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Materials Question about materials

Aug 18, 2011

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    1. I've read forum threads about materials and finishing, but many of you mold your dolls.

      I would ask experienced sculptors of clay/porcelain dolls about materials and finishing. I'm a horrible perfectionist and I want to use good stuff to make my dolls with high quality.
      I will follow this tutorial http://www.aimi-doll.com/howto/index.html but google translate is very poor and unintelligible :p

      It's list of tools I want to collect soon:
      - mini grinder (multitool)
      - precise knife/scalpels
      - different sculpting tools
      - Liquitex modelling paste
      - oil/ acrylic paints/ pastels
      - latex sponges and brushes
      - florist foam
      - aluminium foil
      - air drying Fimo clay
      - 0,9 mm wire
      - sandpaper sponges

      And now I've got some questions.
      Is Fimo Air clay will be good and strong enough for dolls' shells? My oven is broken, so I can't use baked clays :( It's important for me to reach smooth, porcelain like finish surface. In my country I can only buy Fimo and Cernit clays :pout

      I'm thinking about finishing. Some tutorials show to use modelling paste and then paint on it. Is better to use first gesso then modelling paste? Or only gesso/ paste on clay surface?

      In this tutorial, artist uses oil paints. Is better to use oil or acrylic paints?

      And last thing - finishing lacquer. I want to use mat lacquer for whole doll and add some shine on eyes, lips and nails. Which lacquer to use? I don't want cracks or discolourations on it so it have to be quite flexible and strong.

      Thank you in advance for any help and tips :)) I will be very happy if you would help me :blush
       
      #1 morie91, Aug 18, 2011
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    2. As far as I know, both Fimo and Cernit are thermal cure polymer clays that must be baked at a certain temperature for a certain length of time to cure and become hard plastic that can withstand elastic tensioning.

      There is: Staedtler Fimo Air Basic Modeling Clay?
      I am not familiar with this clay, nor have I seen anyone using it for making a BJD?

      LaDoll and Premier (Activa brands) are both air-dry clays. DAS (Prang brand) is another brand of air-dry clay that seems to be available in Europe, and that has been used for making BJDs.

      The Aimi-Doll tutorial is very similar to the step-by-step tutorial in Ryo Yoshida's book, Yoshida Style Ball Jointed Doll Making Guide. Yoshida also uses air-dry clay.
       
      #2 kwmelvin, Aug 18, 2011
      Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2011
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    3. LaDoll and Premiere I would have to order from abroad :( There's no other option.
      Yep, I bought and testing now Fimo Air Basic. I've started with simple head and face sculpting. We will see what I receive :))

      Ah and maybe my oven gonna be repaired soon, so then I could try with Fimo Puppen or Cernit Doll polyclays :)

      I also thought about paper clay/pulp. I have to buy one pack and try ;)
       
      #3 morie91, Aug 18, 2011
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    4. I, for one, am always interested in learning about new materials, so please follow up with a review of the Fimo Air Basic, once you've had a chance to try it. Thank you for pointing to it. :)
       
      #4 kwmelvin, Aug 18, 2011
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    5. Fimo Puppen in my experience is really firm, (Cernit is also supposed to be one of the firmest clays out there) and great for hands, feet, faces and detail work, it has a really fine grain and can easily be made as smooth as porcelain, if thats what you're looking for. You could sculpt the majority of the doll in the Air you have now and just do the finishing touches and reinforce the joints with Puppen or Cernit it should string just fine. I don't know if you can add oven curing clay to air dry and cook it though, you may have to test it first.
      Another option would be to use an apoxie sculpt type clay, which are very good for sculpting details and reinforcing joints, and is also air dry. You can see many examples of how smooth the finish of Apoxie can be on this forum too. :)
      Once covered in an opaque modelling paste no-one would see the change in material.
       
      #5 irandom, Aug 18, 2011
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    6. I think about one thing with polyclays. Is it possible to bake it few times? :eek: For example, I make base head, then bake, then sculpt face features and bake again?

      I have to try mixes like air clay + polyclay or maybe paper clay + polyclay :))
       
      #6 morie91, Aug 19, 2011
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    7. Yes, you can bake again, but it may affect the colour, some clays will yellow with multiple baking, and any thin areas could become quite scorched looking and burnt. This is only really cosmetic.
      Baking it a few times shouldn't change how the clay performs, so don't worry about that. :D
       
      #7 irandom, Aug 19, 2011
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    8. Thank you :)) You satisfied my curiosity.

      I think rather to buy white polyclay and paint it later. Can I use it with gesso and moddeling paste? And then paint with oil paints? (I ask too much :p)
       
      #8 morie91, Aug 19, 2011
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    9. You can do anything you want to do with an Art Doll. ;)

      For example, I recently saw a BJD that had a crackle finish paint applied to it, which gave it an antique appearance.

      :)
       
      #9 kwmelvin, Aug 19, 2011
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    10. An important thing to note is that you shouldn't bake styrofoam since it will release toxic fumes. If you use an over bake clay, use something like tin foil as the core.
       
      #10 Yukamina, Aug 19, 2011
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    11. Good point Yukamina, and make sure you scrunch the al-foil up really tight, the first time I baked polymer clay over tin foil I ended up with a lot of trapped air that warped the piece. You live and learn. :sweat

      Like KWM says, you can do what you like, But Gesso, modelling paste and oil paints are a tried and true method. You could only use Gesso or modelling paste, I wouldn't think you need both, each have similar properties. If you make the whole doll out of polyclay you wont need to worry about making it completely water sealed as it wont turn to mush like paperclay could. You just need to get a uniform colour really. :D

      Good luck x
       
      #11 irandom, Aug 19, 2011
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    12. Thank you for all advices :o

      I've got a horrible problem which sits in my mind for whole time.
      0,5kg of polyclay costs a lot for me, so making 50cm tall doll may ruin my budget :dead I was thinking about base made in other than polyclay material. Unfortunately I can't receive here "apoxie clay and other amazing stuff" available abroad :pout Maybe sawdust clay? How to make it strong and heat resistant for further polyclay curing. It will shrink then?
      Ohhh one terrifying mess in my head :dead
       
      #12 morie91, Aug 20, 2011
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    13. Are you able to order materials like La Doll online? That's what I did; they didn't have it in stores here until recently (and it costs a lot less online still).
       
      #13 Yukamina, Aug 20, 2011
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    14. The most possible option is to order it from UK's Amazon :)) Hope the package will arrive to my home (I don't want to lost it or smthin :pout)

      But as I noticed, Fimo Air Basic, isn't so bad. It's fragile and needs to be protected by varnish of course, but is it similar to LaDoll?
       
      #14 morie91, Aug 20, 2011
      Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2011
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    15. If you use sawdust clay or inexpensive stone clay, it will shrink when drying, but after it's completely dry it won't shrink any more. Then you could bake it with no problem.

      I haven't seen Fimo Air Basic in stores here (US), so I don't know if it's similar to LaDoll. You've made me curious, so I will look for some. :) LaDoll is not very fragile when dry-- especially Premiere, that's quite strong.
       
      #15 Alewife, Aug 22, 2011
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    16. That's why I regret sometimes that I don't live in UK or US :[
      You need to put some power to destroy dried Fimo Air clay piece with approx. 6 mm thickness (I've made a small test). I think it may be similar to porcelain (or I'm wrong).

      I know that sawdust clay have to be maximally dried :)) But I worry about heating up the sawdust during polyclay curing :p

      Thank you for all :blush
       
      #16 morie91, Aug 22, 2011
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    17. That's good to know. Fimo Air clay is very strong when it is dry.

      Usually, polymer clay is cured at a temperature less than 300 degrees F.
      Sawdust Auto-ignition temperature: 400-500 degrees F.
      Reference: http://www.qmaxsolutions.com/Files/ContentVersionFile/47105/sawdust.pdf

      As far as I can see: No worries !!!
      :)
       
      #17 kwmelvin, Aug 23, 2011
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    18. Oh it's good to know, thank you :))
       
      #18 morie91, Aug 23, 2011
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    19. hi! I'm planning on making my first doll and I'd like to know a couple of things. First of all, can I make my doll out of Sculpey III?Second, can anyone give me a link to a good tutorial? And last(for now), can someone post a list of things I'll need to make the doll? Thanks!
       
      #19 sophiapony, Sep 1, 2011
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    20. #20 kwmelvin, Sep 1, 2011
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