Surface

Surfacing can have at least two meanings.
One meaning might be for sealing the doll, prior to painting face-ups and body blushing.
From what I understand, MSC is the preferred surfacer for face-ups.
Another meaning might be for priming the doll for smoothing, prior to molding in silicone rubber.
Auto body primer is often suggested for this purpose.

 

I think the shiny finish on the primed dolls comes from lots of sanding!

 

Please remember to use a respirator when sanding your doll.

 

This is what I do to prepare a clay doll for moldmaking with silicone:

I sand my doll with sandpaper to about 240 (wet) grit befire priming. I use acrylic autobody primer/filler mixed with all-purpose thinners and apply it with a spraygun.

Then I sand with 4-600 grit, wet. If there are any surface issues, I fix them, then prime again.

Spraying primer with a fun leaves a nice dimply, matte texture, but I usually want a very smooth surface on my doll, so I sand with 600 grit (wet) and then top the whole doll off with 1500 grit, wet. This makes the doll very glossy.

Therefore I give a final coat of MSC, which is normally used for faceups as a surface prep and protective coat on resin dolls. I use it because it dulls the glossy surface just a little, but it is still quite smooth, so when I sand the seams on the resin doll there is not such a terrible difference in texture between the sanded and unsanded areas.

 

I'm using a combination of sanding, mr surfacer 500, more sanding and car primer and getting a pretty smooth finish. The mr surfacer is useful in hard to sand crevices and recesses.

 

Curious newbie question: What materials do you need more heavy protection for when sanding?Does a dust mask and eye protection sufice for some of this stuff? I know about resin,but what about ladoll or sculpty and are there some primers or coatings that are more toxic than others. :confused:

 

You can safely assume that most coatings consist of thinners and tiny particulates, neither of which are good for you. Dust mask isn't great protection, but better than nothing. I prefer a respirator because the air tastes fresher than your own breath and heat lingering in a dust mask.

Sanding anything creates a fine dust, which when you inhale can be trapped in your lungs. Your body can't expel it, so it builds tissue around it. In the long term, this useless encapsulating tissue builds up and does not help put oxygen in the blood, but takes up space in the lungs and reduces their capacity. Some dusts are worse than others, but even a baker can get silicosis from all the flour he is exposed to.

 

Wet sanding is the best way to keep from inhaling dust from any material when sanding.
Not all materials are suitable for wet sanding.
twigling models her originals in Apoxie Sculpt, which is suitable for wet sanding.

I sincerely doubt that LaDoll/Premier/Premix/DAS air-dry clays are suitable for wet sanding?
They may air-dry, but how long do they last when wet for an extended period of time?
Can they be wet sanded after being coated with a primer?

Cast porcelain slip doll parts may be wet sanded after being soft fired to at least Cone 018?

Carving wax may be wet sanded, but I do not think it is necessary?
The wax seems to bind the talc, and there does not seem to be any dust when sanding?
The wax sticks to sandpaper, tule, nylon stockings, and steel wool.

Sculpey and other polymer clays? How much dust is produced?
I would think that they can be safely wet sanded after being cured by heat?

Other materials, such as paper mache, do not seem to be suitable for wet sanding?

Wood, when dampened, raises wood fibers which may be sanded to obtain a finer finish. Not too many BJD artists who work with wood here, though.

 

yeah, you definitely cannot wet-sand anything made of stone clay or paper clay, as it just sucks the moisture back up. this IS useful for when you have a sculpt you don't like; you can just reconstitute it. but on my WIP paperclay doll head, i did wet-sand him after two or three coats of gray primer, and THAT worked out great.

i haven't wet-sanded sculpey, but i know from dry sanding that it really sticks in the sand paper and gunks it up, so maybe wet-sanding would wash out the sandpaper and make it easier.

 

You do want to wet sand sculpey if you can as it will create a lot of dust. Not as fine as paper clay, but it still gets into the air and is toxic alright. Drywall sanding sheets work better than regular sandpaper for me because they're like a mesh with lots of holes so the dust can just fall through it instead of getting clogged up in the paper. It lasts a lot longer too. I didn't find wet sanding with regular paper washed away the dust any better, but it might have been the paper I was using.

 

Does anyone use ladoll/airdry clay coated with spray gesso?

If so, is this a suitable material for casting? I've been able to get an extremely smooth surface this way on previous sculpture projects, but I wasn't sure if the gesso would need extra protection during the mold making process. Do you think a msc coat might help?

 

What does the Mr. Surfacer and auto body primer do to sculpey. The reason I asked is because I am sanding and I've noticed small scratches on the surface of my brown sculpey and a dull ashy like coating is on the surface after I sand and wash the doll. How do I get rid of the white filmy looking stuff and the scratches. I have low grit and high grit. They don't seem to be getting rid of those little scratches though. Does the Mr. Surface and auto body primer help with that?

 

Yes they do; those materials do fill small scratches, but you need to wet sand over the top with a very high grit to bring the surface to a gloss, 12-1500, otherwise it will still be dull when it dries. You can also use a gloss primer, I think ~ the ones I use are matte. You'd need to prime and sand a couple of times before doing a top coat of primer. More than likely you will spot more surface issues, and its best to work on the surface until they are gone or you loose your mind, whichever happens first.

The white filmy stuff would be dust? You need to wash it off, use Prepsol (degreaser). You can also use a bit of detergent in the water that you use when sanding to help the flow.

 

Thanks for all the info! There's so much to learn. I think I would rather my surface be matte than glossy. What is the name of the matte finish? And I was hoping to maintain the color of the terracotta clay I'm using. Is that possible? I can see now, sanding is going to be a chore that lasts forever! I wish there was a quick fix! I have every grit of sand paper but I think I suck at sanding! I will probably lose my mind first. Lol!

 

Hmmmm, primer is usually grey. Mine comes in a paint tub and I mix it with all-purpose thinner and apply with a spray gun attached to an air compressor. Acrylic primer filler also comes in a spray-can. I don't know whether you can get it in other colours, but if you want to maintain the original surface, you could spray on and then sand it all away again, any depressions (scratches etc) would also have primer in them and would be visible as grey until they are sanded away. Any stubborn or hard to reach areas, paint thinners or acetone should clean out any remnants.

Sorry, there is no magic wand; it's all hard work

 

The generic car primer I get from Halfords (in the UK) comes in gray white and 'red' which is a dark red, rusty, almost teracotta colour if the can top is to be believed. It's the nicest primer I've tried, nice dense consistency and sands really fine.
I find gray good for showing imperfections but I'm tempted to get some white as a finishing coat. Going to do a test to see if MSC works on top of it.

 

Awe man. I was hoping there was a clear primer....

 

Clear primer? No. How would you be able to see any of the surface issues that you are trying to remove then by using a primer? Maybe what you want is a clear (ie. transparent, not glossy) sealer or varnish of some type, but those are intended to protect the surface, not a) to help you see surface imperfections and smooth out the surface a b) to prepare the surface for further treatments.

Sounds like you are better off leaving the doll as it is without priming, and just working on the surface to improve it by sanding without spraying or painting anything on top to help you see.

 

This is a good example of a post that shows why we need a Wiki at The Joint.
A good Wiki would have a Glossary that would distinguish these types of issues.
So far, how many things does SURFACE mean?

 

I'd suggest someone just start a wiki separate from the forum and build it all up with information from here and link to it from here. Maybe it can be built or imported into the forum later?

http://www.wikia.com/Wikia