Materials Pros and Cons of different sculpting materials?

Well, my friend, though nothing beats doing research yourself, I'll sort of describe my impression of things (but, you should find out for yourself!):

Air Dry Clay, LaDoll/Premier/Premix:
LaDoll is a brand of air dry clay. It is a pricey air dry clay. It seems to be the preferred brand for air dry clay sculptors, who say it has superior qualities compared to other brands (marketed as paper clays under various brand names). From experience, I can tell you now that if you want to use air dry clay you might as well use the best. Cheaper brands often have cracking problems or trouble holding detail, or be too fibrous to handle carving/sanding after it's dry. LaDoll and Premiere are made by the same company, I think? Artists often make the large forms out of LaDoll and details out of Premier. Premix is a mixture of LaDoll and Premier. Partly because the clay is so pricey, and partly to help with cracking, sculptors usually try to keep the walls of the sculpts thin. They do this by first making a core that's roughly the size and shape of the final sculpt, and then rolling out thin slabs of the clay and covering the core. Before fine details are sculpted, the sculpt is usually cut open, the core dug out, then the sculpt put back together by wetting the seams and using wet clay as glue. Then jointing and fine details are sculpted. Another way to cut cost is to use Formo for the base shell, then LaDoll/Premier/Premix over that. Formo is mostly wood pulp.

Polymer Clay, Super Sculpey:
These are hardened by baking in an oven or boiling in water. OOAK doll makers use them. I use them. I find that the pink super sculpey has trouble holding its shape: while I work on the cheek, the pressure of my hands and the tools can slowly make the chin move around. The grey super sculpey is firmer, and some people prefer it for this reason, though I can't find local carriers so I can't make comparisons until I finish up my pink SS's. You can harden the super sculpey as you sculpt to get around the features moving around problem. Boiling in water works, or you can pop it in the oven or use a heat gun (not a blow dryer, it is not hot enough). Once you've locked the features you want in place, you can work on other areas.

Oil based clays, Chavant NSP, Plastiline:
There's a huge variety of oil based clays. Chavant NSP is tough, almost like a wax, while Plastiline is very soft, like water based clays. The softer clay, I like using it to sketch because you can build up volume very easily with it. The harder clay I use for something more finalized-looking, because they hold their shapes and fine details like a dream. The hard clays are really tough on tools, though. Oil based clays never harden, so if you usually cast your sculpt in an intermediary material before a final cast, so that you can play around with jointing, make adjustments, work on the surface texture.

Wax, of which kwmelvin is our God in Residence:
There's a bit of an overlap between oil based clays and wax. There's wax in oil based clays, and plenty of oil in many types of wax. Casting in wax between say, oil clay, and your final casting is pretty useful. Wax requires some special tools to work on it. You should definitely have some way to warm the wax, such as a wax pen, an alcohol burner, etc. These tools come in handy if you work in the harder oil based clays, too. Anyway, kwmelvin is the person to search for/talk to for all things wax on our forum.

Epoxy material, Apoxie/milliput/apoxie sculpt/magic sculpt:
Epoxy is slightly water-soluble when wet, so you can smooth it with water and it feels a bit like air dry clays when you do it. After they harden, you can carve, sand, add and subtract clay. I like using a cheap epoxy for making armatures, but you can make whole sculpts out of it, but...it's a bit pricey this way. But you can use this to add detail to other material, such as over air dry clays or over cured super sculpey. Not all epoxies are created equal, however. You should go for something designed for sculpting (as opposed to plumbing epoxy) for easy handling.

Water based clay:
Cheap cheap cheap. It can be a sculpting material or a final material. There's also a water based clay with some oil mixed in to extend working time, and cannot be fired. You can also use this to make beds for molding. I mean, water clay mixtures can get complicated fast, and you should definitely find out what options are available to you before you pick a brand.


So, that's my impression of matters. I would recommend looking at some video tutorials that show what kind of armature work with the materials you're considering. Also, weigh whether having a final product quickly is more important than spending a long time in the sculpting stage. There is trade off. Super Sculpey, Air dry clays, epoxies, I find that I have to fight with the material a bit more during the sculpting. Oil clays and water based clays require a longer process to get from sculpting to final doll, but they're a dream to work with when you're just sculpting. But try things out for yourself, because I know people who feel the opposite of what I feel.

Good luck!

PS:
WAIT WAIT, I forgot: digital sculpting! It has a steep-ish learning curve like wax does, but it has things going for it. Unlimited undo! Making different versions at different stages! Precise measurements! With the state of 3d printing advacing fast, it has become possible to make pretty good prints out of your designs. But you have to be sure the design you print is *really* the one you want, as printing a full doll is still pretty costly. A 60cm doll can cost around $1,000 to print, depending on where you go, how much precision you require, what material, etc. And right now, most 3D prints still require a bit of finishing before they look ready to cast, so keep that in mind.

 

What a wonderful breakdown for us all. Thanks for you input. I have several options to use (apoxie, sculpey in several guises, oil clay), but find I am too impatient to to use the apoxie with the wait for curing. Also having frustrations with Super Sculpey losing the channels for stringing when it bakes. Does anyone know if you can do a mold from a Sculpey original and press Apoxie into it for further work on it? Now that I have everything prototype-fitting with Sculpey I think I need change all the parts into Apoxie for the rest of the work. I do hope to cast a full doll in resin later but have much to learn still.

 

You can speed up the curing of Apoxie by using a hair-dryer or a heater, or by putting it in the sun. Trying to press apoxie into a mold would be tricky as you are likely to end up with voids abd bubbles on the mold surface if air is trapped. Why not add apoxie on top of the sculpey. To maintain the channels when baking, try putting something in them that won't melt or collapse or stick to the sculpey. For example, wooden dowel wrapped in a thin sheet of paper. The clay might stick to the paper but you can still pull the dowel out, probably the paper too if careful.

 

All my parts, aside from the joint/balls, are already the right size and finish in Super Sculpey. I was looking for an easy way to convert them to Apoxie to get rid of some of the bulk and thickness. Guess I had better just bite the bullet and learn to use the Apoxie first round. It just doesn't suit my sculpting style and after 50 years it is hard to make such a big change. Lol. I am guilty of forgetting to put the support back into the channel to bake it. I was more worried about the outside shifting, so baked it in the leg. Didn't work.

BTW--I have found a little aluminum tube at the craft store that makes a great channel for arms and legs and such. It is meant to make leis on. I wrap it with a bit of foil before putting the Apoxie on and then it twists off when hard just right.

 

Janeve:
You can press super sculpey into a hard-ish mold, and then put the pieces together, either before before to make nudge adjustments, or after baking, if the parts are already just how you want them. I don't really thing apoxie is such an easy casting material...

crazy_elf:
I've seen people put ladoll over formo, but how well they stick together I do not know. If you're worried, you can smoosh a thin film of glue over your ladoll slabs when you smooth it over the formo. I've seen people mix wood glue with formo to make it tougher when dry.

I am not sure using a cheap clay over a good clay is such a good idea, crazy_elf, esp if the cheaper clay have poorer sculpting qualities. Test your clays. Usually I would put the expensive stuff over the cheap stuff... When you use two different paper clays in different layers, you should test to make sure they don't shrink at terribly different rates as they dry, or you can get cracking and peeling problems. But sometimes cracking problems are a result of the previous layer being too dry, so try to make sure your old layer is well moistened before adding new clay, even if you're just adding ladoll to ladoll.

 

Janeve, is there any reason why sculpey (which you are already used to working with) isn't suitable to continue with now? You should be able to sand and smooth and prime it if you are intending to prepare for molding and casting, or even if you are just making a one off doll. Maybe if you need to do some patching or strengthening from this point, apoxie would be better though.

 

Thanks for the suggestions! The only thing about the sculpey is that to have enough strength to withstand the stringing pressure it must be fairly thick. Since my doll is only about 46 cm, she needs some more delicate parts. Also some of the parts too thick to make nice lines even though they fit and move well(ish). I do dearly love most qualities of Super Sculpey and have been using it in making puppets for productions for many years. That is how I know the serious limits of this material. I always went to shows with emergency repair supplies for bits popping off. I am starting to think of Apoxie to do some of the armature stage and then add the Sculpey over for details. BTW--I posted some new photos today in the WIP section of my hula dancer prototype. Would love some suggestions. I do want to do a limited run for the local inter-national Hula Festival.

 

I propose that this thread be stickied, so that it never gets pushed off the first page. It's some good info that answers most of the basic questions I've had about different materials, among other beginners.

 

Great sticky!!!

I have a question about Sculpey/polymer clays. How many times can you bake it, before it's been baked too many times?

I'm sculpting in a polyclay mix (made my own version of Sculpey Gray by mixing together every miscellaneous color and dried-out brick I had!). If I could without ruining my sculpt, I would bake some parts of some pieces 8 or 10 times... as I add, bake, carve, then add some more. I should mention that this is a prototype/pattern for what will eventually be a porcelain BJD.

Would that be a problem, or will the most-often-baked areas degrade? I'm doing a test, baking a piece each time I pop some part in the oven... but maybe someone already knows the answer?

 

baking polymer clays multiple times

When polymer clays are baked, the volatile plasticizers in the material evaporate, and the remaining polymers fuse together into a hard plastic. Polymer clays may have new polymer clay added to already baked polymer clay, then be baked again to cure the new clay that was added. The most important thing is to not go over the manufacturer's recommended baking temperature, and to bake the polymer clay the recommended time.

It is also recommended to check your oven with an independent oven thermometer, to make absolutely sure that your oven is baking at the temperature that the oven dial indicates. For example, using an independent oven thermometer, I found out that my large, kitchen oven is 25 degrees hotter than the oven dial setting. On the other hand, using the same independent oven thermometer, I found that my small toaster oven is 25 degrees cooler than the oven dial setting. My polymer clay cures at 275 degrees Fahrenheit, for 30 minutes. In the toaster oven I have to set the dial at 300 degrees to get 275 degrees. If I baked the polymer clay in the big kitchen oven, I would have to set the oven dial at 250 degrees.

Most failures with polymer clay come from not baking it at the proper temperature for the required time. I always set a timer for 30 minutes when I bake my polymer clay in the toaster oven. I set the timer when the heating elements turn off the first time, which means the oven has attained the temperature I set it at.

One other thing that *I* do when baking polymer clay is I make an aluminum foil tent for the piece, and bake it inside the tent. The tent is really just a tube of aluminum foil, open at both ends. It protects the polymer from the intensity of the toaster oven heating elements when they turn on and off. Those elements are much closer to the polymer clay pieces I am baking, than in the big kitchen oven. I rarely use the big kitchen oven for baking polymer clay. Too much real estate for the very small pieces I usually make and bake. The toaster oven I have is ancient, with electric heating elements inside that glow when they come on. I do not know anything about the new convection toaster ovens, so I cannot comment on those at all.

So far, I have not had any problems baking my polymer clay multiple times. The polymer clay neither scorches, nor degrades with multiple bakings. I have tested my ovens with an independent oven thermometer, and I adjust the oven dial so that I am baking the polymer clay at the proper temperature each time I bake it. Also, I bake the polymer clay for the recommended time period, each time I bake it. I use an aluminum foil tent around my pieces when baking them, for added protection from the close proximity of the toaster oven heating elements. I rarely (never) bake anything over one fourth inch in thickness. If it needs to be thicker than one-fourth of an inch, I just add another layer, and bake again. One fourth of an inch is the maximum thickness I bake at any one time. I always bake at 275 degrees F. for 30 minutes.

I am using an ancient box of POLYFORM modeling compound that I purchased years ago (at $7.99 for 2 pounds). So far, I have used about one pound and a half, over all these years. I bake it at 275 degrees F. for 30 minutes at a time. One more thing I do, that I have not mentioned yet: When my timer goes off, I turn off the toaster oven, and leave the pieces in the oven until the oven cools. I do not know if this helps, or not, but that is what I do. So far, I have not gotten any moonies, or whatever they call the blemishes on cured polymer clay that many people complain about?

As for mixing different polymer clays together? I do not have a clue what the proper curing temperature is for such a mixture, nor how much time it should be baked at in order to properly cure? You should probably make some small test tiles, and see what happens with them?

Hopefully helpful?
(^_^)

 

Thanks, kwmelman! I have already baked quite a few pieces, and I think I've got the temperature right for my mix. Based on Mark Dennis' advice in his book "The Human Figure In Clay", I am baking my oddball mixture at 275 degrees Fahrenheit for 20 to 30 minutes, depending on its thickness, and it seems to be curing well. I don't have a toaster oven, so I'm just using my home oven, with a separate thermometer (as my oven can run a little slow at times).

I will try baking the same piece 10 times and see whether or how it degrades. Perhaps I will bake 10 test pieces, then bake 9 of them a 2nd time, 8 a 3rd time, and so on until the last one has been baked 10 times. Hmmm...

 

You're welcome. The important things to note are to bake the polymer clay at the proper temperature for the proper time. Since you are using polymer clay as your primary modeling material, in order to make molds for porcelain slip casting, then the only requirement for your pieces is that they are strong enough to test string, before using them as models for making the molds.

You may need to start a notebook for your experiments? So few people do. It sure would help all of us, as a community, if more people would?

Yeah, right.
(^_^)

 

Yes, kwmelvin, I was planning on posting my results here. Unfortunately, my experiment's results may not necessarily apply to all brands, considering the polymer clay mix I'm using is unique (and I couldn't replicate it -- it contains Super Sculpey, Sculpey III, Fimo, Prosculpt, and Cernit, in unknown ratios). I understand that some doll artists who use polymer clay to make their final works are accustomed to mixing brands together, so in some circles it's an accepted practice.

I believe these pieces will stand up to test stringing with pins and springs. I have made quite a few one-of-a-kind BJDs from La Doll and La Doll/Premier mixes, and those materials aren't as strong as cured polymer clay. I already did a very rough (and loose) test stringing using elastic, and it seemed fine.

 

Good quality sculpting materials is what will set you up either for great success or for an equally great failure. In retrospect for my first project I chose the wrong materials and hence it was never finished.

I started out with air-dry clay called Jovi, because it's reasonably priced and available from most craft shops where I live (London). It's not a bad clay (blue when wet, but dries white), but now that I've tried La Doll, let me tell you I won't be touching Jovi again. My biggest problem with it was that it was too hard when dry (perhaps an excellent quality for OOAK doll), so sanding, cutting and reworking details was a nightmare. Also it's sticks to your hands a lot more than La Doll, and I had to constantly wash my hands and tools, which made my hands so dry I couldn't stand it any longer. Also Jovi gets too wet too quickly and sometimes when you are working on fine details (like eyes) it's too mushy and causes problems. So it's better to carve those details after drying rather than sculpt them right away. It depends on the working style and perhaps this would suit someone better than me. La Doll clings to hands and tools a lot less and feels a lot more pleasant to the touch. To me personally it feels a little bit like plasticine.

I would recommend Jovi for OOAK, because it would be a more hard-wearing material, but if you just need the 'model' for casting... Spend the buck and save yourself a hell of a lot of time with La Doll.

I've always thought that DAS and Jovi are the same sort of thing, but I've read (never tried DAS) that DAS and La Doll don't mix. No such problem with Jovi, so obviously all these air-dry clays are very different. When I took up my project again I brushed La Doll (La Doll mixed with water into a toothpaste consistency) over my almost finished Jovi head, so I could sand it to a fine surface and finish off the details.

Super Sculpey didn't agree with me either. Again, it seems difficult and too stiff to work when it's been baked and when it's not I kept on skewing the features because it was too soft.

It's best to try out different materials to find out what your work style is and what material would suit it best.

 

FYI, I have posted everything I learned in 30 years of using FIMO here
Of course, most of this info applies to Sculpey and Cernit as well.

 

Just wanted to add a quick note. If your working with softer air dry paperclay, like DAS then a nail file or three will be your best friend.

 

Why is a nail file a useful tool in that situation Pinkitty? Just for filing after the clay has cured?

 

Yes and you can use it to shape a rough sculpt when it's dry. Also if you can get (from the dollar store or something) one of those four sided nail files that are disposable then they have many different grits so you don't end up having to buy many different sandpapers. At least that was one of the most useful tools for me, I was hoping that by sharing that tidbit of info someone else might find it useful. Thanks for your question. :3

 

Hey everyone just a question. What would you say is the strongest, toughest, most resilient sculpting material?

 

I'd say epoxy.

 

Thank you I'll look into it. I've had a lot of problems with other clays breaking, shattering or crumbling.

 

Greetings everyone! I'm just starting out and a little while ago bought some Polyform Air Dry Clay (White) on super clearance for this project. Has anyone used this brand before for BJD sculpting? Does it... work well?

 

aaa
i am new here, and so.
i am wondering if sculpey III is worth using? i have been using fimo clay for as long as i can remember... and the one time i used sculpey a few years ago, my tiny little sculptures broke and the paint flaked off. >:O!! however, this was a pound box of regular ol' sculpey, and i don't know how sculpey III will act... and how it compares to fimo.
it's just that sculpey III is cheaper than fimo, howwlllll...

 

Sculpey 3 is better than original sculpey imo, but if you want something even stronger super sculpey is even better but it only comes in beige. There's and even stronger sculpey beyond that called super sculpey firm, but I've never tried it, also it only comes in gray.

 

aaaa. thanks for the reply.
i'm up for working in any colour, i suppose... it's just that with fimo and sculpey III, of course, there are the many different colours to choose from. XD