The Dollshe side of the Dollshe/Dollmore copy issue *translated statement page 27*

well i was asked i i wanted the new body supposedly abit more meattier.... lol but i like the less muscle one u know well i do intend to take him and the spare hound body apart and insecpt inch to inch... i promise there wun be any biased reviews... well that being said i wonder how long hell take to come home i have decided to ask someone to mod his faceup afer i am done~~~~

but yeah i like that banner??

 

Rukawagf, you're all but too awesome for providing these translations.

I know people are a bit annoyed about dollmore kind of avoiding the answers and things, but to them I can see how they are getting annoyed with this becoming such a public thing. They are really doing what is logically best for their company by trying to keep things out of the press. It does not neccesarily mean that they are hiding anything, but it's just not professional (which is how they are trying to hold themselves) if they were to actually take the pictures themselves and post them (copy or not) or even to make a public appology about it if it is, if they are going to court over the ordeal.

 

@babytarragon: is it from Blue?

Anyways... I'm on the side of if a doll owner doesn't want to open up their doll for people, that is their decision. I know if someone pointed a finger at Riku and claimed the MNF mold a rip off of some other mold I wouldn't take him apart for their sake...

 

Someone referenced this pic again:
.

Earlier, I'd noticed the difference between the elbow joints from this angle. But it's been a long day - now I keep thinking about the mention of the Hound "slouch" - and all I keep thinking is: If you put a big ol' set of boobies on either of those chests, what you'd have is that "spring-loaded" Elfdoll Rainy girl back arch --

 

lol true ah well i dun think dollmore is being nice entire calling someone a cyber terror.... ROFL but yeah i dun think dollshe has no wrong in telling ppl what he thinks [apparently we might have to wait abit longer for the new dollshe dolls ]

oh well court huh, Ruw can we send u to korea as a internation dollfie press reporter? lol

 

lol. i'd be very honored XD

but i guess that'd be pretty impossible XD sad....

well if anyone know of any article or news written in korean, i'm more the happy to (always) to translate it into English :P

Also Sabriell is waiting for Mr.Dollshe's responce, so i'll be translating that soon...... I'm sorta hoping it's not tooooooo long.... but i have a baaaad feeling it'll be just has long and diffricult lol


Also, I'll take this time to thank everyone who have thanked me, since it encouraged me to continue translating no matter what happens.

 

well Dollmore Vs Dollshe

final showdown : court...

the rest of us juz sit back and well pray nuthing bad will happen.... ehehehehe marco better come home fast~~~~ i wish to molest him [*evil cackles*]

 

I third that.

Thanks alot Rukawagf for the translations, hugs ^_^

 

This is one of the most interesting threads I have ever read. I am probably late to add my comment, but I will do so anyway, because I really want to. I don't support either of these two companies, meaning I am not an owner of a Hound nor a Kyle, but I like both dolls and I dream that some days I might be able to get one.

As I was looking to the comparison shots that I think Mr. Dollshe has posted, I noticed the hads especially. They drew my attention because Kyle's hands look that they simply are a bigger version of the hound hands, but on a second more detailed look, I finally understood why they drew my attention. They are just like Achilleas' hands (Achilleas is an ex of mine with long lovely fingures and beautifull hands etc etc) OMG Achilleas copied the hound hands :p The second thing I noticed was the lines in the palm. Then I looked my palm and I have the same lines too!!! Have I copied the hound' s hands or the hounds have copied mine!! I know this example sounds very stupid, but these dolls are made to resamble humans and you can't make then in many diffrent ways. Most human hands have lines like those on their palms so they made the palm like that and many men have nice long fingers, so they made the fingers like that.

After that, I saw the dollmore model doll legs on a hound torso. They fit there very nice.. aren't they? Haven't we all searched for alternative bodies or heads for our hybric dolls?? Should companies start sueing each other because the resin colour matches or the head hole or the neck circumastances are the same? Besides both dolls have almost the same dimentions, so it's very natural that the legs or other parts would be interchangable.

I also saw the markings on the inside of the two bodies. Now this is a dead give away, but why would someone who wants to copy something and then sell it, would let something like that happen! Personally if I would to copy something and claim it as my own, I would try to erase all the evidence that show I am a copy cutter. Leaving evidence like that is stupid. Maybe there is something there that while creating both dolls left a mark. I don't know that for sure.

Finally the chest and torso. They are very very similar in both dolls, with the exception that hounds have a 3 pieces body vs Kyle who has a 2 pieces body. Someone can say that Dollmore just did this to cover the fact that they copied the hound body. Perphaps it is true. Why Dollmore picked a desing for their 70cm dolls, that looks so similar to the other and only line of 70cm male dolls. They could have done it so diffrently if they wished! They could have made a 70 cm torso that resambles the delf engineering!! And after that the CP delf company could have started arguing with them! Once again I am trying to say that all the dolls are quite simiral to each other and there aren't many ways a doll can't be made. In fact there are huge similarities in many dolls and if someone wants to really create an original and diffrent bjd he should make something like Triangle Joined dolls...with allien faces and goat legs.

The last thing I want to point out myself, too, is that Mr Dollshe might have choses pictures that speak to hnis favor and also he migh have chose his words very carefully. It would be great if there was something similar done by Dollmore ,too , so that we could compare. This however, has been mention before.

I think I am done here. Once again I would like to mention that I own none of the dolls mentioned above and I am not a devoted fan of the companies mentioned above. I like both dolls equally. What I just said and did is commonly known as the "devil's lawyer"

 

Yes, thank you SO much for the translations, Rukawagf~! ^____^

 

Kittyaz, this is probably the most rational and logical post in this whole thread, and I thank you for making it.

My husband who is both a mechanical as well as electrical engineer, and has spent a great many years working with all manner of how an item is put together and functions, has studied the shots that Dollshe presented, and he finds that they clearly illustrate the differences between the dolls. Granted, he is NOT a doll sculptor, but his eye is well trained, and his measurement and math skills are unquestionable. His response to the presentation by Dollshe was to print out both sets of pictures, scale them exactly and take measurements. Though he agrees both torso's have pitting, his measurements show that they are not identical pits in size,and are not, even in the same position within the torso. Most of you will throw out any credibility he might have, because he is not a doll sculptor, but I honestly believe that having non-involved, yet knowledgeable people examine both dolls, is really the way to put this all to rest. I said this before, but I wish BOTH Dollshe and Dollmore would agree to have an outside party examine, photograph and determine the actual facts here.

I have been offline today, but read through fairly quickly and must address a couple other things.

There was an implication (forgive me, I forget who mentioned it) that Pam was in some sort of "suspicious" collusion with Dollmore. That is strictly unwarrented conjecture.
Pam shot those comparison pics as ANY owner would. How many comparison threads have we seen on all types of dolls in our own gallery? She was (in good faith, much like Dollmore shared Kyle with Dollshe by giving him one) simply comparing and sharing her new doll with us. A few days later, when this whole mess started to come out, Dollmore simply asked her if they could link to her comparison shots. If that's some sort of secret collusion, so be it, but that's all there is to it.

Her unwillingness to take her Kyle apart at this point is frankly, she'd rather just enjoy her new doll (that she has had less than a week), then get caught up in all this hostility and angst. I mean really, can you blame her?

As to the notion that Dollmore did not address the internal pitting, I think Eun Young adressed this quite well with this statement:
"Our sculptor have used circular neck joint(?) when making the joints, and these balls are generally standard size of 2mm. Therefor, every joints that are to be fitted with a ball joint will be interchangeable with another limb with a joint ball since they all have a standard size.
Currently, if you compare the 60cm and 40cm BJD's ball jointed joints, though each company has different designs and mobility power, each ball size is similar in size and the height and "age it is based on" is similar so all body, neck, hand, arm, legs, feet etc so you can easily see that they all can be interchangeable.
And this is the reason why most dolls can share the dollfie clothes, shoes and wigs.
And about the inside of the doll, during the process of making this doll (most sculpors do not feel the necessary to smoothened the inside) (translator's note: the ( __) is not written but it is implied) , we did not smooth the inside, so most dolls have defects underneath, but because of how the mold is shaped and how the body porportions are similar so it is made in a similar way, and similar sculpi/clay was used so at the similar areas, it'll have similar defects. "

Keep in mind, different languages present information in different ways. Styles of writing are different, and translation from language to language is not as exact, in terms of understanding as we might like.

I also must remind everyone that in a legal dispute, people are advised to address ONLY certain things and in certain ways. They are advised to be careful what and how they say things until a case is heard in mediation or trial.

Lastly (for this post anyway), I am NOT on EITHER side. I think that so much of the problem here, is that people are becoming so impassioned before all the REAL facts are on the table. I feel sorry for Kim IF his sculpt has indeed been pirated ( I personally am not yet convinced of that, but I have an open mind and will trust the facts and that the truth will come out), AND I feel sorry that Dollmore is being subjected to such slander, before a case, or actual evidence has been heard and determined.

I feel sad and sorry for the whole ugly situation, and hope that all of us can quit judgeing either side so harshly until we have ALL the facts. And I mean facts, not this "he said she said" stuff.

 

hmmm honestly i don't think my credibility is an issue here. but i'll write it for everyone's information anyway

And as gayle said, yes when you translate one language to another, you do lose a lot of meanings. Especially from Western to Eastern and vice versa.

That being said, I'd like to say who I am in case people do not know me.

I'm legal assistant at my day job. Meaning I'm a secretary at a law firm.
My NIGHT job however, I'm translator and Assistant Editor of Ice Kunion. They are better known in Korea as Shi-Gong-Sa Publishing Company. It's one of the four biggest publishing Company in Korea. Also, at my law firm I translate for my lawyers every day. So I am used to translating on the spot, as well as translating in writing while taking my time.

Though I admit, a lot of meanings may have lost, I did my best to make this translation more "literal" than "loose" as in, if she said the word, "similar" i have used exactly that. Normally I play around with words to make them flow better, but that's when Im translating a literature work. THIS is not. So I decided to forget trying to make the grammar "flow" better but make it more "literal" It really took me a long time because I had to make it soooo literal, trying to figure out WHAT the writer origionally intended to say.

Also, i just found out DOA user: Shoofy is Korean. She can definetly take over the job if necessary or even give second opinion about my translations if it's not done to everyone's satisfactory.



And other issues Gayle addressed, I'm not gonna respond since it really doesn't have anything to do with me right now ^-^;;;;


EDIT: Oh yeah and one thing. Gayle is SOOO correct. we ALL should be proud and honored that dollmore wants to use PamSD's shots. i mean she took those pics BEFORE this mess. it was a comparison shot done because so many ppl wanted to know. I DO NOT think PamSD is conspiring with dollmore in anyway and it is VERY ridiculous to think so considering she took those pictures before this problem was addressed on DOA :P


EDIT 2:
I graduated college with History and English Literature major if that helps me more XD (wow it's becoming a resume~~~ )

 

See, Gayle, if I had a Kyle, I'd be eager to proof that Dollshe is wrong. We know it is perfectly within her right not to take pictures for us. But we also have the right to wonder if it might be bacause she wants to hide something.
Frankly, courts take awhile, and having owner pictures is a much easier way to settle any disputes.

As for your husband, there are artists here who are just as trained as he is and have said the opposite. But, it does not take a "trained" eye to see the similarities and differences in the pictures. But, I want to know where you see the differences, specifically. (And by that I don't mean the head and torso)

Until then, we'll continue to keep up to date with the awsome translations of Rukawagf.

 

There is one issue that has come up in this thread multiple times that has bothered me a great deal.

A shocking number of people seem to be saying that something cannot be considered a "copy" unless it looks exactly like the source material. In other words, some people are saying that yes, Dollmore may have used Hound as a base, but if they did it doesn't matter, because Dollmore went on to reshape parts of that base. By this standard, such alterations make the resulting doll "their own work."

This bothers me. A lot. I am a teacher, and I struggle every day to help kids understand the difference between doing their own work and taking shortcuts built on the labor of others. I would never allow a child to "write" a paper by copying someone else's essay and then altering words and phrases to "make it their own." If using bits of someone's else's work is unavoidable -- for example, when doing a research paper about a poem, in which you obviously must incorporate bits of the poem -- the borrowed portions must be credited. And one does not just footnote direct quotes -- one even footnotes borrowed ideas! Failing to do so constitutes plagiarism, and will get you booted from most high schools and colleges faster than you can say the word immoral.

It's not just in the academic world that this sort of thing matters. Try pulling this "shortcut" stunt in most business settings and it will get you fired. If I teach my students it's OK to create works in that manner, I am setting them up for future failure.

It disheartens me to see anyone in a hobby as artistic and unique as this one supporting the idea that it is OK to claim sole credit for a work that has been based in part on someone else's.

I'm not saying that the verdict is in on Kyle. But please, those of you trying to defend Dollmore, try to find better ground than "the dolls look different now" at various points in the mold. In the end, that is not the point. The point is how the doll was created and credited -- not the look.

 

Is it from the U2 song "One"?

I've been following this thread with interest, and right now am in the middle. I want to see what will happen if this does go to court, since then an objective third party would be examining all the evidence. It's very sad that this whole thing has happened though, and I hope that things get worked out.

 

I think that if those marks do exist inside Kyle, there are going to be some factory workers getting real busy with some sandpaper before any more Kyles are shipped out.

 

I know this is sort of late to jump in on this, but I'd just like to clarify that dollmore has used a V1.2 Hound in their comparison pics. They are Hounds with the broader chest of the v.2s, but with the ankle/wrist caps and the lack of a shoulder hole that the v.1s have. They where dolls that where made around October last year, before they started out with the V.2 bodies. I can take pics if anyone needs it, as I have one.

The V.2 Hounds have shoulder holes very similar to that of Kyle.

I won't bother stating my opinion, as I guess theres already been enough of that.

 

A couple of people have mentioned this shot posted by Dollmore;


and how the joints must actually different, because in the above image Kyle's joint appears narrower than the Hound's. But in the picture Kyle's arm is actually turned at a different angle to the Hound's. I took pictures of my own Hound's arm at both angles and when turned, his joint is almost identicle to Kyle's in the image.
Here are my pics:


He's a Hound v2 ordered in September 2006, btw.

 

Rukawagf: Thank you so much for translating!! XD I guess unless you really look at the prints on the inside closely, it's hard to tell for sure.

The way I've understood dolls to be made has been that it's first sculpted in clay and then the inside is hollowed out then it's put through molding and casting in resin. So the way the patterns on the inside goes is kind of like a finger print, because even if all dolls have similar flaws, I think it's highly improbable -if not downright impossible -for the markings on the inside where they hollowed out the clay to look exactly the same. That can only happen if they cast from the same mold of a doll.

So if Dollshe could take Dollmore to court and get some kind of expert to take a really close look and identify the marks, they could probably say for sure if Dollmore's Kyle is a copy of Dollshe's Hound.

I just tried to get a look at the markings inside my own Hound, but I've sueded him and without taking him apart entirely, I can't get to what I want... >.>;;;

 

Anyone actually know anything about when the court case is going to take place?

 

As a legal assistant as my job, I can tell you that it normally takes 2 years to get to court. ^^;;;

normally.

it can be settled faster at times though. I think one of the fastest would be 2 months - 6 months.

the reason is mostly because the lawyers must gather information, find experts, INTERVIEW experts, and because jury would find it boring if an expert gets on the court and talk about things they do NOT understand, a lot of the times, expert talks are written/recorded or video taped recorded to be used in court.

Also they need EXACT or CLOSE estimate of profit loss and property damage etc. measuring that will take a long time seeing how much damage Dollmore took in the cyber world

also (estimate of 20-30) questions will be asked to the plaintiff and defendant, in this case, Mr. Dollshe and Dollmore Rep. etc. all files and facts gathered must be sent back and forth so everyone has the same facts so they can all think of defensive answers for any attacking questions.

oh. and you need to file papers to court as to which witnesses they are brining, which facts and evidence they are bringing, etc etc etc

the legal process takes a loooooooong time.

 

O.O

I hope this gets resolved quickly, they are both beautiful dolls

I am a dollshe fan, and do hope Kim Ki Yong wins the fight for his beautiful creations

I hope that the dollmore doll is not taken from the market though, he is beautiful as well.

 

Now I could be totally off base, as I'm not sure how simplfied the casting illustrations are.

But, I've done bronze casting, where you set up a gating system to pour in bronze and let out air. You usually attach these at reasonably hidden places so you have less work grinding them off.

To me, that one big blob looks like the remains of a gating system, and it would make sense to put it in a similar place on a doll of a similar size, especially if the people doing the casting had similar training.

I have no idea about the other bumps...but also from the bronze experience, I have some bronze castings that still have my fingerprints from the orginal wax/clay originals...so maybe we should see if there are any reconizable fingerprints in the doll? If a Kyle had one of Mr. Dollshe's actuall fingerprints that would kind of end the argument right there.

Otherwise I have no opinion. I like both of the dolls, and I'm too poor to afford either of them either. (But now we know a Hound head would fit...I remember someone asking about that)

 

Ow, they do look a lot like now that they're side by side. :/ I never would have even thought so without these pictures. Too bad, because I was thinking that K-doll body for a doll of mine, I would originally have gone with a dollshe body, but the resin doesn't match.
Oh well, I'll go on ahead and save my pennies for my Saint then. :3
I hope everything turns out nicely.

 

It seems like normally the gates for BJD are external and located along the seams. Even if they were artifacts from the sprues (channels where the resin was poured), they wouldn't all be the same shape because different workers finishing the dolls would have snipped them off at different lengths and sanded them differently.

 

I've just got to weigh in on this, though I don't know what good any of this speculation really does. It seems people have taken three sides--1. Kyle is a copy and the pictures prove it. 2. Kyle is different and the pictures prove it. 3. They like both dolls and don't care and won't unless there is a court case with an outcome.

I have looked at all the photos and, for myself, the dolls look quite different from each others, so I fall in category 2.

All dolls are made to represent a human figure and thus have numerous qualities in common. All BJDs have additional commonalities in order to qualify as a BJD--resin, stringing, etc.

Certainly if a Dollshe doll was used as a mold, the culprits know and one might guess that will eventually come out. If they sculpted their own mold, it seems a shame that their reputation is being tarnished in this way. As Dollmore has made other dolls, including model dolls, in the past, it mystifies me that they would have cast from another company's doll, especially when they were capable of making such extensive changes in knee and elbow joints, torso, size of neck, and so on. Meanwhile, I believe in innocent until proven guilty, though proving a case like this might be very difficult. Perhaps Dollshe can come up with the original sculpt and mold!

 

Having looked at all the photos, honestly the only ones that make me suspect are the interior photos. I have a Model girl Ipsae, and Kyle's body looks FAR more like hers than the dollshe boys, in my opinion. I'd love to see comparison shots involving the girls, just so we could all see how similar they actually are.

But I love Kyle, and I love the dollshe boys. And I'm trying really hard to think of a way to grow a money tree so i can buy all of them. ^_~

 

Kyle's body looks far more like a Model girls body than a Hounds for one simple reason IT IS. The body is engineered exactly on the same order as the girls, right down to the locking center point on the chest joint. The collarbones are the same as the Model girls, the legs are the same, the arm structure, everything about him is Model design, not Hound design. He poses like the Model girls, not like a Hound as well. Again, I really wish everyone could handle both dolls to see this for yourself.

Unfortunately, due to loyalties and high emotion, I am sure that some people will stand firm on their resolve that this is a copy, even if the courts rule otherwise.

Both companies reputations will be left with some measure of damage, regardless of the outcome. I understand that Kim is upset, but if he would have simply followed legal proceedings without bringing this all so agressively into the public eye, it might have had a chance to get resolved before so much damage was done. Kim may not realize this, but his actions here have hurt his own reputation among some collectors as well. As I said before, no one wins here and everyone gets hurt.

It's a HUGE shame. I say that alot in this thread, but it's my overiding feeling about this whole mess.

 

How many threads on this forum are about people being mean to someone's doll?

I have to admit, if I were in Pam's place....just getting my beautiful doll; being thrilled with it; showing it others on this site; being willing to take nude shots and comparison shots; and answering all sorts of questions..... I would NOT be willing to let people pick him apart. How can anyone blame her for not letting this go on?

I guess we have all forgotten the Duke Rape Case! What has this got to do with the Dollmore/Dollshe problem? Well, a jump to conclusion for one thing.

I can't help but feel this is wrong....why can't we let the Doll companies figure this out? Why do we feel compelled to jump to quick answers? And most of all why are we all experts in the art of mold making and casting? If we are expert mold makers; then why are we all whining that we don't have the cold hard cash for dolls? Mold makers get paid quite well....especially it they are good at what they do.

I refuse to take sides in this. Someone once told me....and I hope she's reading this....."Dolls are not to fight over, they are made to make people happy." Truer words were never spoken....

 

The fact that Mr. Dollshe is bringing the dolls to fairs puts to rest some of my qualms about the pictures, but I still would like to believe that Dollmore wouldn't do that. You can say I'm delusional if you'd like but that won't sway my belief.

 

Oriscany, no one has said they were expert doll makers. =/ People have said that they were artists, Lizzard is a teacher, and Gayle mentioned her husband as an electrical expert or something non art/doll related. But other then that, people have been stating their opinions.

As for quick answers- that's because owner pictures of Kyle would shut alot of people up =) that would settle things for them. But, since Pam doesn't want to take pictures, and Dollmore certainly wouldn't take inside pictures, we are only left with Dollshe's pictures.

I'm not sure about you, but I don't see a fight here, I see discussion, debate, interest.

 

kokoryta....I would hope Gayle would know I didn't mean her husband. I know he's an engineer and i have respect for his observations.

 

hm..I don't see why people feel that everyone is taking sides.

Personally I see most people here observing the situation and speculating, rather than having a sort of "I like side A, so can't like/consider/respect side B" attitude.

There's no need to form an allegiance or anything, whether or not you think it's a copy. You can think he's a copy but you don't have to hate Dollmore for it...Hating Dollmore doesn't do anything to help Dollshe, and vice versa, you don't have to think Mr Dollshe is a nut if you are a Dollmore fan!

That's like wasted energy if you do...

 

Is anyone else in this thread expecting a Kyle that was shipped before this fiasco started? Perhaps we can get them to take pictures for us since they would have shipped before Dollmore could have sanded down or eliminated their damning inner bumps.

Unfortunatly I'm pretty sure anything shipped after this debacle started will have evidense removed if it ever existed >.>

 

I think this was mentioned WAY back, but someone said that the Hound hands were one piece and Kyle hands were two.

I have comparison shots of all Dollshe hands on my Bermann faq.



Here are the comparison shots of Kyle's hands for ref.

http://www.thedollpage.com/photopost/data/5616/295307_0733k.JPG
http://www.thedollpage.com/photopost/data/5616/295307_0729k.JPG
http://www.thedollpage.com/photopost/data/5616/295307_0731k.JPG

Hopefully this answers WHOMEVER'S question about the hands. Sorry if this seems off now. I think it was about 4 pages back. Teaches me for being off line for a day, huh?

 

I'm also not sure why people are feeling the need to take sides.
No matter what the evidence says on this one, I do not think that ALL of dollmore needs to go down for this mistake. I can say with almost 100% certainty that my dollmore kid is a dollmore original... and there are plenty of originals beyond that as well. ^_^

I think I fall into the middle category. I think the debate is an interesting one, but I also would like to let the whole thing get settled in court. Copy or no copy doesn't really matter as much at this point, simply because everyone will always have their own opinions. So I can just have my own thoughts on the matter, and let it flow from there ^^

That being said, Seeing all these "dollmore vs. Dollshe" type banners...and hearing about personal boycotts of the entire dollmore site once this is over regardless of what happens, furious live journal posts, ...those things are a concern to me. This is the kind of stuff that is going to create a lot of anger between users.

Now I also might sound like some dollmore fan in this post, and that I am only saying these things to ensure the good name of my favorite company. But I can guarantee that I enjoy certain aspects of both companies in question. (Hell, lots of other companies too for that matter) Picking favorites here is not something I could do. I also never intend to purchase a model doll Kyle, It's just not the kind of doll I would get I guess.

My real worry here is of an eventaul internal dollmore (or even dollshe) blacklisting between members, based on the fact that clear "sides" have started to form. However, I will also say that this debate for the most part has been informative discussion, and people are taking this in a fairly orderly fashion as far as this site is concerned. ^__^

EDIT: Because I never make much sense XD

 

It's rather premature for anyone to be talking about a Dollmore ban, particularly as the mods have stated repeatedly that they're not even considering such a move at this stage (and likewise with the DollZone controversy as well). The ForeverDoll ban was only brought in after legal action against ForeverDoll was settled in Volks' favour.

It really is jumping the gun for so many people to repeatedly say "oh, I hope Dollmore won't be banned here!" when the mods have equally repeated that it wasn't even under consideration right now, and they - like the rest of us - are waiting to hear the outcome of the now-pending legal action between Dollmore and Dollshe, which could take anywhere from 6 months to 2 years to resolve.

People are perfectly at liberty to make their own decisions as to how they stand on the issue; however mob rule is not how policy has ever been decided on DoA, and long may that be the case! So can we please have an end to speculation on banning until such time as the mods make an official announcement? All this speculation achieves is to alienate and worry those who already own Dollmore dolls.

This whole furor is over ONE model of Dollmore doll - the Model-M boy, Kyle. At no point has any aspersion been cast on any other Dollmore model.

 

Woops..XD Just realized that I really didn't keep that one point clear in my post. I also know there will be no actual dollmore ban. I have read the mods post as well, and I know that a ban is defiantly no where in the future. I am actually not worried about a true actual banning of dollmore dolls. ^__^

I was thinking that if sides are being taken, that there is an increased likelihood of an internal blacklisting between members, based on the fact that they own a dollmore doll. Which I do happen to think is a ridiculous action, no matter what anyone’s position is on the matter. It’s no ones fault on DOA that any of this happened, and I am worried about some members taking the fight against people that have nothing to do with it. I can go edit that "ban" phrase out of my post.

 

I still say, looking at this thread, that if I had a Kyle, no way would I open him up and take pictures for the hostile crowd. And I think Dollmore have probably been rather naughty.

 

I've been following this thread from the start and can no longer resist sticking my two penneth in ('m surprised I lasted this long... Lol.)

Personally I'm sceptical about Kyle being a copy. Why would Dollmore want to risk their reputation and possibly large amounts of cash when they're perfectly capable of sculpting their own dolls? I meand, the differences between the Hound and Kyle are subtle rather than major (which is to be expected with two dolls of the same height and build), but they are there.

"we did not smooth the inside, so most dolls have defects underneath, but because of how the mold is shaped and how the body porportions are similar so it is made in a similar way, and similar sculpi/clay was used so at the similar areas, it'll have similar defects."
As crazy as the explanation sounds - I'm more inclined to believe that just 'cos it's less mad than them effectively sabotaging their own business!

Either way, Dollmore will probably look the more respectable in court because of the personal harrassment Miss Eun-Young (alledgedly) received - it's just totally unprofessional.

 

Exactly.

But, as some had mentioned in the thread. Dollmore had pushed back the release of the Model Boy for some time. The theory being that they were having trouble comming up with a model of their own and thus used Dollshe as a springboard for their designs.

 

I would. Curiosity would drive me mad if I didn't and I'd be itching to share my findings whether they be for or against Dollmore.

 

I didn't say that Dollshe don't believe it's a copy. Just that it seems to me unlikely it is. Even if they were struggling to come up with a body it's just such a stupid and dangerous thing for a well established company like Dollmore to do.

 

to be fair, I haven't been into BJDs for that long but I've seen the release date of many dolls I've been intrested in pushed back

E.G. the DiM "Memory" 68cm boy who was suposed to be out before the end of the year but is now planned for later

I don't think people should put too much stock into rumours

 

Hmm. Is that just what people want the doll's owners to do to satisfy their own curiosity? Is that what you would really do if people were rather demanding you take your doll apart so they can check out his innards left right and centre. It's easy to say it is, but if that was really your brand new doll, your boy....I just think there is a lot of hostility being directed at Dollmore and indirectly at the doll himself right now, and it is counterproductive to cooperation. Initially, owners of Kyle were feeling cooperative; now that is not the case. If there was less hostility, maybe. But there isn't.

 

let's just say a few ppl would take pictures, and some people wouldn't and let's leave it at that?

i mean it's personality issue here, a few ppl are more shy, some more agressive, some ppl love challenges, some ppl hate competition etc.

 

When I found out my little Forever Doll Matsu was a direct copy of Volks, I didn't hide him away or refuse to take photos for people that wanted to see for themselves.

 

*nod* I guess that's true. I am speaking I guess for myself. I don't like competions or rather aggressive challenging. It puts me on the defensive naturally; and I don't even own a Kyle! I do own a gorgeous Hound however , and damn straight I am not dissecting Zach for anything!

 

I'm very non-confrontational, but I'm more curious XD I'd simply have to know.

I think some people are also adverse to disassembling their dolls simply because they're uncomfortable doing so in any situation. For me, its no big deal as I do it all the time.

 

Speaking as a mod for a moment: Can we please leave off speculating why Kyle owners may choose not to photograph their dolls' guts? I imagine that these people are already feeling a little pressured and alienated sheerly by owning one of these dolls, we don't need to bring further attention to them. If they have chosen not to photograph their dolls, there's really nothing anyone can do about it... and talking about what we as individuals would do in their place really doesn't contribute anything to the discussion.

 

Whether that was spoken as a mod or not, I am glad someone at least spoke out with that.

 

Not only that, PamSD is the ONLY one at the moment that has her kyle in den of angels. Everyone else is still waiting.
But yes, let the owners of kyle decide for themselves if they wanted to post pictures or not.

 

I was merely stating that I would.

I apologize, though the owners shouldn't feel humiliated. It was an honest purchase on their parts. Its not like they knew this would happen.

 

Could you give us some documented details of this?

 

Even if I'm not a mod I agree wholeheartly with this. As well as I find it rude to elaborate on subjects you aren't privy to. I also agree that a lot of people here are taking this way too personally. Mr Dollshe is a capable man, I'm sure he's able to expose his case to court. And I am sure Dollmore is also ready to defend themselves. The rest is just speculation...

 

I agree... some details would help us here.