Negative Feedback Problem transaction with Minerva

Hello DoA community,

I am super pissed about this first problem transaction on Den of Angels. I was trying to be calm and not to start any problem transaction thread, but Minerva was not replying to my message on 9 May 2016 (HKT) on DOA. And today I logged into my Paypal account and she secretly raised a claim on Paypal on 12 May 2016 (HKT).

Kindly attached some photos about this problem transaction. All personal information has been removed.

Her messages sound like she is accusing me to be the cause of the damage that was found on the doll after she has received it, and she seems to try to talk me into refunding her for this. But since I have not done anything that could have caused this damage nor have caused it indirectly, thus I don’t think I am responsible for the refund. Also because of her attitude in her replies, I believe I can only start a problem transaction thread. Following are the details of the whole incident.


The buyer, Minerva, contacted me and said she was interested in it. We agreed with the transaction after I double checked with her about Chalco’s status which it was not a brand new doll and it had a chipped part at the back of the knee part that had already been fixed. I shipped the doll on 28th April 2016 (HKT) which was later than expected due to bad local weather.


Minerva received the doll on 2nd May 2016 (local time in Lombard, US) and she sent me 2 pictures of a broken part of the doll. This is the only broken part of the doll.





I was super shocked and asked her if she had contacted her local EMS delivery office immediately as the package was fully insured. Then she came back to me and said the post office refused the claim due to "insufficient" packaging. If the post office said they are not accepting the insurance claim but did they give she the form to fill in to request for a claim for an international package? And I am not sure if the Customs opened the package or not.

So I asked her about whether she had more photos of the doll and the box before she had entirely unpacked the doll which could be shown to the post office for the refund.

She sent me photos of the exterior box (from Soom) with some crumpled box edges and an obvious hole which was absent before the doll was shipped. She also sent me some pictures of the crumble edges of the GEM official box with the full set of Chalco inside (without cushion which is clearly written in the “Included in sale” in the selling thread). She said the GEM official box was damaged which I could only see from the photos that the edges were slightly crumbled.

She said the exterior box was damaged but she still signed the package and now come back to me and claimed that because the exterior box is damaged so the dolls has not been packed properly?



(I hid the address and contact details of both of us)




I questioned in my mind about how the doll would receive such damage as I have never seen a breakage like this before. Neither have I received any feedbacks about issues like this for all of the previous dolls that I’ve sold. Chalco and all the extra parts were wrapped with a lot of bubble sheets to make sure everything were secured in the box. Each leg was wrapped with bubble sheets individually, and tape was used to secure the 2 legs together in order to prevent the legs crushing with each other which could have resulted in damage of the resin surface. I also put extra bubble sheets at the bottom of the GEM official box. (Please view the 1st photo of this thread. It was the photo she sent but you could still see the body was still wrapped with thick bubble sheets).


So I showed the photos that I received from Minerva to some of my friends (who are Soom owners) and discussed my doubt with them about why and how the resin part that linked with the foot could have broken.

I have never seen a breakage like this before neither have I received any feedback about issues like this for all of the previous dolls that I have sold. Chalco and all the extra parts were wrapped with thick bubble sheets to make sure everything were secured in the box. Each leg was wrapped with bubble sheets individually, and tape was used to secure the 2 legs together in order to prevent the legs crushing with each other which could have resulted in damage of the resin surface. I also put extra bubble sheets at the bottom of the GEM official box.

If the doll was not packed in a proper way, otherwise the ball-shaped ankle resin part and the foot should have been broken into pieces during transition. Or other easily exposed body parts such as the ball-shaped resin/ the fingers or other resin products included such as the mask should have received similar level of damage too if the box had indeed been careless treated during transition.

My friends and I have talked about a lot of people usually concern about the fingers or the additional parts of Soom dolls might be broken in transit. But based on Minerva’s reply, only the S-hook attachment part inside the foot was damaged. She said the exterior box was damaged but she still signed the package and now she comes back to me and claimed that the doll has not been packed properly.

I am very very upset about Chalco’s damage and I was the one who was asking for more photos to see if the photos might help Minerva to claim the insurance from the post office. Since I don’t know how to claim a refund from the post office in the US, my friend shared her experience about her lost package – the local post office should give international package receivers a form with a phone number (which specifically takes care of international packages) and details about claiming these packages. But after I’ve asked different photos from Minerva, she only came back to me with this message:




I am very frustrated about what she said about the doll was not packaged in a proper way. The photos she sent me with the remaining parts of Chalco were still wrapped in very thick bubble sheet. My BJD friends and I have been using this method to ship dolls for many years and I have never seen and received feedbacks of any similar damage like this. And Minerva kept saying those crumpled edges of the paper box was a “damage”. Her latest message makes me really concern that she’s trying to ask me for a refund for something that I have not done. The above photo is a screencap of her message and apart from the accusation, her attitude makes me feel like I am belittled and also not being trusted like I am a liar.

I know there’s a lot of information included here but I’ve tried my best to explain why I don’t feel like she’s in the right position to ask me for a refund.

Also, her action makes me suspect that she is simply trying to get extra money out of me because I can’t help to think that the damage did not happen during the transition of the doll based on other Soom owners’ opinions. That is why I hope to have this problem sorted out.

Thank you so much for spending time on reading this.

 

I messaged her on DOA Pm and message on PayPal. She haven't replied yet.

 

Just a bit updates here about what was going on on PayPal.

As I mentioned on the above, she is raising a dispute against the transaction on PayPal, following are the details of the message on PayPal.

From Buyer – (originally this is Minerva's first name and last name)​

12/05/2016 01:55 GMT+08:00

Since the post office has refused the insurance claim due to damaged and insufficient packaging as shown in photos, it falls upon you to make amends for the damage your lack of proper packaging has caused. The current going rate for the damaged doll part as per Den of Angels forum is $150 + shipping. I request a refund of $175 to cover the replacement part.​

So I replied her the messages after I saw it on 14 May and 15 May. I replied her to reply the message on DOA and also a shorter version of what I wrote on the top post of this thread.

But seems like she didn't see or didn't want to reply my messages on both DOA and PayPal.

 

Received a message from Minerva on Paypal but not on DOA:

From Buyer – (hiding her name)

17/05/2016 22:07 GMT+08:00

Your DoA feedback indicates that you had sold one (1) doll. This does not make you an expert at packaging for international shipment, as your packaging demonstrates.

I would guess that either the box was dropped in shipment or that the doll was strung too tightly in the first place (i.e. the reason Soom ships their dolls with hands, feet, and head unstrung: to prevent breakage of this nature). Those are the only things which would cause the ankle hook to sheer off in this manner.

Either way, I have already provided the costs to replace the damaged parts. It would be unlikely to get a proper resin match for an older doll such as this if ordering from Soom, so it's going to have to be secondhand and preferably from the same doll edition. The insurance will not cover this.​

Here are my response just sent, I spent a whole night for typing this and I really need some sleep since I need to work few hours later. I am more active in other BJD communities than on DOA because I have lots of friends in those communities already.
I don't even know what to response to the sold doll.... I had some sold dolls on other communities - but I really seldom sell my BJDs because I have to make sure I like the doll so much before I get a new doll. I take so much time on making decisions on selling and buying a doll. However, I want to focus on some of my dolls now so I really need to find other BJD owners who like them more to take care of them.

So the followings are my response on Paypal:

From Seller – (hiding my own name too)

18/05/2016 04:51 GMT+08:00

Hello Minerva,

Thank you that you reviewed my feedbacks on DOA, not lots of feedbacks but they are all positive. I know you are active on DOA way longer than me but I am sure you know there are more than 1 BJD forum in the world (not even need to mention Facebook groups and Flickr groups, there are tons in FB and Flickr), I have plenty of transactions in other BJD communities, online platform and offline transactions too, especially in Asian countries. If you are only counting sold doll on DOA, indeed I have only 1 sold doll on DOA feedback thread. But if you are counting all transactions that I had on other forums and transactions, I guess I have more than 50 transactions with zero negative feedbacks received (each transaction can contain more than 1 items) that are related to BJD stuffs and more than 10 dolls (not including those transactions on DOA).

I have to admit that I seldom sold my dolls because I really love them. And I am not making any profit by selling them. Just because I just hope to find other owners who like them more if I am selling them since I want to focus on some of my dolls now. Just a sharing, I would not say I own BJDs for long time compared to you at least for 10 years – I really hope my BJDs stay with me forever and I am still keeping my first doll for years. My 1st doll was owned by different owners and she was not kept in a good condition before she arrived to my place but now she is in perfect condition (The doll company was closed – I could not even get any replacement or anything).

I know you are not happy about the broken, I am very sad too. No one wants any part of the doll is broken. However, I have no any clue why you keep saying that I am trying to amend something, I am just saying the truth what happened with this package. I did not even say a word about my view until you started saying I was trying to amend in the message on DOA. I only asked you if you had contacted the local post office already and if you could show more photos to me and the post office.


Your 1st paragraph in your latest message showing you are an expert on mailing dolls and yes - you have been member on DOA earlier than me (I was too young to afford to get a BJD at that time), then I guess you kind of know on the following few important things in shipping perspective that many BJD owners know if they have some sold dolls transactions. The following few points were also pointed out by the staffs in the conversations when I was asking them about this issue in the Post office on Monday:


1) If you think the package was not "appropriate" when you receive it, you SHOULD NOT SIGN the package and REPORT IMMEDIATELY to the delivery staff about the issue.

2) Since you have your package fully insurance, the best way to protect your right as a buyer - you SHOULD CHECK and OPEN your package IN FRONT OF THE DELIVERY STAFF and report to he/she IMMEDIATELY if there is anything broken.

3) a- Assume you received your package at your place: If signed and opened the package already after the delivery staff left without telling him/her immediately there was any problem or issue about the package (that also means you have acknowledged the delivery staff the package was ok). So it probably will be a concern from the Post office staffs that you might have broken the doll no matter it was accidentally or in purpose after that.

b- Assume you collected them in post office: Check the items in the post office to make sure the stuffs inside the package was correct and not broken during transit before moving it back home.


Regarding to your assumption, no matter the damage was made by dropped or strung, they are all pure guess. Even I have a lot of pure guess too, but I am surprised that you said tight strung since it was mentioned by some other BJD owners on the public posts. Let me have this paragraph about the assumptions, in your assumption of the tight strung might have caused the hook was broken, I would like to point out the ball shaped part of the ankle does not it have any trace of damage and it looks super good in condition.


In fact, I didn't restring the doll at all and I am pretty sure it is not tight because Chalco (the doll) did not sit with the straight legs and feet (this is one of different ways to prove it is tight strung or not). But if you wanted to ship the doll unstrung, you could have requested to receive the doll unstrung from the beginning as you know super well about Soom how they pack the dolls. As I mentioned, those part with thinner resin parts would have been broken if the box was dropped. And there are a lot of BJD companies that sending the full doll without restrung unless they allowed you to specify to have the doll restrung for shipping.


I really think I need to mention this point again – the other part of the doll, especially those with thin resin parts, fingers or the skull would also have been broken if I did not pack the doll nicely. And I am sure you know in your deep heart if you are a Soom owner for so long that those thin resin extra parts and fingers are always be a concern for the buyers that those parts might be easily broken even for those dolls that have been well-packed and sent from the official doll companies. But in this case, everything are arrived safely except that part.


Thank you,
Phoebe
​

I am tired. Will keep this thread updated if there is anything new....

 

So few days ago, I received a phone call from Paypal on 18 May that Minerva actually escalated it to a claim. Here is the details after my reponses from the above.

18/05/2016 06:15 GMT+08:00 - PayPal: Buyer escalated this dispute to a claim.
18/05/2016 06:15 GMT+08:00 - Buyer: Replacement of the broken doll parts will cost $150 + shipping (approximately $25). The requested refund will cover this.I can provide photos of all damage including damage to the packaging if necessary. Please let me know if any further information is needed.
18/05/2016 06:11 GMT+08:00 - Buyer: I hear from you a lot of reasons why I shouldn't expect the doll I had purchased to arrive in the same condition in which it was purchased. That isn't going to work though. I am not going to be out the money for replacement of the broken parts. If you aren't going to offer a refund to make amends, Paypal can deal with this issue.I would be happy to provide to Paypal any photos or other details required to make a decision on this claim.​

I really don't know where she came the conclusion that I mentioned or imply anything about "the buyer should not expect the doll she had purchased to arrive in the same condition in which it was purchased." I did not make any amends on the damage but I do really feel sorry about the breakage - I tried my best to wrap it nicely and also gave her additionals (wig and eyes) as a present - hope she could take care the doll nicely. I even went the post office to ask for details about the insurance before.

After she escalated it to a claim on Paypal, now she is willing to provide every single details (including damages) to Paypal. However, she refused to do it when I asked her to have more photos and show them to the post office in the beggining. She kept saying the "inappropriate packaging" and I am really not convinced that she did went to the post office to file a claim. Followings are my reponses on today after she escalate the dispute to a claim.

I strongly disagree that I have ever made any amends for the damage because I did not do anything to cause the damage directly or indirectly. Now, I am wondering the reason why you keep saying “make amends” because you are just trying to push the “responsibilities” from nowhere to me to get the money in order to pay less for the doll.

I am not sure if you really did ask local post office on the first day you were unboxing the doll. According to your words, you said you brought stuffs to the post office to discuss an insurance claim but they are refusing a claim due to the packaging being "insufficient" for an item this size. However, when I looked up to USPS website, it says the customer must go to a Post Office to report items that are damaged and should complete different forms and damage report of insured article and contents. For the priority mail international items, insured or ordinary parcels or registered mail items, foreign posts approximately 60 days to research and respond to the International Research Group. So I am really curious how come the local post office came to conclusion so quickly, even less than a day?​

 

I am really thank you for everyone who sent me PM regarding to this transactions and provided me a lot of useful information!!
Thank you everyone who sent me messages. I am always happy to receive responses about this transaction.

 

Minerva,

I reported the issue to HK post office on 23 May 2016 and they have been contacting with US Post office about this package since 24 May 2016. Hong Kong Post office contacted me immediately that US Post Office tried to contact you via the contact details that written on the postal form but failed. And HK Post office called me on 26 May again to double confirm the contact details and US Post office tried to contact you for so many days till now and US Post Office is still unable to reach you since you are not responding to them.

Please be cooperate and contact US post office.

 

I didn't explain very well on the previous post... so let me explain a little bit more here...

I filled in the electronic form on HK Post Office website on 22 May 2016 about the receiver wanted to issue a refund from US Post Office the she got rejected immediately and asked if I could help to escalate the issue shipping claim of the package from me as a sender.
HK Post Office sent me an email that they received the enquiry on 23 May 2016 and they called me on the same day to ask me to provide the mailing information to be able to contact US Post Office about this issue. So after I sent them all the receipts that I have and mailing information, they gave me a file number in order to keep track with this issue with HK Post Office.

I have been contacting with HK Post Office and also the insurance company about this since then. US Post Office needs to contact the receiver to check the package and start to research on the package see if the receiver would be able to receive a claim from the insurance company.

However, HK Post Office called me a couple of times and sent me emails that the receiver didn't respond to any contacts from US Post Office.


I have told HK Post Office and also the insurance company that the package is mailing back to me now.

 

Minerva, I have a job that I cannot sit and wait for the package at home during weekdays. I could not even sign the package in the office because my schedule is really packed that I have lots of projects and meetings - so I was planning to go to the Post Office to pick it up there on Saturday morning. The time frame that I was given by the Post Office was 7 working days so I have the rights to sign the package within the time frame. However, I was told by HK Post Office when I called them on Saturday morning before heading to the Post office - not to sign the package until Monday since they need to double check with the insurance company.

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Now, I am glad the doll is back to me.

I signed after checking the external box was similar to how I sent out. Then I unpacked the package in the post office during my lunch time on Monday and I saw how you packed the doll with very thin bubble sheet
The way you pack the doll with thin bubble sheet - the doll still arrived safely without extra breakage that makes me really curious how the breakage was made that I wrapped the doll in a mummified form with thick bubble sheets during transit.

(the photos below was taken after I opened the official Soom box without unwrapping any bubble sheets yet and started putting the bubble sheet that was placed on the top. Then I took 2nd photo was taken right after putting some other parts of the doll on the side.)


Here is the video while I was checking if anything missing before I unwrapped the doll: http://vid444.photobucket.com/albums/qq169/phoebe9307/video-1466003242_1.mp4

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Since Minerva had received her full refund on Paypal, I consider this transaction is resolved on my behalf. I would kindly ask the mods to please lock this thread and mark this transaction as Negative Feedback.

I would not choose to do business with Minerva again and I would not recommend her.

I had never thought that I would start a problem transaction thread and this was the only and the last thing to write down all the details about this unhappy and stressful experience.

She was kind in her PMs at the beginning. She knew that the breakage was made after the doll was sent - there were lots of different people touched the packages during transit and arrived at Minerva's address. However, her words in her PMs after she received the doll and saw the breakage was showing lack of empathy for seller's situation that continued asking for the refund from me instead of trying to discuss with Post Office for the insurance claim of the package.

Me, as a seller, tried my best to wrap the doll before sending out. I tried my best to do what I could help for issuing a request on an insurance claim from Post Office. I went to the post office few times during my lunch time on weekdays, had lots of long calls with Post Office and PayPal and sent emails to HK Post Office in the past couple of weeks to tell them the receiver needs to claim the package. I was hoping that you would receive the insurance claim and cancel the issuing claim on Paypal before Paypal starting to review the case. However, I was very disappointed when I was told by HK Post Office that you did not respond to any contacts from US Post Office and Paypal started reviewing the case.

I am relieved this transaction is over.

Minerva, despite we have this negative transaction, but I do wish you all the best in BJD hobby and have smooth and pleasant transactions in the future.

I hope, if anyone is considering to have any transaction or do business with me, they will read this problem transaction thread and
I am hoping with all of my heart if someone is considering doing business with me that they will take into account the entirety of what has transpired within this Problem Transaction Thread. Hopefully, you will see me for who I am: a seller who tried to my best to communicate with different parties that involved in the transaction.

I sincerely thank you for reading this thread. THANK YOU for everyone that gave me a lot of advice and showed their care about this transaction.

 

I called them on Monday night that I received the package already and asked them to close the case. So the case should be closed before Thursday.
Thanks for telling me that you haven't received the payment. I called PayPal this afternoon to double check, they said they will close the case and grant your refund very soon.

 

Hello Minerva,

Thanks for telling me that you received the refund.

I apologized that the late delivery because the heavy rain in Hong Kong during those days that the boxes would be soaked wet and I usually mail the item on weekends I stated in my selling thread. I was about to mail it 16 and then 23 April but the weather was still very terrible. Thus, I knew you have been waiting for so many days so I took few hours leave from my company to mail the item on those 2 days 27 and 28 April. Once again, I am sorry that I was not thoughtful enough and I did not notify you immediately during those days.

To clarify the pms from you about the damage, for the pm on 3 May you received your doll and sent me a pm about the damage because I was not in Hong Kong from 1 May to 4 May. I responded to you on 5 May immediately after I was back to HK and received the pm. All the pms after on were responded on your next day or my late night on the same day, due to the time difference. I kept asking for the photos because I was worried there was something that pierced through the boxes or caused a huge hole to the soom official box that would caused the breakage - because it happened to my friend's package recently.

However, I did not hear you from 9 May via pms after I explained that the package was not damage at all but you kept saying that the box was damage. You started the Paypal disputy on 12 May 2016 without responding to my pm on 9May.

As you mentioned in your pm, you knew that the damage was made after the doll was delivered and you said you tried to contact post office for insurance claim - but you did not. I believe the inquiry was from US Post Office if it is regarding to the delivery of the doll sent by me to your address. They had been contacted you before Paypal made the decision because I had been receiving lots of call from HK Post office that US Post office could not reach you. If the inquiry from HK Post Office, usually it is regarding to the delivery of the doll sent back me.

I am happy Paypal made the decision on mailing the doll back to me instead. If I did not know how to pack the doll, were you? If I packed my doll like how you packed Chalco when you mailed back, I believe there would be higher possibility causing the remaining part of the doll being damaged.

 

I consider this transaction is resolved. Thank you.