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Puppit Productions Firefox W.I.P

Mar 8, 2012

    1. I'm impressed by your joint locks. I can't wait to see how you cure the rotating hip/thigh problem.
       
    2. Thanks Ghostdollie... I hope you'll be pleased with my solution to the hip joints as well:
      I put a little bulb/bump in the middle of the socket, which falls into a hole in the joint. When in place, the leg acts as a whole and can only move back and forth. When you pop it out and slide it into the slot, it can move sideways as well.
      I broadened the bottom slot so that the bulb doesn't interfere with the elastic running through the limbs.

      Straight position, lock in place:
      [​IMG]

      View of the lock:
      [​IMG]

      Unlocked, slid to the side:
      [​IMG]

      Same position seen from the front:
      [​IMG]
       
    3. Genius!!! When you string this will it be difficult to test it at full tension without breaking off the socket bulb? I assume you are going to cast the final in resin? Would your process be to do a junk or test cast first before finalizing the design of the mechanics? Sorry for all the questions!!! I think those of you who are engineering joint innovations are utterly heroic! And I am so curious about the many steps involved in the perfection of an improved design.
       
    4. This whole project is impressive from the beginning to the end, but those legs especially so. Just wow!
      Thank you so much for sharing your progress. It is truly inspirering.
       
    5. Thanks for the enthousiastic response! :D And don't worry, I'd rather have people asking a lot of questions than people who just say "nice" (or "lame") and nothing else :P Kinda gives the idea that they're just commenting for the sake of commenting, doesn't it.

      I've strung this one already. That is how I ran into the problem of the lock forcing the string to the side, limiting the range of movement, and therefore needed to broaden the bottom slot. I haven't strung it at maximum tension because I was indeed afraid the bulb might break off, but it was still strung pretty tight. It should work just fine once leg and bulb are cast as one solid piece of resin.
      These last few weeks the pictures all include a junk cast in resin for the final details. My original is grey-ish, as it is made of papier-maché (chewed paper), save for some detailed parts such as the feet (or anything else with fur), those were done in fimo clay (similar to sculpey). So it's easy to see which is junk-cast and which isn't.
      I sculpted all joints in the original, but it wasn't until I had a junk cast that I could make the final adaptations, simply because of the difference in material... And also because I could not let others handle the original (waaay too risky, what if they accidentally dropped her?!). Different people, different ways of handling, so different points of attention. I'm always extremely careful when handling a doll and can often balance them in ways their owners did not think would be possible... Hence why I didn't even think of locks at first, but I'm glad people pointed it out.
       
    6. -Before I forget: Thanks Lillith! I missed out on your comment earlier :)

      Sanded and adjusted the whole doll by now (will take an extra look at the face). The hands now also got nails:

      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]

      The only thing still left to do is make a little notch (lock) in the knee joints, so she can also stand with bent legs. Right now, she can only stand straight up: The fact that she's basically standing on her toes makes it difficult to balance her in a walking position, especially since she's also quite big (she's about 55 cm tall, ears included) and heavy (about a kilo/ 2.2 pounds).

      I might also need to adjust the headcap of the fox head, but I haven't moulded that one yet, so I'm not sure. It has a lot of bits of fur standing op that might prove to get too much bubbles when casting. So I might need to make that part a bit smoother. It will still have that lovely fur pattern of course.

      I've decided to make the eyes myself. I love both the human eyes and the fox eyes I got before, but they are both from different companies, and I can't get human eyes in the same colour and material from the company I bought the fox eyes from, and vice versa. I love the colours of the human eyes, so I'm going to try to mimic those a bit and make both human and fox eyes myself.
      I've never done that before, but I'm confident I can do it. Compared to moulds and joints, eyes are easy :P


      Even though I don't have a complete set of master moulds yet (I have some, but not all) and still need to adjust the knees, I'm going out on a limb here and start the pre-order for both girls at Christmas day (GMT +1). I promised I would do so, after all.
      Just the nude version and parts though, since I don't have a definite face-up, clothes or even eyes yet.
      I hope some people who have followed me over the past two years trust me enough to join in already. Those who wish to wait for pictures of the eyes, or a posing video, or a full set can always join in later.
      I already have the promise of a international Ball Jointed Dolls shop in the Netherlands (not written, but I know these people and I don't think they'll back out, unless I do something utterly stupid), that they would like to be my agent and sell Seraphim and Neva for me (both pre-order and direct sale of finished dolls in their store). I'm not entering in a contract with them before I've got a full set done, though... They're a fancy business and I don't even have my own website yet (well, I have one, but there's hardly anything on it yet). This pre-order is somewhat of a kick-starter and will be done mainly through my Deviantart page.

      I've put together a legal document with terms of agreement and all. I will calculate the exact price this evening and take measurements, and hopefully put up pictures of the master (complete with knee-locks and everything) tomorrow morning... And get this thing started :)
      It's been an eventful year, I hope some people will join in to support my starting company :)
       
    7. #127 Puppit, Dec 25, 2013
      Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2013
    8. Hi guys,

      got some much needed rest over the holidays, cleaned up the workspace a bit (tiny bit) and done some financial shit... And now I'm back to work again, because this doll isn't just done yet.

      Re-visited the headcap. This was one of the things scheduled for possible adjustments, as it had lots of tiny hairs sticking out that would almost surely result in bubbles in the cast.
      So I covered most of the thing in polymer clay once again, and following the lines of the previous design on the outskirts, made the locks of fur nice and smooth, yet still appearing fluffy.
      It actually matches the rest of the head much better now.
      Also added my signature (human head already had this, but the fox head did not).

      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
       
    9. Wow! I LOVE that fox head! The teeth are especially perfect. AH! The whole thing is just gorgeous! Great work.
       
    10. Thanks Dry Oak Leaf :)

      I finished the mould of the fox head, and the result of the first try at casting totally wowed me.
      A tiny bit of bubbles in the headcap (due to shaking the resin too much), but the fox head... Damn.
      Here are two snapshots:

      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]

      Look at those teeth! A tiny bit of overflow, but that's it! *does happy dance*

      The only negative is that I cut my thumb while removing the air channels... It's quite difficult to remove them without cutting off the tip of some of locks of fur of the back of the cheeks... I need to find a way to fix that (possibly just filling up a bit of the air vent touching the locks, so I have some wiggle room).
       
    11. Thank you for being so generous with your information and so patient with us curious onlookers! Amazing work, and your process is inspirational!
       
    12. Thanks so much :) The nice comments keep me going. I actually had a really bad day: turns out my resin is extremely sensitive to humidity, and because of the misty weather every cast today turned out like solid champagne (thousands of tiny bubbles)... So it's nice to have some encouragement :)
       
    13. Like mentioned a few days ago... A problem arose. Again.
      My resin, carefully tested and chosen best during summer... Turned out to be the most sensitive resin ever when it comes to moisture now that it's winter.
      The rainy cold has resulted into what can best be described as solid champagne. Or a Bros bar (you know, that bubble-chocolate bar thingy).
      From the outside, it looks fine: Look at that fur, totally smooth. But under the correct angle you can see that it is actually full of tiny bubbles. Hold it up against a lamp (or the sun), and you can see the whole structure is compromised.
      So while it still looks nice from the outside, a doll cast like this will probably damage very easily.

      I'll have to find another resin. Which does not only cause delay because of shipping etc, but my earlier "recipe" for the tan skin colour mixture probably won't be correct anymore. So I'll have to go by trail-and-error and find a new mix.
      And I'll have to withdraw the pre-order, at least for the Firefox, because the colours aren't correct anymore.

      It would be so nice if everything just went well the first time for once! >.<

      [​IMG]
       
    14. ...But there is some good news too.
      Which actually came forth from bad news: I couldn't find fox eyes in the bright colours I wanted anywhere.
      I found some really pretty human eyes as you can see in my previous pictures, as well as pretty fox eyes, but the two don't match... Which I really wanted. So I decided to make all eyes myself.

      The eye bases are cast in the same PU-resin I used earlier for the rest of the doll. With super fast curing and an open mould the bubbles aren't much of a problem.
      Thin layers of polymer clay (fimo) were rolled into a cylinder, and slices of this cylinder were then pressed into the eye base. Some careful scratching with a needle for the pattern, and then the pupil was pressed into the iris and the whole thing baked.
      At this point none of the eyes have a gloss layer (except the one rainbow-coloured test in the first picture). Glossing them all by hand would be too time-consuming, so they'll all get a thin, moulded, clear epoxy resin coating later. So they still look a bit dull.

      Try-outs:
      [​IMG]

      The eventual selection:
      [​IMG]

      In their designated heads (of course the big fiery fox eyes are for fox-Seraphim and the smaller blue ones for human-Neva, but I didn't feel like photographing all heads)
      [​IMG]
       
    15. Resin update!
      Now, I did some research past week, e-mailed distributors and all that, and it turns out my original choice is probably still the best: Smooth cast 300.
      I switched to its slower curing brother, the 305, a few months ago, and it's this version that can't handle the humidity... Simply because of its slower curing time (= more time to react to moisture).
      I tried other resins and different ways of casting: higher temperature, air conditioning, aid curing with a blow-dryer... But in the end, there were only two solutions: Faster curing time, or a vacuum pump. Now, a vacuum pump, even a small one, is extremely expensive... And building one yourself is extremely dangerous.
      So faster curing time it is! This means that casting very detailed (pointy) parts will be a little difficult, because fast curing also means less time to get the air out... So I'll probably have to cast in portions: A tiny bit smeared into the open mould with a toothpick to make sure all the pointy little locks of fur/ tiny fingernails / teeth are filled out, and then close the mould and pour the rest.

      The good news is that this resin is easy to get in the Netherlands (no shipping/customs delay), and that I don't have to re-establish my colour recipe for the tan skin Firefox.
      Also, it has a long shelf life, contrary to most other resins, which is perfect if you need to cast tiny bits all the time.

      It's incredibly annoying that it has to be done this way, but then again, I really don't want to ship my doll of to some casting company I've never even been to...
      Especially since I am an excellent mould-maker (I am, dammit). Would be a shame to waste such fine moulds.
      And hey, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it :P

      ~Pre-order is still closed for now, I want to make sure I can produce an entire doll out of this resin in both colours before I open it again.~
       
    16. Guys, I need your help.
      I'm adjusting the last bits to this doll now that the resin matter seems to be settled, and I. Can't. Get her. To remain that f*cking fox stance.
      The bent knees. I can't get her to remain standing with bent knees. Or even one bent knee (walking position). Either the leg gives in or the torso doubles over to the side. I tried making and extra lock in the knees so she's got extra support in the right angle (upper half of the double knee joint now resembles a comma), but it turns out her weight is just too much. The ankle lock can't support the rest.
      Now we know why anthro SDs are so rare. And why the only brand that carries those (Soom) makes theirs absolutely rigid in the legs.
      I suppose a little wiring or hot-glue might help, and she can use the tail a little bit as a tripod, but it will remain a problem.

      Have you guys got any ideas on how to solve this? More locks? Maybe an extra support in the hip?
      Or shall I just ignore it completely? She can stand just fine, but only with stretched legs. I pride myself on having excellent mobility in the joints, but can I make that claim when my doll can't be posed in a casual stroll without trickery like wiring?
      Or is this simply the price you pay for having both mobility on dainty toes AND a large, heavy doll?
      While she can't squat, she can kneel, crouch, rest her head on her knees, fold her arms over each other, fold her legs...
      Shall I focus on that, and remove the ankle lock intended for the fox stance, so she can sit fox-like, with those large feet flat on the ground?

      I am getting quite sick of all these problems that keep showing up after you think you've solved them...
       
    17. I hope you can find a way to make it work, because those amazing super poseable fox legs are my favourite part, I have a couple of ideas, but I don't know if you think they'd be practical for your project.

      You might try to modify the stringing channel on the joints? Sometimes just putting a pin horizontally through the pivot point and stringing the elastic around that makes the joints work a little better because the path that the elastic has to travel through is the same length when the joint is posed at any angle. If that does help, then you could just build up clay to were the pin is and make new moulds with the new stringing channel.

      How devoted are you to stringing her head to toe with one length of elastic?
      It's more work, and more hassle for future owners who might want to re-string the doll, but if you put horizontal pins through the pivot points of the joints and string each section separately, you can sometimes get a better ability to hold poses that are in the middle of a movement.
      In this way the ankle to knee, for example, would be able to hold tension completely independently from the elastic from the toes to the ankle. You could use elastic bands or springs if you don't want to tie short loops of elastic, and hook them to the pins with s-hooks.
      Doing this means that the head to hips can be strung at one tension that suits the neck and torso joints best, and each part of the legs can have a tension better suited to them. This prevents dolls from "kicking" or joints that go from all the way bent to all the way straight but wont hold a pose in the middle.


      If the stringing channels are already just right and it is just that the weight of the doll is too heavy for the joints, glueing something into the sockets to add friction might make a difference, if you haven't already tried that by now, as you mentioned hot gluing. Wiring through the joints would possibly solve all your problems, and I wouldn't say it was trickery, but if you aren't happy doing it you should definitely try other possible solutions. Is there any chance the torso parts could be cast more hollow so that they weigh a little less?


      She's been amazing to watch progress so far and both forms look really good, I'd hate to see you make a compromise when you've put this much effort in. I love how you've worked out and overcome problems in the past, I'm sure there must be some trick to get this part sorted. The method you've used to make the eyes is really interesting, and the results are very nice, I like that they have the same base pattern so that they're the same eye, but shaped differently dependent on whether it's fox or human form.
       
    18. Thank you so much for you intricate reply!
      That stringing-per-part idea is great. I'm not sure if it will work for Seraphim/Neva, but it's a possible solution I haven't thought about yet and if not for this doll, it might prove useful for a future one.
      I think the main problem is the weight, though. That's what you get for wanting curves xD
      I could perhaps make the chest and belly a tiny bit lighter, but there's also the problem with moulding: If I'd make the boobs hollow, for instance, that would result in two blob shapes sticking out of the "inside" part of the mould that would be very hard to get out of the cast piece without tearing.
      The butt I can't make any lighter/thinner, as it needs to support the tail (which is already a fragile connection) and she needs it to stay put when sitting.

      I'll try wiring first, as that seems the simplest solution. I'm kinda disappointed I can't make her squat/ pretend to walk on her own, though. I know there aren't many dolls who can, but I'd like to bring some improvement to the market, you know? I really hoped I could at least out-joint/ out-balance Soom xD

      Another thing I thought of, but I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble compared to how well it will work: A knee lock... On the backside. A little (magnetic?) puzzle piece that sits at the back of the knee joint, supporting the upper legs.
      Basically, this (dots used to keep everything in place, blue is the lock part, pretend it's a triangle filling up the back):
      \
      ..\
      ..|\
      ..|/
      ../
      /

      I'll need to put a little lock in the hips for the right angle, and the weight might still prove too much for the ankle to handle, forcing the lower leg to pop out of the lock and tip over... But maybe it's worth a try? It would look silly from the side, of course, unless you cover it up with clothes... But seen from the front it would be invisible, and seen from behind you could paint/ shade it in such a way that the difference in dept doesn't show up in pictures...

      Thanks for your kind comment on the eyes by the way :D That "same base pattern" was the exact problem I ran into when searching for eyes at dealers... I couldn't find fox eyes and human eyes in the same colour, let alone the same pattern.
      Want it done well, do it yourself. Downside is that sometimes it feels like re-inventing the same wheel over and over again, though... Like with joints... -.-"
       
    19. Before you change any original sculpts, try hot glue suedeing! I've got one doll so far that I've taken from clay master to resin cast, and I was initially so disappointed - my resin cast couldn't even hold the same poses as my original, let alone pose better (as I'd hoped, based on being able to string tighter). Then I tested hot glue suedeing (thankfully before altering my clay master), and it solved all my problems. Now my resin casts can pose exactly as well as I'd hoped they'd be able to (significantly better than the clay master). Including a tricky balancing pose that just straight up wouldn't be possible without the added friction holding the hips in place.

      Hot glue suedeing takes barely any time and is super easy (you can use the nozzle of the gun to remelt any 'globs' of glue - I don't even need to wipe the glue with my finger or anything to spread it thinly). You can advertise your dolls with hot glue suedeing included, and offer an option of not having it, with a warning that not all poses are possible without it. That way, the awesome posing ability is 'standard' and you can use photos including them without worrying that it's misleading.

      Just make sure you warn buyers that hot glue can discolour with time, and that it's just dirt collecting on the glue. They can try washing it with soap and (lukewarm) water, or you can include instructions for replacing it entirely.

      After seeing what a difference hot glue suedeing makes with posing, I actually wish more companies offered it stock.
       
    20. I see what you mean about the chest piece, I've only worked in porcelain and wax casting, so I'd overlooked the internal undercuts. When I got my first resin doll I was surprised by how heavy and thick the parts were, but that was before I'd seen how cores are done for silicone mould making, it's not even a consideration in porcelain.


      It would be good if you did make it magnetic, so that the pieces could be removed and stored away when not in fox pose, in the head cap maybe, so that everything is still together, but out of sight.
      The drawing also has got me thinking about the Thomas Edison chair leg thing (that I saw in the Simpsons), where a hinged leg/wedge comes out to stop a chair from toppling over when you lean back. I don't know if a pop out or hinged lock would be viable on any doll, but I can't stop thinking about it now. I definitely think a magnetic lock would work, and I think that wiring is a legitimate option. So few dolls are engineered well enough that they pose flawlessly without wire or suede, it seems widely accepted in the hobby that you can't have all the poses and all the aesthetics.

      Could you post pictures of how the knee and ankle locks currently are, resting and in use?

      The nice thing about doing it yourself, is that you might not get it perfect the first time and it might take up a lot of your time, but when you do finally get there you feel really good about it. :D
       
    21. I am familiar with hot-glue, my Unoa Lusis had "crazy" arms (limbs that flip between extremities, like completely stretched and completely folded, without maintaining any position in between), and when a friend of mine hot-glued her the problem was solved.
      I might try that, but I'll try wiring first: the doll I am currently making these changes to is the master cast (sanded and adjusted junk cast - some things like nails would be too fragile on the original), so I'd need to make another junk cast to test the hot glue.

      Your comments make me feel a lot better about "cheating", thanks you guys. I wish the joints would be capable of everything I want on their own xD I KNOW it's not the fault of the joints... It's the fault of her big butt (and other big parts) :P
      I mean, if you take the legs apart and stack all the pieces on top of each other, they still stay in place. With a balance like that you'd expect the doll to pose every way you want...
      Grrr.
       
    22. Oh THAT is a brilliant idea! I'm not sure if both of them will fit in the fox head, but in the human head they just might...

      I'll try to take pictures later today.
      Oh and thanks for the Simpsons thing xD It's now stuck in my head too, and merged with Grandpa Simpson's walking stick...
      I don't think it would look good on a doll when it's a dangling, loose thing, but pop-out reinforcements are actually a genius idea.
      You could hide it in a limb, with a hinge on one end and a magnet on the other. A little gap/ ridge to put your nail in to pop it out...
      If a magnetic knee block works, I might actually try that... At least I'll write it down in my list of possible solutions.
       
      #142 Puppit, Feb 13, 2014
      Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2014
    23. Holy shit guys, wiring did the trick!
      Look at that!
      [​IMG]

      Still can't get her to maintain "fox stance", and that probably wouldn't work with additional locks to hips/ankles/knees either: It's simply the weight.

      I still need to test if that would work with the tail as a tripod... But if not I will probably remove the ankle locks she has now to allow greater mobility there, so she can sit like a fox, with feet flat and knees pulled up. At least she can "walk".
      I'm so happy this works! I might try hot-glueing as well once I've got the master moulds, to see if the extra friction can replace the wiring... But at least I don't have to change anything to the original doll to get her to pose the way I want to.

      Better pictures, with tail, will follow later. Next week probably. Right now, I'm too busy being ecstatic! :love
       
    24. Congratulations! She looks SO good! This is so exciting even for me. I can't imagine how you must feel.
       
    25. Wow!
      Balancing like that with almost all the weight on one foot shows real mastery of balance on your part. I'm not surprised you're ecstatic, she's fantastic, I think this is the first time I've seen how smooth the silhouette of her back is too. She really is lovely, I cant wait for more pictures, she seems so close to completion.
       
    26. Thanks you guys! Your encouragements really mean a lot to me.

      As promised, a better picture of Seraphim/Neva standing with a bent leg.
      The full "fox pose" (half-squat, like a fox sneaking) didn't work, even with support from the tail. She either sinks through her knees or tips over at the balls of her feet.

      Oh well, at least she can pretend to walk... And look super sassy. "Moi? Standing? Piece of cake."
      Yeah, piece of cake... Took me over two hours of cursing and begging, with two infuriating moments where she seemed to stand solid enough, only to slowly fall over when I turned on my camera... Until I wired her hips (before, only her legs were wired). Then she stood firmly within 5 minutes. The little smartass.

      [​IMG]
      A full-sized picture can be found at my Deviantart account, here.
       
    27. Oh, I love her personality! Sassy is exactly the right word for it - and elegant as well, especially those gorgeous long hands and feet.

      I am amazed and following your progress with much interest - one of the dolls I plan to do eventually has a similar leg joint, and I can see just how frustrating (and rewarding) that will be to get right. :)
       
    28. Thank you so much :)
      Which leg joint do you mean? Or more like, the whole of the leg, animal legs, standing on his/her toes?
      I'm a bit of a selfish member at the moment (busy busy busy), but as soon as this doll is finished I promise to browse around the forum some more and help other people out if I can. In the meantime I hope my W.I.P topic inspires people struggling with the same construction problems... So if you are stuck, feel free to ask for help and I'll see what I can come up with :)
       
    29. Just sort of a similar leg type arrangement - animal-type leg where the ankle functions more like a backwards knee and the foot is elongated and stands on the toes... And not standing upright, but always hunched. Like this.

      I think we all go through periods where we're focused entirely on our own work, and other periods where we can open up our brain space enough to reach out to others. It's the nature of an artist forum - just seeing the ways you've approached various issues (the hot glue sueding as standard really is a great idea - I'm beginning to realize that great joint design can only go so far sometimes when you start getting into exotic poses/shapes/gravity) is incredibly inspiring and interesting. :) Keep up the amazing work! :D
       
    30. Ah, yes, those hunched legs is what I referred to as "fox position". If your doll should be permanently hunched, it's not a problem (look at the link to the Soom Breccia I posted earlier), but if you also want him to be able to stretch them, you'll run into the same trouble I did... Strength vs. flexibility. At least when your doll is a big one. A smaller, lighter doll is much easier to pose in this case.

      I only just noticed you're from the Netherlands as well, may I ask if you're also on the Dutch BJDcafé? And if so, under which name?
       
      #150 Puppit, Feb 18, 2014
      Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2014
    31. Ahhh, yeah, the Soom Breccia does look very similar in stance. And yeah, weight would definitely be the issue - getting everything to lock together in those kind of extreme angles is a real pain - the closer a doll is to a solid vertical pillar, the better for standing, it seems.

      I am on BJD Cafe, under the same name as here. I don't post a lot, though I really should as it helps me learn more Dutch. :)
       
    32. Jup. I like my dolls to be extremely flexible, that's why it's so hard to make Seraphim/Neva stand properly xD
      Good luck on yours!
      I'm on the BJDcafé under the same name as well, perhaps I'll see you there :)
       
    33. "There is always something."
      Great words by an inventor, meaning that there is always something you can do, always a solution. But it could also mean that there is always something that needs to be worked on, always a problem.

      Now that I've finally managed to make eyes, finally managed to make Seraphim/Neva stand with a bent leg, finally nearing the end... There is another "something". AGAIN.

      I am starting to seriously reconsider whether casting all dolls myself is worth the trouble. I mainly made that choice because I was terrified to sent the original to a company I've never even been to, and because I know I'm an excellent mould-maker (and making moulds should be harder than just the casting).
      I thought using faster curing resin would solve the problem, and it has certainly IMPROVED the casting... But the air moisture is still giving me trouble, and even a vacuum machine doesn't seem to help to reduce the champagne-like bubbles that keep popping op as a result.

      I've got good moulds, but not good weather. This doll is fighting me every step of the way and I am really down to my last breath here. Both money and patience are running out after two years of development.

      But at least I've got a master cast now (well, almost, still need to adjust the ankle lock). What do you think? Should I try sending over a part to a casting company to try? Or have I come too far to give up now?


      Edit: Pictures.
      Headcap was cast with smooth cast 300, with a vacuum machine.
      Look at that insane foam!
      Both ears were cast in this resin too. The one on the right WITH vacuum, the one on the left without. Are you f*cking kidding me?!

      [​IMG]

      Fox head I cast today, same resin, no vacuum:
      [​IMG]

      Red ink to mark the bubbles (the ones on the snout are weird, I never had bubbles there before, so that might be a one-time thing, but it's still a huge waste of resin that I can't afford to have with every doll I'm casting).
      [​IMG]

      Bigger pictures can be found on my Deviantart: http://puppitproductions.deviantart.com/
       
      #153 Puppit, Feb 25, 2014
      Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2014
    34. Oh man that's awful, Puppit! What a mess of bubbles! And that ear, good lord! It's so bubbly it looks like it grew mold.

      I wonder if some sort of dehumidifier wouldn't work for you? Not the kind that's just a bunch of crystals (which is all I've ever been able to find here when I've looked which is WEIRD because it rains here about as much as when I lived in an actual rainforest!) but one of the plug-in kinds that have a tank to empty?

      At least it's soooooorta starting to dry out weather-wise lately...
       
    35. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking into now. I hope to find someone who has them in their home so I can try it out... Or maybe I can find someone with a temp-and-moist-controlled wine closet or something...
      I though of using those little crystal-things in a box or something, but I'd still have to open the box while casting... I don't think those thingies will respond quick enough after the box is closed again to have an effect...
       
    36. The last few weeks have been a huge struggle, with many endeavours, none of which were rewarded.
      So here's a little summary.

      Couldn’t find a de-humidifier to try out. No-one of my relatives or friends (or anybody in their circle) had one. Even the lab at the university couldn't help me.
      Blow-drying the mould (before and/or during) didn't help either.
      Tried vibrating the mould while the resin was curing. No noticeable difference in results.
      Tried triple de-gassing (you'd think that even if humidity is the problem, simply having NO air would be the solution): de-gas separate components, de-gas mixture, de-gas mould. Didn't help. This was with the slower curing resin (12 minute pod life, 30 minutes de-mould time), the fast one would have cured before I could fill the mould.
      Tried pouring the resin into the mould in a thin stream, over a spatula, to give it as much opportunity as possible to lose any trapped bubbles (even AFTER de-gassing the components AND the mixture). Seemed to help a teensy weensy bit, but not nearly enough.
      Tried a different resin: Same problem. At first I thought it succeeded, but the bubbles were only less apparent because the natural colour of this resin was darker.

      Nothing seems to be wrong with the mould: Everybody (this includes experts: people from the university making industrial prototypes) says it looks perfect. Enough air channels, well closed off, smooth surface, perfect detail... And I can't really imagine the silicone being the problem. Like, resin would only work when used with silicone sold by the same company. That would be ridiculous, right?

      I pretty much lost it that day. Spent the entire afternoon in a near suicidal state. And gave up.
      ...
      Did I say I give up? Of course I'm not giving up. I just gave up that one day. And a bit of the next. And there might be some random outbursts of crying to come every now and then for the few days.
      But there are plenty of people casting dolls in this material so it MUST. BE. POSSIBLE. And I'm going to find out how. I've done everything by the book (and plenty of stuff outside of it, too) and things are still going wrong.

      The plan for now:
      *Bother anybody and anyone who might know a solution.*
      This means I'm going to roam the internet fora, e-mail artists and casting companies, barge in at toy- and prototype manufacturers and tell all of them what I've been doing, with which materials, in which way, and how it keeps going wrong. Hopefully (-.-' knock on wood), one of them can pinpoint the weakest link and offer a solution.

      *Try the fast-curing resin one more time*
      Fact is that this is the one giving me the least trouble. I still have some.

      *Do something else*
      While waiting for people to reply, I'm pretty much stuck on Seraphim/Neva. I could continue on the box or the clothes or something, but it's probably a better idea to distance myself a bit and focus on some other stuff.
      So I'll tidy up my workspace, do a bit of spring cleaning and pay some attention to my other dolls. Ala could use a new dress. Noa needs re-blushing. I still have two more Monster High customs to make, and Jack is still a girl. Without eyes.

      I might go on a bit of a hiatus here until I've found a way to realize a cast Seraphim and Neva, but I'll keep you updated on any changes.
       
    37. Ahhh, geez, Puppit. I am so sorry you're having such issues! *HUGS* I totally understand you being so upset - your girl is so amazing, and to get this far and be completely stuck by such a stupid issue. :(

      If you're still at it in a month or two, I should have a de-humidified room available. Dunno where you are and if that'd be feasible for you (I'm in Hilversum), but I'm planning on getting one of the decently-sized plug-in kind through Amazon, and my studio is... well, not really finished at the moment, it'll at least not have a big hole in the wall then...
       
    38. Awww that's so kind, thank you! I'm afraid I live quite a bit away from you though (Enschede)... But if I still haven't found a solution by then I'd be glad to come over for a day to check it out :)
      I'll go bother people in the neighborhood and over the internet first :P
       
    39. Sorry to butt in, and really sorry if you've already tried this, but have you tried microwaving the molds to heat them up just before pouring? We did this in my Smooth-On mold making seminar, and it did help my problem.
       
    40. Microwaving o.0 No, I haven't... I've heated them with a blow dryer beforehand and while curing, and that didn't seem to help... But you never know... Do you recall what resin you were using during that seminar?
       
    41. Yes, we were using Smooth-Cast 300 cast into Oomoo silicone. The really basic, beginner stuff. But the results were great, with very little frustration. Best wishes in your endeavor! I love your work and I think it's extremely admirable to master the casting process.
       
    42. I don't have Oomoo silicone (I think... Not sure of the brand, I got it through the art academy since that saves shipping fees... It's a semi-translucent white with a pot life of about 20 minutes and a curing time of about 6 hours),
      but I still have some SC 300 left. Worth a shot, I suppose. If that solves the problem I'm gonna lose it (in a positive, but quite maniacal way)...

      Just up front, right? (I can't imagine microwaving curing resin would be a good idea xD)
       
      #162 Puppit, Mar 25, 2014
      Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2014
    43. Yep! Just the mold itself before you pour the resin. Oomoo is the lavender/pink stuff. As I recall we heated it for about one minute, though it may have been more. And then we sprinkled baby powder in the mold as a release/surface tension breaker.
       
    44. The baby powder is probably not a good idea for me, since it would surely get stuck in the tiny fur details... It might work for the snow fox, but would probably mess up a coloured version. But I'll try the microwaving, thanks!
       
    45. IT WORKED.
      The talc powder (baby powder). I didn't think it would, but it did. I'll still need to switch resin, though.
      But I managed to cast two perfectly sell-able versions of the most troublesome part of the doll: The fox headcap.

      I'm just gonna copy-paste Deviantart here, as I don't feel like typing the whole story again...

      After almost a month of absence, I am hereby hesitantly an very carefully (please don't jinx it, please don't jinx it!) stating that I might probably have found a solution to the bubble problem, that even a vacuum chamber didn't seem to solve.

      It was indeed, as I guessed, humidity: But only ONE of the two components was affected by it, which is why results were so unstable: A drop more or less could alter the outcome significantly.
      Another reason things didn't work out is because the vacuum machine I used before is probably just not strong enough. Good enough for open moulds, probably, but not for this level of detail... BJD casting has a quality standard that is nearly impossible to reach, way higher than that of most polyurethane products.

      But luckily, there seems to be a low budget solution. I heard about this before but was sceptic to try it, because I was afraid it would leave a misty white hue or clog up tiny details: Talc powder.
      This stuff absorbs moisture and sort of "sucks" the resin into the smallest corners of the mould, while dealing with the humidity problem.
      Just brush a little inside the mould, tapping off any excess... And casting results immediately improved.
      I still need to switch resins, though: Smooth-Cast apparently tends to be particularly sensitive to humidity, and I also have the idea it yellows pretty fast.
      I tried a more industrial polyurethane resin (less available to the common public), which is harder, a bit more transparent and though not purely white, can be coloured just as easily.
      The result was so much better (and the customer service too!), that Smooth-Cast is now officially out of the picture. I will probably still use it for prop-making (such as my doll-sized gameboys), but I deemed it not good enough for my doll.

      Tests with colouring will follow, I hope it doesn't screw up the humidity-balance.
      I might test some other resins as well, but for now, Axson F16 is by far the best I've tried.
      If it all works, I still need to re-mould some parts (haven't moulded the hands yet, now that they have nails, and I butchered the headcap mould with all this testing)... But then, production is go! :D


      Link to a large comparison shot on Deviantart, so I don't mess up the screen proportions of the forum (a small shot would be useless, you need to zoom in):
      *Clicky*

      Two pictures who were more suitable to shrink down a bit:
      [​IMG]
      Left without and right with talc powder. Both are full of bubbles (this is the 305 resin), but the difference is still pretty clear. The fur on the right appears much more smooth and solid.

      Headcap in the new Axson resin (with air channels and everything still attached):
      [​IMG]
      Bigger version here, on Deviantart

      A great big thanks to everybody who answered my call for information, as well as all the encouragements!
       
      #165 Puppit, May 2, 2014
      Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2014
    46. Colour casting test!
      I should apply the talc powder even thinner (though I thought I did it pretty thin already), because it leaves a bit of a white misty hue here and there... But other than that, this is great!
      This won't be Seraphim's actual colour yet, I just tried to get as close as possible with some random drops of colour... I haven't established a new "recipe" for this new resin yet.

      [​IMG]

      But look at that detail! :D

      Eye is also made by me, by the way (yes it's just one, also a try-out).
       
    47. Oh wow that is fabulous! I'm so happy for you, having resolved your bubbling issues and even getting into colours now! You give me hope for my own doll. :)
       
    48. Does the baby powder trapped inside the resin or it just stay around the doll part and can be wiped? Interesting that it can solve your problem.

      Though my project won't be detailed as yours, I'm looking forward your WIP for future reference :)
       
    49. It stays at the wall of the mould and absorbs the resin, taking out any excess moisture and "sucking" the resin into the tiniest nooks and crannies. If it's applied thinly enough, you won't see a thing because it absorbed the resin mixture (including colour) completey. If the layer is too thick, the most outside powder won't absorb the resin fully (blocked by the powder in front of it), and gets stuck and stays white(r).
      Applied even thicker, the most outside powder can be brushed off because it hasn't absorbed any resin at all, but you'll still have that bit of powder that could absorb enough too get stuck, but not enough to get the same colour.
      Of course, this is more apparent when casting dark skin tones.

      This can't be washed/brushed off (though if your cast is smooth and not furry like mine, a light sanding should do the trick).
      But it becomes transparent when wet, so a clear layer of coating should also help (haven't tested it with MSC yet, but regular lacquer worked).

      So the trick is to apply it reeeeeally thin. After tapping the excess powder out, I use a clean brush to get some more out, but as you can see, I need to be even more thorough as some still got stuck in lowest bit of the mould (the tip of the snout).

      The powder also lengthens the life-span of your mould, by the way, as it also functions as a release agent.


      Thanks! Good luck on your doll :)
       
      #169 Puppit, May 11, 2014
      Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2014
    50. Okay, thanks for the nice explanation. Probably will try for the junk cast and if I can do the trick, that's mean I found a quite cheap release agent ;)
       
    51. Keep in mind I only tried this with polyurethane resin (which is the customary resin for dolls), I'm not sure what it does should you try another kind of resin, like epoxy or ABS. Good luck!
       
    52. Every friggin' time... *insert soundless anger attack*
      There are bubbles. Only in the colour casts: the clear one is still perfect, and so are the light coloured ones... But the amount of pigments needed to create the dark tan firefox colour upsets the balance of the resin.
      I didn't notice it until I started casting smooth surfaces: because of the furry texture, colour differences (due to bubbles below the surface) aren't that noticeable. It was only when I cast an upper leg that I saw it, and when I sanded, thousands of tiny bubbles were found.
      Gahhhhh :(
      Looking for a solution for that...

      In between I made the last adjustments to the junkcast-now-mastercast:
      Since the "fox stance" (squatted stance) proved impossible even with wiring due to the sheer weight of the doll, I decided to remove the ankle lock for that and instead opt for a "fox sit". I removed, or rather, moved the ankle lock, creating more room, so she can now bend her lower leg and foot in a 90 degrees angle.
      This also means that if necessary she can stand with her feet flat on the ground instead of on her toes. It looks ridiculous, but it can be useful for rough surfaces. After all, it's a lot of doll balancing on those tiny paws.

      Old lock in front, new lock in the back:
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]
       
    53. [​IMG]

      From left to right: Original sculpt, first mould, junkcast with adaptations, new mould, final part.

      Last week it turned out that my silicone was past its expiring date: It wouldn't cure (oh the fit I threw when I had to dig my original out of the gooey mess and ruin the beautiful embedding I spent an entire afternoon on).
      Got myself a new brand, where at least I can SEE when it's expiring: One of its components becomes stiff and thick.
      It seems to be of better quality too: though it is not as tear-resistant as the old one, it picks up on detail even better, and the orange colour makes it easier to spot dents, bubbles, tears, and when the mould is getting worn out.

      Now on to the rest! I have now the master moulds of the toes, feet, lower legs and right knee. Left knee, upper legs, hip joints and right hand are embedded and prepared to be moulded.
      At the end of this week I hope to have master moulds of everything except the torso (pelvis, belly, chest) and heads + fox ears.

      I also have new resin + pigments coming in, that will hopefully allow me to create the reddish brown of the firefox without any bubbles.

      Wish me luck! Deadlines are coming...
       
    54. Hi there. I just wanted to say that I LOVE LOVE LOVE that fox head of yours! It's to die for!! Also everything you have been going through and all solutions you've found have been soooo helpful. However I do have a question. What do you use to/ how do you make you molds when casting? I am in the middle of making my own BJD and wasn't planning on casting but I would need to eventually. Also I am incredibly impressed with your sculpting ability. STUNNING!!
       
    55. Thanks so much and welcome to the forum :)
      I use eye putty (poster buddy) to embed (close in) my parts and put them in the right position, sometimes using thin coated cardboard (your average cereal box) to bridge large gaps so I don't need to use that much eye putty and get a nice smooth surface.
      I use Lego as a "wall", to surround my embedded piece. This gives nice smooth walls and allows you to break it down bit by bit, so there is less risk of accidentally damaging the mold or shifting the position of the original by tearing the whole thing away at once. You can use the same bricks over and over, so you don't have to cut off new sheets of plastic or cardboard or whatever it is you would otherwise use for a wall. It's also an easy way to make sure the moulds of similar right and left parts are the same size (not a necessity, but it looks nicer, makes them easier to identify and you know they'll handle the same way when casting resin).
      I use silicone for my moulds, preferably a kind that can be mixed with a ratio of 1:1 because I often pour several thin layers to make sure the object is fully covered, before filling up the rest of the mold (tiny mixing cups - when you only use 30 grams or so a silicone with a mix ratio of 1:5 or something becomes heard to measure properly).
      Sometimes I put in bits of old moulds to fill up big open spaces.
      If you plan on casting resin with a pressure pot or vacuum machine, make sure your moulds are also created that way. If there are bubbles inside the mould, they can implode/ tear open/ change shape, thus ruining your results.

      The exact how and why of mould-making is a bit complicated to explain with just text as it depends entirely on the shape of the object you're moulding... And frankly I don't really feel like doing that in a W.I.P topic :P There are lots of good tutorials out there, but the difficulty is that most of them never really explain properly why a piece should be positioned in a certain way... This is hard to comprehend without letting someone handle the object (or at least have a video showing it from different sides). You need to be able to think in "negative" to know how the mold should be constructed, how it should fit together and how many parts there need to be, where the air channels and pouring point should be while taking the surface into accord (you don't want to have to carve and sand away bits of resin at things like a perfectly fitting joint or a detailed surface unless it's unavoidable). The best way to learn this is to take a little course (even if it's just a few hours) with someone who has experience with mould-making (especially making moulds of hollow parts like those of a doll - it complicates things a little bit). If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to answer them (if I can). Please use a PM to do so, unless they're directly related to my current struggles/ achievements with the fox girl, to keep the flow of progress in this topic clear for everyone.

      Keep in mind that you don't necessarily have to cast your own doll: Plenty of doll makers don't, and instead employ a casting company to do it for them. However it's probably a good idea to make at least one cast yourself: not only will this help you to further develop your sculpting skills and allow you to understand any trouble your caster might be informing you on, but it also means you won't have to ship the often very fragile original sculpt (this is one of the main reasons I tried casting myself - a fellow doll maker got her original lost in the mail. It eventually turned up again and all went well, but damn... I would have suffered a heart attack).
       
      #175 Puppit, Jun 12, 2014
      Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2014
    56. Ok thanks! and again, I would just like to say that your work is absolutely AMAZING... Like stunning.
       
    57. Just a quick update:

      -Making master moulds like a maniac;
      -Decided to go with the Axson resin for Neva for now since I can get it nearby and it's cheap, yet high quality and easy to manage (only the dark colouring needed for Seraphim is causing me trouble, light colours are fine);
      -Ordered Alumilite resin + colouring to test for Seraphim (damn that stuff is expensive but if it works it's worth it);
      -Also ordered transparent resin over there to cast eyes with;
      -Doll convention coming up in a week;
      -Managed to get a lung infection.

      I hope I can make it with a fully cast Neva. Clothes and box will have to wait, face-up probably too.
      I currently have all master moulds except the heads (will try to have those finished this weekend).
      Next week is casting, let's hope all goes well..
      I wish I could also make some new props for my convention booth to sell, but with a coughing fit every 3 minutes I know that's not going to happen.

      [​IMG]
       
    58. Pfew, some times it have been!
      My apologies for the delay in updates, but I've done little more than working my ass off, and after that little more than recovering (from both working and that lung infection). I've finally gotten to the point where I can actually be a bit active again, so I'll start off with filling you guys in on what happened.

      First of all: I have a Neva. A real, cast doll.
      It took every bit of the last days before the Dutch convention to finish her, and once I finally had all pieces cast... Disaster. Or so I thought. Several bubbles came to light while sanding seamlines and I pretty much suffered a nervous breakdown. I assembled her anyway, posted a depressed note on my WIP-thread on the Dutch forum, warning visitors not to expect too much, and left for the train with my huge suitcase.

      But the more I looked at Neva, the more trouble I had finding those bubbles that drove me to madness earlier. In the artificial light of the convention hall they were even less noticeable, and when I pointed them out to people they all looked at me like I was nuts. Two other doll makers, Enid Art and Magic Mirror were also at the convention. They both said she was completely acceptable, especially since people are a bit more lenient with "artist dolls". Turns out Enid even uses the same resin as me, and MM said she used to cast herself at first and now employs a casting company, but was thinking about casting herself again because she missed it. Even though 1 out of 3 casts is a failure, even when using a pressure pot. All this made me reconsider my self-perceived failure and decide to at least cast Neva myself: Her tan twin Seraphim might be a different case though. I haven't tested the alumilite resin yet, and mixing colours might prove such a hassle that it could be better to send her off to a casting company after all. Not Dollshe, though: I'm thinking about Mirodoll. They aren't really a casting company just yet, but I've got a contact who worked with them before and had a self-made head cast over there. The big plus is that they do custom colours and small batches: Two problems I ran into with Dollshe.

      Anyway... Pictures! I was too busy not collapsing to take any, but others did and were kind enough to send me some to use and share however/wherever I liked.
      [​IMG]

      Wearing one prototype human Neva eye and one Seraphim eye:
      [​IMG]

      Beautiful wig was made by my friend Chany of Dreaded (also known as Amber-Kyou on Deviantart).
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      The Neva fox eye had an air bubble... I still need to find a more fool-proof method to cast eyes.
      [​IMG]

      Took the moulds of the fox head, headcap and ears with me, along with two junk-casts:
      [​IMG]

      Picture of my booth, with lots of props to sell. That's me in the black shirt behind the booth, with my friend and assistant Roos next to me. Talking to Arwen (Ofbutterfliesandthings), who is the one who had a head cast over at Mirodoll.
      [​IMG]

      I'll make official production pictures later on. I'm still quite tired from the whole repetitive falling down and getting back up again from the past few months, as well as that nasty lung issue. Besides, it's too hot and humid in the Netherlands to get any proper casting done anyway. So I might tinker around a bit with Seraphim/Neva's eyes, wig options, box design and dress (I'm planning on a negligee-like dress in chiffon layers)... But I won't start casting again until august. I'll start selling Neva human heads and fox heads by then too: Those are flawless, if I get any bubbles at all, it's at the pouring point and air channels, which are at the back, at the border between headcap and face. So even if there are any, they aren't damaging to strength of the structure and with the headcap on you can't even see them. I'll put up a warning that this might not be the definite resin and colour, in case anyone wants to order the body later.
      Before the whole Neva, as well as sister Seraphim, can be cast I'll need to throw a kickstarter or reel in some full up front paying pre-orders, because I'm all out of savings... Welp, that's it for now. I'm going to derp around some and try to enjoy summer for the next two weeks, as well as re-gaining my muscle mass. I look like a friggin twig and can hardly lift my sword anymore -.-
       
    59. What an incredible journey you've had. I am so amazed at you and how you worked out so many of the mechanical issues step by step. You are a real trooper. Thanks so much for sharing. I have been wanting to try to make my own molds and cast a copy or two, but terrified at the same time. Your bravery has inspired me to not give up. I especially want to thank you for sharing the problems. They have given so much food for thought. Love your beautiful work. Just genius!
       
    60. Thanks so much for your kind words :D Support like this is what keeps me going (that, and furious stubbornness -"If I give up now that entire year of struggling will have been for naught").
      I hate admitting faults and problems, but I do it anyway since I hope it will help people running into the same shit... And also as an excuse to both myself and others as to why it is taking so long.
      Oh well. "When you do everything right the first time, people won't be sure you've done anything at all", is what they say, right?
      They also say "If it were easy, everybody would be doing it."... -.-'
      I wish you the best of luck with your doll!
       
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