Resolved Problem Transaction with Lullaby and Angeline425

Lullaby bought a Soom Lux/Volo from me. She requested the parcel be declared at $50, and marked as gift. The doll was shipped out in December. It has been sitting at a sorting facility.

Lullaby requested a refund of $50 on 2/27, to which I declined.

Lullaby then threatened to open a PayPal claim

Lullaby opened the PayPal claim on 2/28

I provided PayPal with our conversation along with a copy of the original shipping label.

I contacted PayPal via phone on 3/1, they stated that they will be contacting the post office for further information.

Below is our conversation.

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On 3/4, PayPal closed the case in ruling of Lullaby's favor. I will be calling shortly for an explanation, and will file an appeal.

I will update later with my results.

 

I'm sorry. I don't have that luxury. I can't give you money that I don't have.

 

I have filed an appeal with paypal.

This is so upsetting, especially since Den of Angels explicitly states that without insurance, I can't be responsible for lost, stolen, or damaged items in the post. I always looked to this forum as a safe place to sell dolls and doll related items. I'm sorry that you're sad. But not as much as I am angry.

You were informed of the risks. You were given other options. And the ad also stated the $5 fee for materials should you want her strung.

Tracking doesn't always extend to China. I mentioned this. I've had people receive things without the tracking update as delivered, or that it even left my country. So, for all I know, you have the doll, and are opening the case so you can get some money back.

I am going to make future international buyers aware of why I will no longer be accepting any kind of shipping methods but Priority or EMS, and that under declaring items and marking as gift are no longer options. This is why people in the US are no longer shipping internationally. This reason, right here. You.

I have never had a buyer to ask me for a refund for something 100% beyond my control. I have no idea how things usually work with you, but if you consider yourself to be kind because you give your buyers a dollar here or there, but completely screw someone else... You're not that kind. I don't really care how many times you've reimbursed other people for their troubles. I care about the fact that you're asking me to give you compensation when I really do not owe it to you. I do not understand how you have it in your head that I owe you money. I did everything right as a seller.

And if PayPal does decide to rule in your favor, then you have no idea what you've just done to me. No idea. I have no idea how I'm going to pay my medical bills, or for my medication. The money from this sale went to my oil bill. I have no idea how I'm going to get food next month.

 

Good.

 

Because like my very long rant stated... I don't owe you anything. And even if this does close in PayPal's favor, I am going to make sure that everyone knows exactly what happened here.

 

I also gotta ask, as an afterthought...

How many people have you threatened to open a PayPal case against if they didn't refund you? How much money have you made doing this?

I have no proof that you don't have the doll. I have your word, which at this point means nothing to me.

You can argue whatever you want. I did everything right. I complied with Den of Angels' rules. You just know how the system works, and you use it to your advantage. So I applaud you. But at this point, whether or not DoA agrees with me, I consider myself scammed.

 

That's great. But I have no control over where your package is right now. Once it left my hands, it was out of my control. It's not fraud. I literally have proof that it's no longer here. It's literally hours away from my house. That is not my responsibility.

I informed you of this. Den of Angels literally has a disclaimer that I'm not responsible.

And PayPal almost always favors the buyer. You know that. I know you know that. Everyone in this hobby knows that.

You knew 100% that if you opened a case, I would be held responsible because you under declared the amount and marked as gift. This is common knowledge. It's one of the most popular reasons to always insure at full value as merchandise. This is happening because I put faith and trust in you as a buyer. The fact that you don't see that is mind boggling to me.

I am not asking for anything in return, and you don't need to respond. The decision is up to PayPal now.

But it's my right as a seller to tell people about my experience with you, regardless of whether or not PayPal rules in your favor. And it's not going to end just here on Den of Angels. I know you don't have access to social media. But I do. I have all of the information in order. I have our conversation. I have my shipping label. I have evidence that you identified yourself as your name and address that is connected with your paypal.

That is not blackmail. What you did is blackmail. You threatened to open a paypal case against me if I didn't refund you. That is blackmail.

 

I saw the message your friend sent, and it has been saved as well.

 

Wait, what???

This is a joke, right? So now she's not even the person i did business with???

That's something that needs to be said up front no matter what business you're dealing in!

I don't believe this.

You really don't see anything wrong about what you're doing???

 

Also?

I... never said that she got the doll.

I asked how I was supposed know that it got to her (well, you now, apparently.) when tracking doesn't extend to china via first class.

I have no evidence that it was delivered, or that it wasn't. All i have is your word. That's it.

What I do have, however, is the shipping label that has a tracking number that last updated in December, stating that it is in transit from a facility that's 3 hours away from my house.

And? You think you can pull this and then ask me to trust her, or you, to send me the money back if one day USPS decides to update the tracking? She already broke my trust. No way. Not in this lifetime, or the next.

And a thread about me..? You weren't even involved with the transaction until right now.

I am way too old and sick for this kind of drama.

I'm literally changing all of my sales policies because of this.

And because I'm part of this transaction, I have the right to tell people why I will no longer be accepting first class, or allowing any kind of special requests. Even if I've sold to them before.

The fate of my money is in the hands of PayPal. Not you, not DoA, but PayPal.

The fate of your reputation lies in the facts covered in the conversations that have been screenshotted. Facts. Evidence. Tangible, concrete evidence. and waiting for PayPals decision before making my decision on what to do with them.

It's not blackmail or slander when all I'm doing is posting screenshots of full, consistent conversations.

People will judge you based on everything I've collected. Why are you so concerned about it if you don't have anything to worry about? If you're so confident about the conversations that took place, why are you hung up on my decision to publish the already public information?

 

I would have never entered the transaction if i had known about this information. Forget DoA's policy. That's common sense.

I'm going to see if I can do something about that. As far as I know, posing as someone else to do business is, in fact, fraud. This is the exact definition of fraud. And I can cite sources. Multiple.

And that's US Federal law. That's a genuine crime.

 

Just got off the phone with PayPal.

They said that your account is going to be flagged.

Which probably doesn't mean much for me. But honestly? Just knowing that US Federal Law being on my side is so incredibly comforting.

I will submit the screenshot of angeline's really weird confession when they decide in your friends favor because you BOTH know that when you file a claim as 'item not received' paypal won't do a single thing until that tracking says delivered.

You also knew that by under declaring the amount and marking as gift, I pretty much gave up my rights as a seller.

PayPal doesn't find you trustworthy. The automated system that reviews the cases simply don't have the capacity to process this kind of information. So until someone gets angry enough (like me,) and escalates the cases, an actual human doesn't look at them.

And trust me. I'm angry. I'm angry at you, and I'm angry at PayPal.

And I am not going to stop escalating. I am not going to stop calling them. I can do this forever. I will keep going until they transfer me to litigation.

I will do it until either you give up, or until PayPal decides that $228 USD isn't worth a huge commotion with their website, or obvious grounds for a class action lawsuit are met and threatened by myself and other participating victims that were affected by PayPal's decision to side with a fraudulent patron.

 

It has been brought to my attention by a peer that the shipping label is missing a building number.

For that, i apologize profusely on my part, and accept that responsibility. Your money has been refunded. (The phone number is on there too, so hopefully someone will call you)

I recant my statement about being scammed. As of now, we don't know where the parcel is, and if it will ever show up, and that is, indeed, my fault.

A friend was nice enough to give me money until I can pay off your refund, so I'm not as terrified as i was before.

However, I'm still reporting you to PayPal for fraud, and I'm still going to tell people about the way you handled this situation, as i still consider it extremely audacious that a refund was demanded and threatened. At that point, my mistake wasn't even made aware of. A kind asking of looking into things again would have been acceptable. A polite discussion could have been had, and rage wouldn't have been my first reaction. But I don't respond to demands or threats with any sort of kindness.

And I'm still really angry about this, because all of this wouldn't have happened if lullaby had told me that this wasn't her PayPal account, because I still would never have entered this transaction if I'd known.

In terms of the money exchanged, i supose i can consider it resolved. I think the rest is litigation against PayPal on my part.

What you did, regardless of my mistake, is still a US crime that took place before i even created the label.

So your money has been refunded, and credited to your PayPal account, and you have my sincerest apologies for the trouble caused by a human error on my part.

The PayPal mobile app doesn't have a print option, and on PC I couldn't print a first class label with PayPal, so I wound up inputting the numbers manually.

Shortly after this, usps stopped accepting payments for first class parcels via click and ship. Guess there were too many issues or something? Who knows.

 

I'm also issuing a full refund, as i can't in good conscience justify keeping any of the money because I messed up.

Side note: Kinda wish PayPal brought that up during 1 of the 6 times I called them though. They only viewed the case a million times during every phone call.