. (One character in the pipeline is an AI. Also uses male pronouns, but also completely unconcerned with notions of gender. He doesn't even have a body really, other than a projection he has to use to communicate with humans who have difficultly not having a face to a voice... which is what I'd have to get a doll of. :P)

Peppermint with me. And with a friend. He makes a pretty pretty girl. His body is genderless, as per his character.

 

Edtel, don't even worry about making people mad.I feel like the first two questions of the the original post of this topic are extremely character-centered questions. What character your doll is going to be is your decision. As long as your intent for making your doll's character isn't subconsciously nor consciously trying to spread hate/discrimination (of course this is subjective but I say this as a non-anal, well-balanced casual person), then do not worry about offending anybody relating to these specific issues that are different from eachother.

It's cool that you want to do research. That's a very nice gesture in your behalf. And I think many of us would appreciate that. It's just really up to how you want your character to be. Are they a mary sue? Are they well written? Does the character care about social norms? Aware? Is the character going to be easily naive forever? Is this going to be a happy story? is this just going to be boring super duper drama that I don't care about? Those are some questions that are at the back of my mind when reading stories (or *cough* watching horrible filipino tv drama shows *cough*)

You can shell your character to whatever doll with or without any modification you wish. That body is for a character you made for your own personal reasons dear to you. If someone else has a problem (being offended) with your doll due to some aspect of the doll's trangendered or intersexed state being "inaccurate" (as if there is a "standard" of what a random person should be), there is no way you should feel guilty that your character of the doll does not match their "better" version of your actual character you created. Because obviously your doll's character isn't about that hater's accurate life.

Your doll has her own personality, weaknesses, joys and all that good stuff that goes beyond her own body. I feel sorry for those haters who can't see that. So please, do not be afraid to explore her story

I don't have any dolls (until march), but he isn't going to be transgendered. Tho, I am personally bothered of the mentality that people who are this cannot make characters who are that. Enjoyable imagination presented to the public should be limited by your skills as a writer or speech person or artist, not by your body -_-

 

finally got my AoD small bust female body for my dollzone Freddy head - who is a girl (named Ellis - gender-neutral name) although Freddy is a male sculpt...but she identifies as male and dresses in boy's clothes LOL - I'm not sure if I've done FtM or MtF with this doll! Really I don't think gender matters as much as individuality - be yourself rather than a gender stereotype, whether that's male of female - as I've said before in this thread. Ellis won't be having any modifications to her female body any time soon, if ever, but she likes to be perceived as male, although really s/he is just 'Ellis' - a unique individual. S/he is asexual, which does make things less complicated!

 

Elve, I'd say Ellis is FTM, since they have a female designated at birth body and identify as male. I hope that helps! He's super cute in his outfit, though.

 

The boy that is on his way to me is not so much transgender because while he loves many girl things, especially their clothes, he identifies himself as male. He however would much rather get a manicure, and yes most of the time his nails are done, than watch, let alone play football. However baseball is an entirely different story. He loves baseball, both watching and playing.

 

thanks jemlovecraft I am planning on getting dollzone Alpha head only (male sculpt) and buying a super-busty body for her - She'll be MtF then I guess, and very thrilled with her new 'assets' too I do have a couple of tinies which are dressed opposite to their gender, but that's more a case of they wear what I think suits them - tiny children have little say in what they wear!

 

I have characters that are physically hermaphrodites that I would like to shell, though they identify as female (all with varying levels of stereotypical "femininity"). I do want to mod them so they have the applicable genitals, though it is doubtful I would ever even take pictures of them undressed. I have a lot of reasons for liking this physical and gender identity, and want the dolls to correctly display the characters' situation in their shell.

 

It warms my little trans heart to read such balanced and thoughtful posts about transgender/genderqueer/genderfluid dolls. A friend has been showing me some posts on tumblr (yes, here be trolls) where people have been having kittens over an owner's decision to create a trans character in doll form. I have found them to be extremely depressing to read and have abandoned it. So much anger and spite on both sides of the divide. This thread has restored my faith in the BJD community's ability to approach this topic in a adult fashion.

The fact is that our hobby attracts a disproportionate number of LGBT people. My belief is that our highly-customisable dolls lend themselves to exploration of identity in a safe setting. They therefore fulfill a useful therapeutic function. Whether you are exploring your own gender identity by creating these characters or simply find it an interesting character basis is all good. Do I find it to be a problem that some of these characters appear to "fetishising" transpeople? Not at all. We fetishise all types of people in our hobby. Why should we be exempt? We are not such special little snowflakes. Providing it is done with some element of understanding and the transperson is not presented as a "freak", it is all healthy exploration. Keep it all coming!

 

Well said. I think that at some point it's no longer an "exploration" as much as it is an expression; I've got my spot on the continuum figured out but I still like other ideas about gender and identity just as much and want a visual expression of them to enjoy. Perhaps it's more apparent when one owns many dolls, but to me each doll becomes an aspect of the collector's personality and philosophy in the same way that many deities have multiple aspects not all of which are the same gender.

 

Yes, sometimes I see people complaining that people are 'fetishizing' certain groups of people with their dolls. But I don't think people are obligated to create dolls that accurately represent normal, everyday people in the percentages they occur in real life (~% must be this race, ~% must be this sexual orientation, etc). These are our own asian ball jointed dolls, which we buy and style to be beautiful and special to us. So it's only natural that many people will create dolls after things they like, even if it's not a realistic, down-to-earth portrayal of transpeople (or other groups).

 

I think one of the reasons that some queer people feel so strongly about "fetishsizing" is that queer represenation in the media often fetishizes or casts them in demeaning roles (not uncommon at all for any minority group really). Personally I feel that a niche hobby like this isn't the best target for that sort of criticism, but I understand that not everyone is going to share that view (I am extremely lax in taking offense to things). I feel it's more appropriate to criticize this in mainstream media, which is where it can have a very negative impact due to the amount of people who see that representation and do not educate themselves further.

When it comes to BJD I think a better solution is to make the characters and dolls that you want to see. If you feel offended or threatened by fetishizing, then lead by example and make some photostories that show queer characters in another light. People don't tend to take it well if you attempt to educate them by calling them out or lecturing them. So get them interested in other representation of queer characterization.

Note: it does depend a little on how it is being presented, though I don't think I've ever really seen a case that I would personally consider crossing a line. For me there would have to be a clear intent to make fun of or attack to constitute crossing a line.


* I am using the term queer, because I have also seen this sort of reaction regarding LGBTQIA persons/dolls other than transgender as well, and I feel it applies equally.

** Since I did not state it before and I believe the disclosure is applicable to the conversation, I am saying this as someone who identifies as mostly agender, with a slight leaning toward the binary gender that does not match my birth sex.


tl;dr: I agree with you both, and am pointing out the people who complain about it are responding from a deeper hurt, possibly due to the shortage of positive queer [role] models in media. As with most things, human feelings are complicated and it is difficult to arrange things so that everyone is happy and unhurt.

 

I was going to comment with something very much along these lines.
I, too, think that criticizing queer representation in media is very important, but as dolls are a private thing, I think people can do what they want.
But there is certain subjects most people will call out immediately. If people cross a certain line, I will probably say something. Not if they post the pictures privately of course or here on DoA, where being confrontal is discouraged.

 

I just wanted to post a new picture of my sweet guy, now that he has a face-up.
Hopefully I can get a proper photoshoot of him and his girlfriend soon!

 

That is a very sweet face.

And chipping in on the fetishising vs negative stereotypes thing. These are two different things. Completely. If one is fetishing a type of person, one is making them the focus of sexual interest to the extent, perhaps, of objectifying them. That has nothing to do with the negative and uninformed depictions of transpeople in the media. If (and a big "if") some people fetishise transfolk by making trans characters as dolls, it shows that they are interested enough to spend hundreds of dollars and hours of thought and effort into resincarnating them. Yes, it might not be a 100% accurate depiction of a transperson, as this is a subtle and difficult subject. What you can be sure of, though, is that the owner would not have spent all that time and money producing an object of hate. And, reading through this thread, it appears that the vast majority of people with trans character dolls are aware that they might not have it exactly right and are open to finding out more. This has to be good.

Transpeople have been invisible and taboo for too long. At least in the UK, with programs like My Transsexual Summer and My Genderation, this is changing. Transpeople are slowly entering the mainstream, no longer thought of as something exotic (or, as has been the case, freaks). The apparent increase in the number of trans character dolls must be a reflection of this. And, whilst I have tried, I just can't see anything wrong with that.

 

Technically off-topic, but "resincarnating" may just have jumped to the top of my "favorite doll terms" list!

 

Akatsuki, your guy has such a sweet face!

I've enjoyed following this discussion (and seeing all the lovely dolls themselves, as I'd previously mentioned), and I feel I'm in agreement with a couple people here re: fetishization-- even when things verge on it, the people here with dolls on the genderqueer spectrum are acting out of love and frequently a desire to learn more, and I think that's wonderful.

 

Some of my characters identify as gender queer since they're aspects of me. I have two characters that are intersex gnomes daemons. So... Hopefully I can she'll these characters soon.

 

I sort of have one... She wasn't planned, but here she is! I ordered an Angell-Studio Kimi on a girl body, but they accidentally sent me the boy body instead. This is a pretty girly character (aiming for pastel goth), so at first I was going to sand off his you know, but now the idea of leaving him intact is appealing to me.