The Dollshe side of the Dollshe/Dollmore copy issue *translated statement page 27*

Just wanted to chime in and thank Rukawagf for taking so much time to do all this translating. It's super appreciated, I am sure, by all of us who are following this.

 

It's actually not possible. I don't "condemn" Dollmore for anything... except their eyes I bought and am quite unhappy with. >.O That's completely OT though. Anyway, as far as "proof" of their alleged copying, the pictures are pretty much it for me, given they are true to life of course.

Flaw marks in sculpture casting are pretty much like fingerprints, and it is sooooooo incredibly easy to modify something and then recast it, which would allow for what differences there are between Hound and the Model Kyle bodies.

Last year a friend of mine in my 3D class brought in a lawn gnome. Even just adding clay to it made the finished product look quite different from the original, even though they were primarily the same object. There was flaws in the silicone copy however, distinct flaws that came out in every copy he made. He decided to recast the gome, and when he did completely different flaws appeared in the silicone casting.

I don't offer this as 100% proof or anything, just a bit of my own personal experience when it comes to sculpting and casting replicas of an object. Don't ask, sometimes I just feel the need to add my two cents.

 

Before I make this point, I would like to stress that I'm not accusing Mr. Dollshe of doing any such thing...

BUT it would be so, so easy to either take pictures of two hounds or manipulate the pictures in photoshop to come up with two dolls and the same marking. We have established that that marking is indeed inside hound dolls. But at the moment we have no way of knowing if the same marking is inside Kyle dolls because we have no owner photos. I, personally, like to believe people are innocent and while in this case it seems like someone is indeed guilty of something I would like to believe that dollmore would not make a copy and dollshe would not manipulate their photos.

Again, I'm not accusing dollshe or dollmore, just making a point that it would be so easy to manipulate the pictures so that they don't portray the exact truth. In fact, it would be just as easy for dollmore to make a copy of a dollshe doll and only mod the outside.

 

I really think Mr. Dollshe has a right to be disturbed and angry. the bumps and concaves on the inside of the parts are deffinitly proof. He knows where they are from and how the marks happened, and if an artist knows and remembers anything it's their mistakes!

The hound body is unmistakable, especially those hyper angular shoulders. The pictures are alarming. It makes me as say as when I looked at the DZ Origingality thread. So the only thing we can to try to make good ethical decisions as consumers.

 

Except that would be a rather silly thing to do if he knows members here actually do own Kyle and can easily verify what he is saying if they wish. That would only make him look really bad, not to mention open him up to a libel suit (if such laws exist in Korea). I'm just really skeptical he would do such a thing.

As for me, it would be nice to have extra verification from a Kyle owner but these pics are enough. To me the dolls are substantially similar and the marks inside are proof of copying. I've always and will always be a strong proponent of artist's rights and protecting copyrighted works. I just cannot, in good conscience, support a company I believe is violating another's copyright. I need no court to tell me what is morally wrong. Though quite frankly I think if they could bring this in the US, Dollmore would have a hell of a time in court that's for sure. But, that'll never happen of course since it's Korean copyright we're dealing with.

I am very curious what Dollmore has to say about all this.

 

TO: Bordercollie

I understand you think the pictures can be manipulated. I ALSO AGREE it is easy to do

BUT it ALSO says (Mr. Dollshe's words) IF You are NOT convinced by pictures, he has BOTH dolls and will bring them to EVERY SINGLE DOLL MEET IN KOREA so you can look at it yourself and judge for yourself


I'm not trying to be rude, again my bold words means that's what i want to emphasize, not being sarcastic.

And to Zalem. Thank you for your explanation. I'm also 3/4 done with the translations. i hope to finish this within 2 -3 hours. it's really REALLY long and she uses a LOT of law words and a lot of.... sophisticated words ^^;;; i'm looking ALL of them up for accuracy sake.

 

Thank you Gayle for your kind words. It does mean a lot to me.

 

Again, i'm truly sorry for the long run-on sentences. i can cut it up to fit in English grammar, but I think it looses what Miss Eun-Young is trying to say.
And again, the "(?)" means it is slightly loosely based, any Koreans can help me correct it with better translated word if they feel necessary. For everyone's sake, I have gotten another Korean friend of mine to re-read what I wrote and help me fix my writing as well





This is Miss. Eun-Young's Letter to DEN OF ANGELS and other communities: (And she had used PamSD's pictures, (i believe to the Korean communities as well? ) as examples of what DOLLMORE believe is accurate and how dollshe and kyle are very different. )

@ 돌쉬쪽의견에 대한 돌모아의 글
멋진 인형만을 제작하시는 돌쉬님의
또다른 모습, 사이버테러에 매우 실망을 느낍니다.
사건의 발단은 카일원형의 카피여부에 대한
돌쉬님의 의혹입니다.
현재 돌쉬님께서는 무단으로 카일을 가져가셔서
비교사진이란 명목하에 많은 사진과
사이트이름과 제 실명을 거론하면서
인형관련 커뮤니티, 게시판, 상품리뷰, 메일, 문자, 전화등
법적인 아닌 감정적인 마찰을 일으키시고 계십니다.
현재 많은 분들이 궁금해하시는 세가지 안건에 대해서
저의 답변입니다.


@ At this new and different side of the creator of great and wonderful dolls, Dollshe-nim (-sama/Lord) , for just showing the dollshe side of the story instead of explaining also the dollmore side, we are very disappointed of this Cyber-Terror.
The origin of this event is the Dollshe-nim (-sama/Lord)'s doubt of Kyle's original body being possibly a copy.
Right now, Dollshe-nim (-sama/Lord/Mr.) have taken Kyle in masses under the pretext of "comparisons pictures" and took many pictures, and discussed about our site's name and my name to the dollfie related communities, message boards, dollfie reviews, mail, text messages, phones etc, and in general, not using legal processing ways but using his emotions to flare friction.
Here will be my answers to three matters that many of our audiences are curious about.



1. 돌모아는 왜 원형사를 밝히지 않는가?
현재 카일의 원형사의 돌모아의 전속원형사로
인형계에는 알려지지 않은 분입니다.
현재까지 발표하지 않고 있는 이유는 돌쉬님께서
저의 이름과 사이트를 무단으로 노출하여 인신공격을
하고 있기때문에 법적절차를 마무리지어서 이런 테러에서
저희 원형사의 명예와 인권을 보호하기 위함입니다.
원형사는 법정에서 공개할 예정입니다.



1. Why didn't Dollmore not reveal the sculptor?
Right now, Kyle's sculptor is Dollmore's exclusive sculptor and is not well known in the BJD world.
The reason why to this day we have not revealed him is because Mr.Dollshe have exposed on a massive scale of my name and our site and attacked our integrity/character (?) we want to end this with the legal process and wish to protect our sculptor's honor and human rights from such terrors.
We will announce the sculptor's name at the court.



2. 왜 돌모아는 답변을 하지 않는가?
저희가 적극적인 답변이나 글을 지연되었던점은
업무를 볼수없는 시간대에 이사건들이 발생하여서 랍니다.
돌쉬님이 사무실에 왔던 토요일도 업무가 종료될쯤이었고
일요일날 법적인 대응을 한다는 연락을 받았으며
월요일은 법적인 대응을 준비하고 있었습니다.
또한 테러를 감한한 화요일은 제가 용인송담대 인형과에
온종일 강의를 간 날이었기 때문입니다.
그리고 수요일은 실질적인 테러에 대응해서 고소와 법적인
절차를 진행하기 위해서 이렇게 답변이 늦어졌습니다.
또한 이런 원색적이고 과격한 사건을 일으킨분께
좀더 냉정하게 올바른 대처를 하기 위함이었습니다.


2. Why haven't Dollmore responded?
The reason why we have delayed in our immediate replies is because these events happened during our non-business hours.
When Mr. Dollshe came to our office, it was Saturday and our office was about to close, and (Mr.Dollshe?) received on Sunday for legal confrontation and by Monday started to prepare for legal processing.
Also regarding the terror on Tuesday, I was at Yong-In-Song-Dam-Dae (College she teaches at) doll's meeting and i was gone the entire day.
And on Wednesday, we wanted to confront the substantial terror, we pressed charges and legal processes, so our respond became late.
And also it is to severely and properly take care of the person who have caused such a harsh and radical event.



3. 돌모아는 왜 전화를 피하는가?
돌쉬님의 전화를 받지 않은 이유는
이미 11월 18일 토요일날 오후 업무마감시간쯤
찾아오셨던 돌쉬님은 11월 19일 일요일날 9시 28분에
문자메일로 법적으로 진실여부를 밝히자고
통보해오셨습니다. 또한 메일로도 더이상의 타협은 없다고
하셨었습니다. 그 말은 더이상의 즉 더이상의
대화가 필요없다는 말입니다.
실제로 그뒤에 온 전화는 위 사항을 되풀이 설명하는
감정에 찬 전화로 돌모아를 폐업시키겠다는 협박성 내용이
대부분이었습니다.
업무방해가 될정도로 전화가 많이 오고
불쾌한 문자메일이 계속적으로 도착하고
제가 강의간 동안 테러를 강행하고
테러를 한 그날밤 밤 11시 33분에 전화를 하면서
이른시간이라고 하는 분과
어떤 대화를 할 수 있을까요?
저는 현재 계속되는 전화와 거친말들에
매우 지쳐있는 상태입니다.
이런 정황으로 볼때 더더욱 저는 저희 카일과
돌모아, 그리고 원형사분을 보호해야겠다는
생각이 듭니다.



3. Why is Dollmore avoiding phone calls?
The reason why we did not receive Mr. Dollshe's phone calls is because Mr. Dollshe have come by on November 18th, Saturday when our office was about to close and Mr. Dollshe notified us through text message on November 19th, Sunday at 9:28 (my guess is that this is am) that we will settle this legally at court, of the truth. Also he said through mail that there will be no more compromise. This means that no more conversation was necessary. Actually, all the phone calls afterwards were mostly threatening contents, full of heated emotions, repeating the facts over and over that he will bring down Dollmore. He have called us so much that our work was delayed/distracted and sent us many unpleasant text messages again and again, and while I was in college teaching my lessons, he enforced his terror, and how can I talk to someone who he calls me at the night when he started his terror, which was at 11:33 (pm my guess) , and believe that, that is not a late hour and a good time for a decent conversation? Right now I am very tired from constant phone calls and many harsh words being spoken. In such situation, I have firmly decided that all the more I must protect our Kyle, Dollmore and our Sculptor.

 

* 카일의 제작에 대한 이야기
카일은 돌모아에서 1년동안의 시간과 정성을 들여서
열심히 제작한 모델돌로 타사의 인형을 모방한 제품이
아님을 알려드립니다.
제작당시 모델돌의 모델은 188cm의 남성모델을 평균치몸매를
기준으로 제작에 들어갔으며 중간 중간 수많은 포즈테스트를
거쳐서 제작을 하였습니다.
카일의 인체비례는 기존에 나온 여아의 바디를 기준으로
제작이 되었으며 카일은 매우 섬세하게 인체의 근육과 비례를
표현한 한 아이랍니다.



* The story of the Creation of Kyle
Kyle is created by Dollmore after 1 year of care, hard work and many hours, and is not a product of some other doll company's doll. At the time of its creation, dollmore's model dolls were modeled after 188cm guy models in real life with their body measurements in mind as we created Kyle and had undergone many pose-testing in the preparation of his creation. Kyle's human body proportions were processed from existing little girl's existing body proportions, and Kyle is a child expressed with delicate muscles and body proportions.



비슷한 체격의 비슷한 키의 모델들을 모아놓는다면
체구는 비슷해질 수 있다고 생각합니다.
또한 인형들간에 관절이 맞는 다는 것은
어떻게 보면 구체관절인형의
특징이라고 말씀드릴 수 있습니다.



If anyone put comparisons shots of similar height/size dolls next to one another, of course because they are based on human body proportions, they will think that these dolls look similar.
Also saying that these doll's joints can be replaceable to another shows that this is a special feature unique to BJDs.


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P1-1.jpg



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P2-1.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P3.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P4.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P5.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P6.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P7.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P8.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P9.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P10.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P11.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P12.jpg



구체관절인형은 관절부분이 구형태입니다.
그래서 어느정도 원의 지름이나 둥근정도에
따라서 호환이 가능한데요,
비슷한 체구에 비슷한 키를 가진 성인의 경우
팔두께가 많이 차이나는 경우는 없습니다.
저희 원형사분은 목공구를 이용해서 관절을
제작하셨다고 하는데요, 이런 구들은 대부분
규격품으로 2mm간격으로 사이즈가 나오는
것으로 알아요. 그러니 대부분 관절부분이 구형태인
부분은 어느정도 호환이 되고 두께가 비슷한
부위의 관절은 호환이 됩니다.
현재 60cm급 구관과 40cm급 구관들도 비교해보시면
각각의 회사별로 디자인과 관절의 가동력은 달라도
구의 크기는 비슷하고 키와 나이대가 비슷해서
바디,목, 손, 발등이 호환되는 것을
쉽게 발견하실수있습니다.
그래서 대부분의 인형들이 의상이나 신발, 가발을 함께
이용할수있는 것이랍니다.
그리고 인형의 제작과정에서 안쪽은 것만큼 표면처리를
하지 않기때문에 안쪽에는 대부분 흠집이 있는데요,
기울기나 각도가 비슷한 파츠이 경우 제작시 공구나
재료에 의해서 비슷한 부위에 흠집이 생기기도 합니다.
카일을 직접 보신분이라면 아시겠지만
실물을 보시면 그 당당함과 매력적인 바디라인에
반하실거구요, 카피란 말도 안되는 말입니다.


BJD's joints are always circular in form. So within a certain circumferences, all joints can be interchangeable with another doll, but since all adult's have similar proportion, especially if they are meant to be the same height, there wouldn't be much different in the joint circumference as well as thickness of limbs.
Our sculptor have used circular neck joint(?) when making the joints, and these balls are generally standard size of 2mm. Therefor, every joints that are to be fitted with a ball joint will be interchangeable with another limb with a joint ball since they all have a standard size.
Currently, if you compare the 60cm and 40cm BJD's ball jointed joints, though each company has different designs and mobility power, each ball size is similar in size and the height and "age it is based on" is similar so all body, neck, hand, arm, legs, feet etc so you can easily see that they all can be interchangeable.
And this is the reason why most dolls can share the dollfie clothes, shoes and wigs.
And about the inside of the doll, during the process of making this doll (most sculpors do not feel the necessary to smoothened the inside) (translator's note: the ( __) is not written but it is implied) , we did not smooth the inside, so most dolls have defects underneath, but because of how the mold is shaped and how the body porportions are similar so it is made in a similar way, and similar sculpi/clay was used so at the similar areas, it'll have similar defects.
If you look at Kyle in person, you'll fall in love with his boldness and charismatic body lines, and it is ridiculous to say these are copies.

 

돌모아는 이런 감정적인 공격에
냉정하게 법적으로 대응할 것을 알려드립니다.
현재 돌쉬님은 사이버테러및 영업방해, 비방,
사이버명예훼손, 협박으로 고소상태이며
근거없고 카일을 한번도 본적이 없는 분들이 추측에 의해서
올려주시는 모든 비방은 정보통신망법 44조항
저촉됨을 알려드립니다.
"질문과 답변"게시판에 질문이 아닌 비방을 일삼는 것 역시
법에 접촉됨을 알려드리면 각각의 커뮤니티운영자분들께는
역시 이 판결이 나지 않은 게시물을 게시하시는 것도
법적인 처벌대상임을 알려드립니다.
아래 링크는 해외 돌퍼럼에 올라온
카일과 돌쉬의 비교사진과 글입니다.
http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99701
글들과 사진을 읽어보시면 보다 많은 정보를 얻으실수있을거구요,
현재 사이버테러및 영업방해, 비방, 사이버명예훼손,
협박을 일삼는 돌쉬님의 태도는
70cm급 인형을 독점하고자하는 모습, 지나친 태도로 보여지며
돌모아에서도 법적인 이에 대처를 할것을 알려드립니다.
보다 자세한 내용은 다시 또 정리해서 올려드리도록 하겠습니다.



Dollmore would like to let everyone know they will severely act through legal processes against these emotional attacks. Currently, Mr. Dollshe is accusing us without any grounds through cyber-terror as well as disrupting our work environment, slander(?), destroying our cyber-honor/image, insults and threats. And Mr. Dollshe is helping those who have never seen Kyle in person make guesses and Mr. Dollshe, for putting up all these slanders, will be persecuted according to Information network law 44 provision.
I would also like everyone to know that for posting slanders instead of questions at the "Q&A" boards, is also violation of the law as well, and for the community moderators who notified the community of something that has not been judged at court yet, are also objects of lawful punishments.
If you click on the link below, this is from an international (outside Korea) message board with the comparision shots of Kyle and Dollshe Hound.
http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99701
You will gain a lot of information, if you read the words said on this thread as well as if you look at these pictures.
Also Mr. Dollshe's attitude as of his cyber-terror and dirstupting our work, slanders, shaming cyber-honor/image and many threats, only shows that he wants to monopolize the 70cm line dolls and is acting over-dramatic about the situation and Dollmore will persecute him lawfully, accordingly.
I will send another detailed notice once I have organized more detailed facts. thank you very much.





Done.... total - 8 hours -.-;;;; i'm gonna go eat turkey guys, c yas.

 

For some reason, this is really turning into a big "he said, she said" kind of thing. =_=; But even with all that, they still haven't cleared up the issue about the markings on the inside of the bodies. All they did was post comparison pictures like we've already seen. And I mean, I'm sorry, but the fact that the only person we know of that has a Kyle won't show us or even tell us if the markings are there...it's suspicious.

I am waiting with baited breath as to the outcome of the legal proceedings. My thoughts are with Mr. Dollshe, and I support him 100%.

 

....They still haven't addressed the MAIN concern. The markings and bump inside the body. =___=

 

Seriously. All somebody has to do to (mostly) lay this whole thing to rest is to take pics of the inside of Kyle's torso.
Dollmore's refusal to do so isn't really helping their case any.

 

Thank you for translating this. It is very nice of you. ^_^

Also, they did address the inside marks...

And about the inside of the doll, during the process of making this doll (most sculpors do not feel the necessary to smoothened the inside) (translator's note: the ( __) is not written but it is implied) , we did not smooth the inside, so most dolls have defects underneath, but because of how the mold is shaped and how the body porportions are similar so it is made in a similar way, and similar sculpi/clay was used so at the similar areas, it'll have similar defects.
If you look at Kyle in person, you'll fall in love with his boldness and charismatic body lines, and it is ridiculous to say these are copies.
__________________

 

Probably a bit belated (as others have taken shots of the insides of their Hounds already) but as I said I would do last night, today I disassembled Marius and took some shots showing internal casting marks. They're up on my doll LJ in this post, annotated to state what body part is shown and angle of shot.

Sorry I didn't get them up sooner; had some RL non-BJD drama going on today that took precedence.

Granted, all the Dollshe shots in the world won't be much use for comparison without corresponding Dollmore body shots of the same body parts....

 

I don't think it would actually put anything to rest as humans in general seem drawn to drama, but it would definately be helpful.

 

Well no, but it'd cut down on a lot of the arguing, one way or another. We'd just have to wait for a court verdict.

 

Weird that thye only breif skimmed over the markings that were the one thing that made Mr. Dollshe sure his work was stolen. What she said about them being made similary is not a real awnser in my opinion.
Seems fishy that Dollmore won't take pictures of the inside of Kyle's tummy. Prehaps if more people recive old-body Kyle and are good enough to take pictures we will finally know. So far Dollshe's evidence is alot more convincing to me.

We still don't know if the new body has the same issues. It will be intresting to see.

 

Thank you Rukawagf.
If you lived near me, I'd invite you for dinner, and Pie at my house.^^

You have done so much to clarify the situation, and inform us about the opposing sides.

I still submit this should have be handled between the two parties involved.

 

They tried to side-step the markings issue by saying that such imperfections naturally occur. While that is true it does NOT explain why such marks happen to occur in the same exact places as the Dollshe dolls. Imperfections in a mold are not things that can happen in such a coincidental manner. And overall I don't find their answers satisfactory. I'm rather disappointed with their response. I guess we have to just wait for a final outcome in court. As for me personally, I won't be buying from Dollmore in the future. Though I suppose it's not a huge deal for me since I've only bought outfits from them. I'm neither a Dollshe nor a Dollmore fan when it comes to their actual dolls.

 

Thanks Rukawa!!! I suppose what settles it (partly) is when we see every other Kyle that has been shipped (before this drama) to have the same exact resin marks on the inside.

My CP Boy also has those marks though, I wonder if it is the same exact markings for all the CP boys.

 

That didn't address squat. They fanned that away like they did Mr. Dollshe. They didn't give an explaination how the marks ended up in the SAME PLACE. :/ Similar defects my fanny, that's all too much of a coincidence.
And oh look, a shameless plug about Kyle. =__=

 

I just pointed out how they addressed it. Do not be smart with me. I was just trying to be helpful. I am sorry if their answer does not please you, but do not use my quotes as a platform for your rant. Use theirs. I really hope we can all be civil and nice and not make others feel bad here.

 

Anyone else notice that Dollmore's comparison pictures were Hound v. 1? It's Hound v. 2 that has the same shoulder jointing.

 

I wasn't being "smart"...okay wait, yeah I was. But not at you. you didn't avoid questions that needed to be answered, Dollmore did. I don't know why you're taking personal offense to something that was not directed at you.

 

Ok, lets just forget about it then.

 

Is that so? I had wondered which body they were accused of copying. At least I have that tidbit straight now.

 

No, in fact that is most assuredly a Hound V.2 body

 

I didn't notice until this latest set of profile pix were put up that there is a distinct difference in the profile of the elbow joints from front to back. All the Dollshe pix showed them front-on, I believe.

 

I've been reading this since day one....

I'm stuck directly in the middle.

I seem some of the same thing in both sculpts but we see those in plenty of dolls! It isn't the outside sculpt that's the problem so much, but the HANDS... those really keep me drawn. (And the necks. Why the necks? The back of Kyle's neck, in the profile shot, is not as sloped in the back but the front of it.. then again, that's how our and dolls necks are!!o__O; ) Though that may be me nitpicking..

Court will settle it.... I thought Dollmore was very polite about the issue but I do agree that some things were avoided. Then again, they were being nice by at least telling us their side, right?

I like Hounds, I like Kyles.

Go eat turkey, everybody, who does that.

 

just with my bisic knowledge of molding,
the mold is made out of silicon, u know that this is soft.
and that's why u can only copy the dolls up to 20 per one mold.
also it causes to have each doll very very slightly different shape.
just very slight that u don't even notice,
but for that bump in side his torso part is too small,
it can look different.

does that answer ur question? ^- ^

 

thank u~!!!
u r soooooooo right!! ;0 ;
i like the part that u said it as "fingerprint"

 

I see two distinctly different dolls. The torsos, the proportions, the jointing look entirely different--even the angle of the neck that was said to be the same, looks different, although both are within the bounds of what would be considered naturally human. The main similarity is in finger position, and I cannot damn an artist for sculpting a similar form, especially since it represents the way human hands are positioned in repose. When Michaelangelo painted the hand of God on the Sistine Chapel, did that preclude all other artists from painting hands in a similar position?

As to the internal markings, I looked and saw many shallow depressions scattered through out the interior of the torso of my Saint. Any number of them could be circled to represent a pattern. The only mark that stood out was a raised circle that did not look natural--it looked like it was made by an instrument. But let us say that the markings match up dent for dent between Kyle and Hound, what does that say? That Hounds torso was used as a base, perhaps for size, rather than the artist's own armature. Or maybe there is a standard armature upon which to begin the sculpture of a male torso? I'm speculating. Regardless, the end result is vastly different than the base. I could draw an analogy to doll clothing. Because I sew, I often can spot the existing slopers that were used as patterns for "original" doll outfits. In fact, I know exactly what pattern was used, seam for seam, to create some recently popular, gorgeous girls' outfits. Does that make the outfits less artistic or unique? In my opinion, no.

As a scientist, I know that the results of one research study form the basis upon which further studies are inititiated, and that information shared leads to a greater wealth of knowledge than secrets closely guarded for the sake of competition. Dollmore's boy could have expanded the market for both companies.

Art builds upon art. Science builds upon science. Technology builds upon technology. If it didn't, we'd have to recreate the wheel every time we wanted a new car.

 

Am I the only one who thinks that Dollmore only damned themselves more with their response and pictures?

 

That doesn't make it right. Permission wasn't given by the original artist. That's what makes it morally wrong. If Dollmore had asked Dollshe's permission to use his body sculpt or a recast of it as a base for a custom body and he had ok'd it, then there wouldn't be a problem.

 

I agree. Copying a mold without permission is stealing, period. If Dollmore could not sculpt a 70cm male body mold themselves, they would have been better off not making a 70cm male at all. Passing off someone else's base as your own original creation is wrong, especially for profit. I'm not saying one way or another who is guilty or not, mind, but IF they did, it would be disgustingly wrong.

 

I'm with Sabriell- you're totally not the only one. ^^

 

Rukawagf, thank you so much for translating it all, You must be exhausted! especially since today is an American holiday (I think) so you shouldn't be working today!

Personally, I was absolutely convinced Dollmore was guilty, but their argument puts just a tiny bit of hope in my mind....

This is the area of the bodies that most makes me think it'a a copy. But in this pic they don't look identical...hm....
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/eseaw/P6.jpg

(this is so irrelevent but my goodness does Kyle look gorgeous in Dollmore's comparison photos! oh please let it be some weird fluke that he is not a copy cos he is stunning! (hehe that's a joke.)

I like how you put it, and I agree. It's really nice that the tone here is non-flamey!



Maybe it's time to bring up One Love. (cookies for anyone who guesses who performed the song I stole the name from!)
I created it when the DZ controversy was getting very heated, to try and prevent any cruelness towards people just for the doll they own. (I hate Dollzone. I do NOT hate the owners!!)
It stands for how every single one of us loves dolls, and we shouldn't be cruel to people for loving their own dolls.
It is there to remind us to respect people, regardless of what we think of the company that made the doll, and to remind us not to create cliques or be exclusive or elitist.
So add One Love to your sig if you want! (it's very small!)

 

I don't know enough about Hound 1 vs. Hound 2 to say which it is... but here is a comparison of Hound 1 vs. Hound 2 bodies from the pic request subforum. It's old, but it actually shows a lot of great angles! (Just to restate, there are NO Kyles in these pictures, just Hounds!)

http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21418

 

I would still like to see more owner comparison photos. Both companies have positioned the comparisons in ways that best suit their own case. We need someone with both to take very carefully posed photos. I know Pam has a comparison thread, but something more...scientific? maybe? and from an uninterested third party.

 

Based on the chest peices, I'd say Dollmore used the V.2 body in their comparisons.

 

That would be great.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if there are any uniterested parties who own a Model Doll AND a Hound...

 

Babytarragon.....Bob Marley?

Michelle

 

I totally agree...
The owners are the people who had been lied to.
They bought these dolls in perfectly good faith.

 

Second it...
Can I put your banner on my sig?

 

Yep. The only thing is, it's an 'old' V.2 body. The new v.2 bodies have more pronounced slots in the shoulder, and possibly the wrist joints for the elastic to go through.
If that is of any consequence at all.

 

Most certainly~!
Bifrost is glad to support his creator. ^____^

 

Like everyone else here, I'm very interested in seeing inside shots of Kyle from an owner. Since crrently the only owner on the forums has elected not to take her boy apart (which is fine) we're stuck until the next Kyle arrives...if their owner agrees.

I'm just wondering if now that those marks have been found, assuming they are in Kyle, if the next shipped batch won't HAVE them. I'm also not sure how many Kyle's were shipped with the thin body in the first batch. Does anyone know basic numbers here? PamSD's Kyle may be the only doll we currently that could prove this, but I certainly hope he won't be the only one EVER.

I also heart that banner and agree, I think Dollmore's response was....further evidense that they're hiding something. Unfortunatly I don't think it'll fit with the sig limits in my sig ;.; *waves banner*

 

I just find it funny, because some of the Dollshe owners here never even had to take the doll appart to see the bump specifically. They just popped the joint. Wonder if that could be done on Kyle, or other dolls with the torso joint and not the hip joint.

 

I think the thing is that those who own Kyle are understandably feeling pressured and beseiged and rather than making people want to pop open or take apart their boys, this is all having the opposite effect and making people want to protect their doll's privacy.

Personally, I understand that feeling; if I had Kyle, I would be blocking up his ears too!

 

I could see it on Marius (Houd V2) just fine; I dismantled him because it was easier to photograph (plus he needed restringing anyway, so I figured I may as well take advantage of that to get some pics).

With regards to what type of Hound was used, Marius is a V2 Hound purchased via Luts in December 2005.

 

I can understand that.

But if it were me, I'd be dying to know for myself and would at least make an attempt at defending my doll or the company I happened to support by taking the photos.

Even if it meant risking the discovery or helping prove that it was, indeed, a modified copy.

 

Even Dollmore could have done so

 

Dollmore wouldn't risk damning themselves. I'm speaking from a doll owner's point of view.

 

hehe nope sorry not Bob Marley, I'm not cool enough to know his songs!

 

You have to remember though, that the companies are now in the midst of legal proceedings, so they are most likely restricted to what they can and can't say publicly. I know it doesn't help Dollmore in the slightest but.. *shrug*


Also, in regards to the hands, I have a Dollmore Eve, and her hands are similar in posing and the lines on the palm. To me thats just the way Dollmore designs things. This of course has nothing to do with the inside markings, which we all agree is the main problem.

 

I'm not asking anything from the companies. I tend to have difficulty believing anything either side would present.

If I had one of each of these dolls I'd gladly take care of all of the photo's that are being asked for my myself and by others but I don't own either.

The only reason I'm even bothering with this is to see how Dollshe is affected by the end outcome as I plan to order a Dollshe boy sometime in the future.