Discussion The Joint: BJD-making discussion

Alright, now that sculpting in an acceptable topic on here- I could never get on the Joint because my computer said it could be hacked or something and wouldn't let me access it, and my searches online have yielded a million and two different answers, so once and for all, straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak:

What does someone need to begin sculpting? What sculpting mediums, tools, materials, etc.? I'm sure everyone has favorites and opinions, but they're so varied that I really don't know what I should be looking for. Is there a general consensus among sculptors here for anything? I'd love to hear more on how to get started!

 

I use a basic sculpting tool set, a dremel multitool and sandpaper. Sculpey, millyput, fimo (bake clay is smoother and less likely to crack, the air dry is not being a good experience for me). I'd say a good blueprint, some concept sketches and all are very important to have before you start sculpting too. Not sure what the others think though, I'm pretty much a beginner here.

 

I strongly recommend this book for anyone who wishes to start sculpting! It may not have much on the way of bjd making, but it still has a lot of info on sculpting materials, tools and the whole casting process.
Pop Sculpture

 

Thanks admins for moving me to the Joint topic

One of my friends who's been keeping up with my bird doll sculpting adventures, asked me if I could make a custom head for them; after a week of sculpting, baking, then more sculpting and more baking, this freehand doll head is almost finished. To celebrate this achievement (my first finished sculpting project), I took the time to take some photographs and share it here.

Concept
The head is based on a Japanese mythological creature called the Hakutaku (Hakutaku).
The request: a 1/3 boy, closed eyes with soft expression, neutral facial features and a third open eye.
It took four packets of Fimo modelling clay in 'flesh light' color. I have to make accommodations for the S-hook still, but that will only take another 5 minutes of work.

Features
The head is secured to the faceplate with two pairs of magnets, and features lightly pointed ears, two large horns, closed eyes with double eyelids, a third open eye with double eyelids and a prominent cupid's bow.

Project
I went to the art store and purchased a basic sculpting tool set, three packets of Fimo clay and a small styrofoam ball. I laid a thick clay layer of two packets around the skull, creating a basic shape. Don't mind the lil' iron man there, my sister loved to doodle on her old desk before she moved out When the basic shape was set, I baked for 20 minutes at 120 °C.

Spoiler: Basic shape

Next, I started adding on and sculpted the nose and lips. I tried (and failed) to find a good spot for the eyes. A lot of trial and error here, I ended up hating it, because it looked awful from the front The side view looked okay, but nowhere near what I was hoping to achieve. I baked once more at 120 °C for 20 minutes. I borrowed an eye from one of my local doll owner friends to make space for the eye.

Spoiler: Terrible start oops

After this, I took to my friend/customer and got some great feedback on how to improve the sculpt. The head was still not the right circumference either, so I added more volume too. The front looks a lot better!

Spoiler: Third bake, it's starting to look better

Added eyes. Bake. Bad phone quality, it was late, my apologies.

Spoiler: Eyes added.

After baking, I started the hacking and slashing to separate the head from the faceplate. I started with a box cutter, spoiler alert: DON'T DO THAT. A huge chunk of clay snapped off, yikes. I took to the dremel, but started off with accidentally using a part from my old multitool. Spoiler alert: DON'T DO THAT EITHER. It's really dangerous. Swapped parts, success. And wow, that styrofoam ball did not look good. The baking melted the outer layer, ew. Thanking myself in this part for wearing goggles, a facemask and gloves. Especially the mask. Safety first, everyone.

Spoiler: DUSTY

After separation, the two parts did not fit very well anymore. Add clay. Bake. Dremel. Repeat.
Drill hole for third eye, dremel so the eye fits, add eyelid. This was were I ran out of clay, so I had to go to the art store to get some more. Here I also added to the closed eyes, making the eyelids double and adding a rounded shape to simulate eyeballs under the lids. Baked. Sculpted the ears over a sketch after three horribly failed attempts to do it directly on the doll head. I used some vegetable oil to smoothen the clay as it had a very, very rough look.

Spoiler: floppy ears

Doing a size comparison on this photo, it looked really funny but it was important to make sure they were proportionately correct.

Attached the ears, baked. Drilled a first hole for magnets. Now it was time for the horns. I made three sizes, and asked my friend which they liked best. They chose the largest horns. Question: which ones would you have chosen?

Spoiler: horn sizes

After this I attached the horns, made accommodations for the magnets, attached the magnets, carved the sculpt name "HakuTaku" on the faceplate and shut the neckhole in a hollow circle to make a neck rest. I will add the holes for the S-hook later. Everything got a thorough sanding and oil treatment to smoothen any fixable blemishes. And a final bake at 120°C for 30 minutes.

 

Finished head
Yay! Finally done! What do you think? Do you like it? What would you have done differently? It was definitely a struggle, and the head has some stains from dust. Looking back I should have washed my hands more often while sculpting, and the nose holes are a bit rough, but I think I did okay for a first head. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how he will be customised

Thank you so much for browsing my journal!

Spoiler: photos of the finished head with a proper camera

 

This is a neat project! Until the Joint/Artist's subforum for sculpting is up and running, custom doll sculpting isn't on topic for the rest of DoA but for now the Mods will probably move this to our Off Topic section, "Brigadoon".
(Also- safety tip- Never put styrofoam in the oven. Now that you've done that and seem to be okay, you really ought to hand-clean and scrub the inside of that oven before baking anything for human consumption in it again. The gases given off by melting or burning styrofoam are Seriously Bad BAD news.)

 

Even if this is moved, I've gotta comment, 'cause he's seriously cool! I absolutely love how the baked clay gives a sort of uneven texture; I'm really glad you didn't sand that out, because I think it's a fantastic and interesting detail. The way the horns attach is very nice, as most BJD horns just kind of...stick straight out from the skin, which looks kind of artifical, in my opinion. Overall, I really love this guy! I can't wait to see what else you sculpt in the future.

 

Good point! I don't think any vapours got out, since it was fully encased in 1,5cm of clay
Edit: I did clean the oven afterwards

Thank you so much! The horns aren't detachable though

 

@KiyoshiSenshi one book you might like is Yoshida Style, by Ryo Yoshida. It's often available on Amazon. A bit expensive but worth every penny IMO. It's a compete detailed tutorial on making a bjd from paperclay. In Japanese, but there's an English translation floating around on the internet somewhere.

And another vote for Pop Sculpture as @LilaAIP recommended. Lots of good stuff on mold-making and casting.

 

It would depend entirely on what kind of materials you'd like to work in.
The most commonly used are:
Air-dry paper clay. This needs little more than the clay itself to get you started.
Polymer clay: For this you will need an oven to bake the clay.
There are other materials as well. Epoxy putty, modeling clay, modeling wax and many more. Each with its pros and cons.

Pretty much anything can be a sculpting tool. Experiment a lot. Bent wire, pen caps, knitting needles, toothpicks. Once you know your needs you may want to invest in professional sculpting tools, but don't waste money on them before you know you will need them.
For many parts you will also need some kind of material for the cores. For polymer clay this material needs to be able to be baked with the clay.
For finishing you will need some kind of sanding equipment that works with your clay. I work in polymer clay and use a lot of wet sanding, so good sanding papers that can handle water is what i use most of the time. I also use a Dremel with various bits and attachments, but you don't need that to get started.

Since so many of the tools and materials depend on being compatible with each other, I'd suggest that you get some clay, make some plans and just get started. As you progress you will find what you really need and it will be a lot easier to ask for tips then.

 

ETA: I'm happy to have made a lot of progress this weekend on my doll. All joints now finally function as they should. Left hip piece and hip socket need some adjustment for better fit, so I'll be working on that tonight. She's double jointed in both arms and legs, and her hip joint allows her to tuck her knees up to her chest like this:



More pics can be found on instagram.com/stray.dream

Yoshida Style is great but I'd advise that you please do NOT buy from Amazon or eBay or Etsy; people take advantage to sell this and other japanese books at very inflated prices just because a lot of westerners are unaware of or confused by japanese sites that stock them. You shouldn't be paying more than $20-30 for it including shipping. It's constantly available on Mandarake for as low as 1500 jpy.

Same advice goes for every other doll book/mook by the way.

LeMiss, that head looks really cool!

To add to the clay discussion - I use Premier paper clay. However I will add the caveat that all other paper clays are utter crap and will crack, shrink, crumble, and generally waste your time. It's night and day. Premier, Ladoll, and Ladoll Premix are all by the same company and are frankly the only option if you want to go with paperclay.

 

Here is my girl whose a tall msd/short sd

rumor

 

Hey everyone! For those sculpting, is there a material you prefer? And a brand?
I was thinking about getting some paperclay and using that to help sculpt a doll later My local craft stores have Creative Paperclay and DAS Paperclay. I didn't see any local, but I have also seen La Doll paperclay. Are these paperclays all roughly the same, or has anyone noticed anything particularly different about them? Or do you have other companies that you've tried that you prefer?
I was thinking about using paperclay for the main part of the doll, and then go over and reinforce parts with epoxie or something.

 

Thank you for the tip about finding the Yoshida book. I've been comtemplating whether the book was worth $50 +shipping on Amazon.

For paperclay: are La Doll, Premier and Premix all the same thing? I was going to order some from Amazon, but Premier (red package) is about $10 and Satin is about $15. Is Satin worth the extra $5?

 

Personally I prefer Apoxie Sculpt.
It's an air drying two-part modelling mass, that you can work on for as long as you kerp it damp/wet. If you smooth it over with water before letting it dry it gets a lovely smooth finish. Also when dry, it's hard like resin and very durable, yet not too heavy.

I'm absolutely not fond of DAS paperclay x.x It takes forever to dry and the surface never comes out smooth.

I have no experience with the other two types you mentioned, but I've heard good things about the LaDoll brand.

 

I use creative paperclay, but I intend to cast the finished pieces. If you want to make a final piece that won't be resin cast, then epoxy putty (apoxie or similar) is your best bet. DAS is okay for large, basic forms but it doesn't detail or finish as well as creative clay. I think creative paperclay is at least as good as la doll. DAS is inferior.

 

Ladoll is offwhite and softer, Premier is pure white and firmer, Premix is a combination of the two. I prefer Premier myself. Never tried Satin, so unfortunately can't help you there.

 

My personal favorites are Mungyo Sculpt dry, Darwi Roc and Jovi air dry clay. They are sturdy, small details can be easily sculpted or carved. The con of these clays is, that the finished product needs to be primed, or the doll can be damaged with water. Moreover, they shrink slightly.

Epoxy clays are good too. They are easy to sculpt and cut, they, after hardening, will not be damaged by water. On another hand, they are an expensive clay to sculpt with. What is more, it is recommended to sculpt with gloves on, because epoxy is known for irritating skin.

A good part of doll makers use DAS.
DAS pros:

• very available
• does not shrink
• cheap?
• easy to sand

DAS cons

• SMELL, it stinks
• hard to sculpt small details (after I accidentally dried the full package, I put it in water for it to become workable again, this con disappeared

You can buy both clays and sculp using both of them, mix them.

 

Has anyone tried clay NEW FANDO? As much as I have understood, it is used for figurine sculpting. I wonder is it possible to sculpt dolls with it.

 

@Swampruler

Are you sure epoxy clay is toxic? My impression is the gloves were less because of danger and more because of mess.

The Safety Data Sheet for Milliput epoxy clay is rather unremarkable (it's only listed as a skin, eye, and respiratory tract irritant--as with most chemicals and compounds).

The only concern is swallowing, and I'd guess that's more related to the heat produced when mixing the components and the fact that it hardens than that it's toxic.

In fact, the SDS specifically states that no hazardous chemicals are released from the mixed compound.

I'd imagine another concern is sanded Milliput powder, but just because inhalation of a dust is dangerous doesn't actually mean the material itself is inherently toxic.

Edit: The SDS for Apoxie Sculpt is similarly unimpressive: nonflammable, nontoxic, nonhazardous.

 

@americanseamstress the toxic one is epoxy itself and the chemical, that makes it soft.
While curing, epoxy clay irritates skin. And until it became completely hard, it is curing. I have been following doll artists blogs for years, everyone has used gloves, because of skin irritation. Amadiz studio's George claims having skin and nail (nails come off) problems because he sculpted without gloves. Other artists claim having ulcers from epoxy.

 

@Swampruler

Toxic and "skin irritant" (contact dermatitis) are two dramatically different things. One is local, and the other (toxic) causes lasting side effects (although it can be relegated to a certain organ or tissue).

Irritant is more like a variable sensitivity to certain chemicals which some people have and some don't. It's sort of like an allergy, but much less severe than that. (Allergy can cause anaphylaxis--constriction of the airway preventing breathing--and an irritation cannot.)

Has Amadiz Studio seen a physician with the concern that epoxy clay causes the removal of a fingernail, and has the physician confirmed it was due to a reaction to the chemical in the epoxy specifically? I'd imagine just about anything hardening on a nail and then attempting to rip it off might remove a fingernail. I've certainly done it with basically a bandaid and some heavy sanding taking off a pinkynail.

I have read that historically, epoxy hardeners may have been dangerous, but they aren't now. The ingredient list on both Apoxie Sculpt and Milliput (what they provide that isn't proprietary) reads like the ingredient list for firing clay (mostly silicates). I've read scarier safety data sheets for household cleaning supplies.

 

Before continuing the discussion, I would like to mention, that English is not my first language. So I might use not absolutely correct words or wording.

I agree, that I might have used word toxic wrongly.

I do not know about Milliput or Apoxie Sculpt, but the epoxy putties I have at home, have a hazard and danger signs on them, it is written about wearing gloves on them too.

"Irritant is more like a variable sensitivity to certain chemicals which some people have and some don't. It's sort of like an allergy, but much less severe than that. (Allergy can cause anaphylaxis--constriction of the airway preventing breathing--and an irritation cannot.)"

Chemical burns. I gave it a though, and think it has to do more with how long we have not cured epoxy putties on our skin. Some artist have epoxy on their skins for hours everyday. They have chemical, which makes putties soft, contact with their skin for a long time. Thus skin dryness, irritation and ulcers. This also would explain, why someone would not have noticeable damage to their skin after only using small amount of Milliput.

 

@Swampruler

Danger warnings are nice to have, but they are sometimes just added to cover the company's ass if they're sued.

According to this article, the irritation, itching, and ulcers (hives and blisters) can result from contact sensitivity, which for this brand (West Systems) occurs in less than 10% of people. Epoxy allergy can occur in less than 2%, and chemical burns in far fewer. So you are referring to a very small proportion of epoxy clay users.

Furthermore, the hardener (which is in very small proportions in the epoxy components already) seems to be only an issue with unmixed epoxy (the two components).

The SDSs are here for common epoxy clays/putties, so you can see for yourself:

Apoxie Sculpt

Milliput

Magic Sculpt

Magic Sculpt's SDS mentions gloves, as well as washing contacted skin. The only issue is they don't say why (and I have a hard time believing it's chemical burns, as the SDS is legally required (in the USA) to list all harmful effects of the substance so first responders and medical personnel can react accordingly).

Apoxie Sculpt specifically mentions the gloves are to prevent the clay from hardening on one's hands, as apparently removal of the hardened putty can be painful (I've had no problems).

It's not that I think this stuff doesn't happen, just that I have a hard time believing bad reactions are as common as some seem to imply.

 

So on some clays gloves are mentioned.

Clay makers, truly, may just want to save their businesses and take precautions.

But it is better to be careful, than to have unexplainable skin problems. Some use Mr. Clear without respirator, and have no problems. But we won't try this, will we?

You do make good points.

It might be, that those artists belonged to the alergic 2%, and other 98% are safe. It might be, that alergic ones were more verbal and non alergic ones just listened and wore gloves. It might be that some people simply badly mixed the putty.
It became a common sence to use gloves for everyone, because of skin problems of the few.
It is a common sence to use special gloves for epoxy in russian languaged community.

I do not wish to impose anyone to do that they do not want. If You can not use gloves with epoxy, that is great. But some learn, that they are sensitive to epoxy too late.

 

@Swampruler

My intention is not to discourage those who want to wear gloves from doing so but rather to present the facts according to the safety data sheets.

In this hobby especially, the word "toxic" gets thrown around too frequently to describe cases where it does not apply.

Resin gets called "poisonous" (when really all you could argue is that resin dust can toxically accumulate in the lungs--which has less to do with the damage wrought by the material and more that once in the lung, it does not degrade).

Disperse dyes (iDye Poly, Rit Dyemore, Pro Chemical and Dye PROsperse) are referred to as "toxic" or "caustic" when really they have an irritating odor.

Epoxy clays are unilaterally referred to as "toxic" when some (all three brands I have used) literally state "non-toxic" on the label, and actual cases pf epoxy irritation are few.

Sealants (MSC excluded because I can't find the SDS) are referred to as "poison" or "toxic," when again it's less that the chemical components of the sealant are hazardous (why they're safe when dried), and more that, again, they are difficult to clear from the lung once inhaled.

I don't mean to chew you out, it's more a general frustration with terminology.

I think it's better to present the WHY of how something is potentially hazardous because understanding what it can do to the body 1) helps you protect yourself from real danger and 2) informs you for how to get help (for example, perhaps if you have an extreme reaction to epoxy clay, your first move should be to the ER for an antihistamine/adrenaline/steroids [allergy] versus poison control).

Similarly, presenting the relative risk of doing something enables you to determine whether it's worth it to you. For example, there is some risk associated with eating fish, due to mercury contamination, or going outside (due to sun exposure causing skin cancer).

Calling something "toxic" (unless it's really going to kill you or your organs with small doses or repeated exposure) obscures the reality that risks aren't a binary, "safe" or "not safe," but rather a spectrum. (Anything in high enough doses can kill you--yay!)

 

For the ladoll and premiere, I usually buy a brick of each and combine them together to make my own clay. Doing it this way also means I can keep some pure of each if I need. As for Fando, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Bimong uses it for certain parts. His instagram is a treasure trove of information and watching his videos of him working is really helpful too.

 

He does? When I need to rewatch it.

 

Thanks so much, I didn't know Bimong had videos!
BTW Premix is basically a combo of LaDoll and Premiere-- saves you some mixing if you can find it. I think Dick Blick stocks it.

 

Ok then. I have removed the word 'toxic' from that comment. It, truly, is flung too easily around. The most important thing for me is that newbies would know about skin irritations.

 

For people in the USA, Hobby Lobby and Michaels both usually carry La Doll, and/or Premiere.

 

@Swampruler

Thanks--it's really nothing to do with you or epoxy clay specifically. I don't mean to discredit artists or common practice, just ask questions about the why (and perhaps the necessity or direction of the concern).

But I really do appreciate learning more about how people in a particular area in different places deal with their medium of choice.

 

Apologies for the length of this, but I feel this will be helpful for those who don't know where to start.

Well, I think a lot of it depends on if you're an 'add' or 'subtract' sculptor. I'm personally more of a 'subtract' sculptor, meaning that I tend to carve out my details rather than sculpting them on. If you're more of an 'add' sculptor, you can use a harder material, like Apoxy, Miliput and the like. If you're more of a 'subtract' sculptor, air-dry clays like LaDoll and Premier are great. I personally like Premier, it's fun to work with. There's also Sculpty, and other oven-bake clays, whatever you're most comfortable with.


Tools vary from person to person. I think it's good to get started with a small variety of tools and go from there. Your sculpting style can determine what sort of tools will be most useful to you. Just about anything with the right shape can work. Be creative!


Another thing to consider, is an armature. Straws are perfect for limbs, and there are many different sizes around. But figuring out what to use for the body and inside of the head is a lot tougher. Basically, you need something that you can remove later.

Cardboard, glued together with hot glue, can be used. However, I found that it didn't suit my 'subtractive' sculpting style, since I kept running into it while trying to carve out my details. I probably didn't do it right...

Tin Foil and Saran Wrap are common, and it isn't too hard to wad up a ball into the correct shape. However, removing them can be a pain, and they tend to come out in small pieces.

I've tried a fabric armature, which was interesting. I sewed up something with about the right shape, filled it with sand, and put a wire in to help it keep its shape. It soaked up a lot of moisture from the clay, which is something to consider, but this also meant that my initial core dried faster. Removal was pretty easy. All I had to do was to cut a small hole in the fabric, and let the sand pour out. Then I could pull out the fabric and wire. However, it does require a basic knowledge of sewing and pattern drafting.

Also, if your design needs something like a ball, don't be afraid to use things like wooden beads. You don't have to start from scratch.

I'm sure there are more types out there, but these are what I'm most familiar with.


I feel like a really good step is to draw out a 'blueprint' for your doll. Front, back and side views, to scale, on a piece of paper. This way you can compare your W.I.P. to your design, and make sure everything is going the way you want it to.

And one more thing. There are (at least) two different ways to do the body. One is to sculpt the body as a whole, and then cut apart the pieces to joint them. This can help you give your body a cohesive shape.
The other way is to sculpt each limb and body part individually. This means that you don't have to do any major cutting, but it may be harder to get the pieces to match up with one another.


Hope this helps!

 

A tip for making tin foil cores easier to remove:
Make the core the shape you’ll want the finished inside of the piece to have. Take the mold making and casting into consideration and make it a shape that can slide out through an opening without catching. When the shape in right, wrap another layer of foil on the outside of the core and smooth it out as much as you can.
When removing, simply slide the inner core out, so that the smooth outer layer is left in. That can then be removed relatively easy by just peeling it off, since it’s somewhat smooth and you’ll have some space to work since the bulk of the core is gone.
If the inner core can’t be removed without distorting it, this means the shape of the inside can cause problems when making and removing the mold. So it’s a nice early warning system.

Also, what materials you can use for core depends on what clay you use. Something that needs to be baked (all polymer clays and if you want to hurry the drying/setting time, air dry and epoxy clay) you need something you can put in an oven. Tin foil is good for this. Avoid anything that can melt or catch fire.

 

Thank you for the tips about the clays! It's really hard to find information about this kind of stuff, every time I've googled it I get a bunch of blogs that just suggest to "use whatever."

 

Haha yeah I bet they would since materials are part personal preference. Keep in mind you don't have to do the entire doll in only one material either. I am making my doll's feet in super sculpey right now but the rest of her body and head are done in my own premix (ladoll + premiere). Personally I think it's a great idea to try out different materials and see what you enjoy working with the most. Like another poster said, some people like to work subtractively, others additive, and some of us like a bit of both. : )

 

For new doll-makers, I thought that taking a look at this might help out.

How to make Noah's doll

It shows a step by step process of making a ball jointed doll.

 

Just to add to the discussion: I think if you can sculpt with gloves on, that's useful, but if not... I've used both apoxie and Miliput for craft purposes and not had an issue. I have eczema - contact dermatitis - but the epoxy clays don't seem to exacerbate it. Apoxie comes without too many warnings and I know from being a regular purchaser of art materials that some parts of the US are VERY strict about warnings (pretty much everything has a note from the state of California saying it'll kill you) so if it doesn't carry strong warnings then it is probably okay.

Miliput as sold in the UK has the generic 'you should wear gloves' but pretty much everything has that warning, including household cleaners and I've never known anyone that wears gloves for those.

That said, if you're concerned or sensitive to the clays, you should certainly wear gloves. Or sculpt in child-safe air dry clays like Paperclay or DAS. And MSC is a different proposition! Please, everyone, wear a respirator mask when spraying MSC!

 

The Noah tutorial is a good one. Here's another: Aimi-doll tutorial

You'll need Google translate, but the photos and diagrams are good.

 

I'm sure I'll be able to learn more when the Joint is actually merged, but I'm itching to know now!

Does anyone have recommendations/tips for primer? I have been working on a head (in Das clay) for a few months now, and I've gotten to the point where I can't really sand anything that well anymore. Das is rather coarse, so if I sand a little, a lot more than I actually want ends up coming off (and sometimes it peels off in layers, or chunks, particularly around the insides of the eyes and nostrils). I'm hoping a few primer layers will help with that. I don't have any yet though -- I wanted to get some Mr. Surfacer, but shipping from VolksUSA is super expensive. So I'd love to know, does anyone know of an alternative that might be less expensive, and maybe found at a hardware or craft store?

 

@AirimirOfGondor I think a lot of people use automotive primer, or primer from Krylon/Rustoleum... You just have to be careful if you're planning on casting your head that the primer you use won't react adversely with curing silicone rubber. You can also get Mr. Surfacer from hobby shops in the US (it's used a lot in the scale model hobby too). I got mine from a Gundam hobby shop.

Also, if we're recommending tutorials, @twigling 's "Zen and the Art of Articulating Dolls Using Ball Joints" was an absolutely indispensable reference for me when I was trying to figure out how to cut the joints for my doll. You can get a copy of it on her website here.

 

@mokarran Thank you! Sadly there are no hobby shops to be found in my area (just some Michaels/ACMoores), so I might have to suck it up and just spring for the shipping if I want Mr. Surfacer.
I'll look into Krylon/Rustoleum more -- I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find at least something at my Lowe's, so hopefully I can figure out how they might react with silicone!

Though I suppose I could use something else at first, and then finalize with Mr. Surfacer at the very end.

 

@AirimirOfGondor acrylic primers for cars work perfectly. The problem is, that non all are good enough. You would need to experiment.

I can not wait for Joint to finally merge to DOA.

 

@AirimirOfGondor Yeah I don't have any local hobby shops either, but online their shipping is usually a lot cheaper than VolksUSA I would probably recommend going the auto primer route, especially if it's your first time... I didn't really know what I was doing at first and ended up just blowing through like 8 cans of Mr. Surfacer >____<

 

I use Krylon primer (the gray is nice). It seemed to be OK with silicone. I'd like to try Mr. Surfacer sometime.

 

Harucasting says, that he has some problems with it. He cannot make clear silicone molds from dolls primed with Krylon. Harucasting has to make blue silicone molds for such dolls. There are no other problems with that primer.

 

I had used Rust-oleum's 2X Gray Primer as my primer. (it also comes in black and white colors) Which you can find at any hardware store. It's wet-sandable, and if you use a light touch and a fine grain sandpaper, It makes the surface very smooth.

I would suggest coating first with something like Citadel Purity Seal (if you can find s hobby-shop) and then apply again as a last coat.

I had to make do with this because I can't order in arasol cans into Canada.

 

That's interesting, thanks for that info! I will definitely try Mr. Surfacer then.

 

Thank you so much everyone! I'll have to see what I can find around here! I think I want to try the Rustoleum, but I checked the in-store options of my local Lowes and Walmart, but neither seem to have the right type. I guess I'll have to go look in person!

 

I bit the bullet and ordered some Premier and silicone sculpting tools... Gonna try my hand at sculpting this weekend!

 

I use car primer, but I'm no means an expert. I used opaque silicone, not the clear stuff, though. Had no reaction at all with my primer.

 

Always test your primer with the silicone you intend to use before spraying your original sculpt!

I use Hagmans Carosol Etch Primer (previously sold as "rostskyddsgrund 1k). I’ve used it with RTV 151, RTV 181 and EC 33. The last one is polycondensation, the others are the kind you mix a tiny amount of hardener into (polyaddition, I believe, I'm a bit unsure of the proper terms in English).

I cast a head with Haru last year and used MrSurfacer just to be sure, but I sent a sample af the Etch Primer along for future reference and they gave it the ok with their silicone.
I did not like MrSurfacer. It's insanely expensive compared to the Etch Primer and took several layer just to cover the surface. It left a grainy surface that was hard to sand smooth without sanding straight through.

I have also tried "Biltema Primer För Akrylfärg" with the EC33 silicone and it worked fine. I'm sure there are plenty of other good options out there from local brands all over the world. But you do have to test it!
Also, remember that just because a primer works with one type of silicone does not mean it works with all.

You guys who work in paper clay, have you tried spraying a sanding base before getting to the primer stage? I have been toying with the idea to make a 1:4 scale game-type orch and he will be massive, so paper clay will probably be the way to go to keep costs down. But I'm a bit spoiled from usually working with polymer where a smooth surface is very easy to achieve.
I'm thinking a sanding base could help seal the surface and make it easier to wet sand and to get rid of the fuzziness that is easy to get when sanding paper clay.

 

On small detailed areas (ears, nostrils, tear ducts). I paint on Mr Surfacer 1000 rather than spraying, then sand. I find this allows for better control. Heard that Model Master is a good alternative too, but have not personally tried it.

 

I have used gesso as a base. It works pretty well, but I'm still working out the bugs (it tends to fill in detail). Also, Premier is not as fuzzy as some of the other types of paperclay.

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll probably use polymer clay for face, hands and feet, simply because I'm more used to working in that. So small details will hopefully not be too much of a problem.

That is good to know. Although, it will probably be home made paper clay that I use.
I have heard som mixed opinions on gesso. Some find it to be very slow drying and tough to sand. But perhaps there are many types?

 

Personally I only tried gesso (Liquitex) once and hated it. Perhaps a different brand would work better, but in this case it was weirdly rubbery to sand and would not sand smooth.

 

I was using wet/dry sandpaper, maybe that was the difference.

 

I use a technique of mixing a loose paperclay slip (watery clay) brushing it over, sanding, repeat. I've got super smooth surfaces this way. Really, really smooth!

 

Be careful when spraying your dolls with primer, and be very careful about what kind of clay you use when you make a mold. Anything with sulfur, or latex (which contains sulfur from the vulcanization process) can prevent your silicone from curing. So using latex gloves is a no-no, and so is using regular Plasticine to build your molds with. There's something called 'water clay' that's perfect, and you can re-use it many times. I bought two blocks, and have yet to touch the second block.

Speaking of mold-making, there are a few different ways you can build your mold boxes. Cardboard and plastic with hot glue, toilet paper rolls... but my personal favourite is good old fashioned LEGO! The two by four size bricks, and a base plate. It's easy to build up mold boxes, deconstruct them, and reconstruct them if needed. Just invest in some once, and you should be set. BUT an important thing to note, is that you'll need to seal the vertical edges with some clay, or else your silicone is going to seep out between those tiny cracks. And nobody wants that!

 

Legos are a lifesaver, especcially if you cast a lot of smaller stuff with complex shapes!

When makin two part molds I usually use a professional modelling clay like Chavant, or similar, that is sulphur free. A lot of people uses WED clay too, but that dries out over time while modelling clay can be used much longer.