Laura's DreamDoll/ LDDolls - BANNED FOR COPYING

The thing that did it for me was the complete and total recast of a volks SD13 girl body. Here's the proof:

Laura's Girl Body:


Volks SD13 Jun Body:


You can see that the Laura's body is -exactly- the same as the Volks body, right down to the ankles. Look at the HANDS for crying out loud. They are the SAME as the Volks body, EXACTLY the same.

I don't like bootleggers who can't be bothered to do their OWN work but would rather copy that of a legitimate company. Sorry, the similarities are too huge to just say "oh, well...". IMO, of course.

 

Yikes. That's pretty plain. The hands -- well yeah they do look pretty much the same. Hands don't carry the same weight for me, though, as some of the other things about this comparison shot: the knees, for example, but most importantly that very distinctive hip line. It's not a totally smooth curve from the hip up to the waist, much more suggestive of a girl with NO extra padding so that her hip bones are clearly prominent. The Laura's body has that exact line.

Argh, the whole thing makes my head hurt.

 

Has anyone bought one of these dolls yet? I am just interested to know what quality they are and whether the buyer will actually receive the doll as depicted in the pics...i dread to think of the resin quality

 

The pairs of shoes I bought were the same as the ones pictured, and I thought they were really nice quality (considering price), too. Though I guess that doesn't matter since I'm sure the shoes and dolls are manufactured by a different company. But the seller themselves seem legit.​

​

 

A little bit of unprotected sanding is probably not going to cause any problems other than some minor lung irritation (which has undoubtedly passed by now) -- resin-dust exposure is cumulative, though, so you should definitely wear a mask when sanding in future, and preferably do it outside.

For the people who asked -- we can't police knockoff clothing, it's just too hard to keep track of -- so the shoes, etc. are allowed on DoA. I would certainly not recommend buying from this company in future (given that they may dry up and blow away if their doll sales are blocked by eBay), but you're certainly not going to be "punished" for inadvertently buying shoes or clothing from a company that turned out to be a doll copier.

-- A

 

The discussion of resin toxicity is really interesting and informative, though it doesn't go in this News thread. I've moved the discussion to the Workshop:

http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165865

Just a final note, please only post to this thread if you have new information to add. Thank you!

 

thank you! I keep seeing new posts to this thread and the last 18-20 have had nothing to do with this company's dolls.

No new news except for I checked and it looks like none of their dolls have sold yet, possibly as a result of suspicion. They have listed a couple of blank heads only. Can anyone identify those?

 

i don't want to pick sides in this, but i know of sewing patterns that if you copy them and change them on x points, it's not an copy anymore but an new design...
isn't that possible with those dolls, as a lot of poeple still see difference between the two...
an i was wondering that if it is that smart to bann a company that soon with that less evidence (even the people who said orginaly that it was a 100 procent copy are having doubts)...
because if laura's dreamdoll finds out what you're doing, and they are not copiers, they really can sew you for ruining their name and taking away their customers...
i really don't want to take side, but i don't want doa to get sued because of this...
hugs lamira

 

Word to the wise...I just noticed that this person has stopped listing her dolls on eBay as Laura's Dream Dolls, and is now relisting them simply as LDDolls in the title. Obviously this thread is having an effect on sales. Perhaps a mod might re-do this thread title to include LDDolls as well so the public knows, even at a quick glance. Wouldn't it be awful if some poor unsuspecting newbie here on DoA bought one of these and then couldn't enjoy talking about their doll or putting a photo in the gallery of their very first BJD! Thank heavens people are on top of this to warn everyone!

 

I'll update the title. Thanks for the info!

 

lamira that 10% rule that is often quoted doesn't actually exist. The law actually states no percentage. The criteria is that if the copyrightable item (regardless of what it is - painting, song, sculpture, etc) is recognizable as being as copy or being derived from another then it is a violation - doesn't matter if it's 99% copied, 90% copied, or 50% copied. I think in a court of law it would be hard to apply to dolls because in some sense they're all similar.

(btw, clothing is a poor example as clothing, being a useful item, cannot be copyrighted - only the specific printed instructions can be copyrighted)

 

Actually, human clothing can't be copyrighted because it's useful, but doll clothing is different because it serves no utilitarian function (see Boyds Collection, Ltd. v. Bearington Collection, Inc., 365 F.Supp.2d 612 (M.D.Pa. 2005)). The Copyright Office does not distinguish between human and doll clothing in its policy, but the courts are not happy about that because there is no rationale given.

At any rate, the dolls themselves would likely be considered unauthorized derivative works due to the extent of the similarity. Having two arms, two legs, and boobs is one thing, but a near-exact re-casting is copying. DOA members are in little danger of a defamation suit--the name change indicates that the seller is aware that people are questioning the dolls' authenticity, so if they were legit dolls, the seller would probably be emailing people instead of changing his or her name.

 

Metal molds are usually the master molds. The metal molds are then used to make the silicon molds that will be used to cast the actual dolls. The silicon molds will break after several runs .

The hands of your dolls are very similar to that of Volks. How do you explain those similarities?

 

You use 金城武's picture, have you ever asked for his approve for using his face to make a doll for your merchandise??

We did not read any news about 金城武 has cooperated with any company to make his doll.

Please stop declare that you make a 金城武 doll.

By the way, your doll is nowhere look like 金城武.

If your company really wants to do the BJD doll business, please be original!! Make your own original body, doll face!! Stop copy other company and stop copy real people's face without their approve!!

 

i soo have to disagree that an artist has to give aproval to let his pictures used for an bjd...
Look at the minimee project...angelina's ,brads and lots of asian singers are hopping around in bjd form at the forum...
and denny didn't ask their approval...i discussed matters with him, as i wanted to had an minimee from images that were supossely copyrighted (they where not by the way,and my minimee is made as we speak).He told me that the artist bjd's where just free to made no aproval needed...
and the reason she is using his picture is because some people think that that male is isao from volks...that way she sais that she not used isoa for the mold and use the asian singer as an reference for the bjd...
as you see if you look at that picture is that it is for clearing things up only...not for promatial..there is a nice line that says this pictures is only to clear things up and is temporarily or something like that...
i hope i made myself clear...
and please give her an chance to explain herself...ask as many questions as you like but she has the courage to come her to explain things...and that is more than al the other accused companies did...
i really believe in others letting explain themself before they get judged...
hugs lamira

 

Regarding eBay and copyright issues: only the copyright holder can complain to eBay.

There is no point contacting eBay if you're not the copyright holder. They will not do anything (nor can they do anything, legally) even if the item is obviously a copy.

The only thing you can do is report it to the legitimate copyright holder.

 

With all due respect, it's fine to have her explain herself. But basically all we have is a denial. It's very hard to argue with the evidence of our eyes, particularly in the case of the body pictures posted just above. And half a centimeter is nothing. Measurements can differ on the same individual from measurement to measurement.

It would be much more believable to me for someone to say "you know, if you check closely you'll see that my boy head is not an *exact* copy of Isao, but I wanted to make one that looked like him because he's so wonderful and so popular." That, I could believe. It would not make it a good thing to have done, but I could accept that. The resemblance between the boy head and that star's photo is ... vague, at best.

 

I would have to agree... Takeshi Kaneshiro (the star) 's face does not resemble the doll even if it was 'highly stylized'. And this can easily be seen by comparing the front dead-on view of his face or the 3/4 view.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=takeshi+kaneshiro&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

What I don't understand is listing the doll as a 'super dollfie' when it is supposedly an original (which it isn't ).

 

well that's not that wierd as like evrything in that range on ebay is listed as super dollfie or even obitsu...i saw soom/luts/dollilian (they even say obitsu in their title)/domuya and lots of others with that in their title..but that way people who search on dollfie (wich a lot of people do..as it is an common used term for bjd's) will find their doll lol..
hugs lamira

 

I agree with HappyBentoKid, even if the head were very much stylized it would look nothing like the actor, look at the nose, chin and eyes, not even close. If you want to make dolls and can't sculpt then hire some talent and go for it.

I am speaking of the photo of the actor LDDolls posted and the doll head sculpt. I see no similarity between doll and actor.

 

The similarities are way too blatant to simply be some kind of coincidence or an accident on the artist's part. I didn't know if it was alright to repost the images myself, so take a look at the photos of Isao here: http://angelden.net/volks/sd13/isao.php alongside this auction from LDDolls.

Everything, even the ears, look exactly the same or very slightly altered.

 

The only real difference I see in the 2 heads, is that the upper part of the ear is ever so slightly changed, and the fold above the eye looks like it was sanded a bit.
The faces otherwise looks the same. They are much too similar.

 

As a relative newcomer to BJDs in general, I had to do a double take at the photos BlindEnvy linked to, as to me they look like exactly the same sculpt-wise. And the more I compare, the more convinced i am that they're the same with maybe a few tiny adjustments.

There'd have to be considerable changes before they could be considered their own separate line. As it is, they just look like knock-offs. Has the seller stated anything on their eBay seller's page as a disclaimer?

 

I see difference in the shape of the lower eyewell and the chin. But with only 1 small photo of the LDD head it's really hard to compare.

One thing that would help LDD if they are insisting it is an original sculpt would be to show more views and andgles that emphasize the differences.

 

If they are ripoffs/recasts, they're not perfect copies of the original... which is actually something they can use to vindicate themselves, as these subtle changes could justify them to be different designs altogether.

Even if they're not shut down by eBay, if you think they're guilty of piracy, don't transact with or endorse them. Beyond that, I think it's up to the affected companies to take action.

 

Well, I've been in the artist section on here. I've seen what people go through to sculpt an original doll. It includes several itterations through including rough clay sculpts before the molds are even cast. We've seen many pictures during their processes. I can't imagine that anyone who is making them wouldnt take these kinds of images along the way. Not to prove anything, but to track their own progress, learn from mistakes etc.
Perhaps if we saw some of this process and progress from the new comers onto the scene, we could see that the similarities are just cooincidences, that a matching mouth shape just happened. And I do believe that these kinds of similarities can happen without copying. But when there are so many similarities and there have been other offenders before, its harder to trust with only a finished product.

 

This is not true under U.S. copyright laws (and these laws are agreed upon by most countries the US has business with).

Please see mhdolls' reply on the previous page (4).

Copyright violations can be proved if the item is recognizably similar. There is no set percentage of change that needs to occur. It only makes sense. Making little changes is still cheating/copying, after all.

There is a lot of people saying the same things over and over again in this thread...

 

Word. I've been trying to do overlay comparisons with the Isao-lookalike, but I've got a grand total of three LDD pictures to work from and apparently nobody takes full profile shots of their Isao without serious hair in the way. If somebody has an Isao handy, would they mind giving me a full profile bald headshot so I can see if there are major differences against this pic?

 

Filovirus (and anyone else who wants to take a crack at comparing): Not perfect, but the best I could do.

Karisu's (profile, but not close up)
Dr. Ko's (sort of profile)
Kiriko Moth's (closeups of various parts of the face)
From armeleia's database (blank isao, straight-on)

 

Bald side views from when I sold my Isao, if it helps. (Please note my Isao's nose was sanded down ever so slightly, so it's a bit rounder than a default Isao.)

 

Thank you both kindly.

 

Okay, I did overlays for Isao vs. LLD boy from both front and side views.



As you can see in these 35% and 50% transparency overlays, the LDD ears are MUCH farther back on the head. The mouth, chin, and eyesockets are, however, identical. This overlay was done using Valentine's Isao, so I refuse to pass any judgment on the nose.




Front view, using Armelia's headshots at 35% and 50%. There are some small differences in angle, but I believe the LDD may have a significantly broader jaw. Again, eyesockets and mouth are a precise match.

Verdict: This LDDolls boy sculpt very strongly resembles a Volks Isao, but I cannot definitively say that they are close enough to qualify as a copyright violation.

 

The product description is very misleading here http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-Dollfie-B...ryZ84635QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Part of the auction description:

 

Remember--copyright can be violated if something is recognizably similar enough (the amount it is similar may have to be determined in court--but if most people recognize it as like the original--that's enough) to the original. It does NOT have to be a perfect match!!!

 

The bolded part is why I hesitate to say definitively that it's an illegal copy. Was it "inspired" by Isao? Yes. Was recasting an Isao head involved in its creation somewhere? That's for Volks' lawyers to decide. I'm just covering my ass from libel accusations.

 

LDDolls have been literally spamming all over ebay lately... aren't there any news on this? I can't stand seeing them there

 

*cough* im sorry but thats a blatent lie. i can even see that just browsing through the pages. others look extremely similar to me but the clinch is ~




left is anemone right is zhen zhen. these girls are not only the same mould - theyre the same doll. the eyebrows are painted in the exact same, further more, notice the left upper eyelashes - how they both clump at the end? im sorry but ive never even known factory produced faceups of the same doll (ie shiwoos from luts) to look so so so similar. 4 of their other listings i can also place to be 2 dolls with the same face up

i know this seems insignificant, but i hate lies. and what i cant see is why someone would lie about this

and yes after staring at the girls for a looong time they look most smililar to the domuya sculpts, but all pics are so small its really nothing conclusive. if they are recast of domuya theyre certainly wierded up versions @_@

 

Datsuki, yes, that looks like the same doll for sure.
Possibly they meant the new name to mean only that particular fullset? (ie, same doll, different wig/outfit)? Other (legit) companies have done that plenty of times (eg: Elfdoll's Sibara is a special version of Ryung), so I don't think that alone means anything.

I noticed this new girl - anyone recognize the face sculpt? (most of the others to me look like Domuya copies but thios one does not)

 

Well they took over amazon............Theres not a single bjd on there except these ones........seems to be desperate for business.

 

Domuya no longer has Michele on their website the only way to see her head is by looking at the optional body and it shows the Michele head mold which looks like a copy of LDDolls.

 

seems to me, they must have found many buyers, too, since they seem to expand and everything

 

awe noema thats sad X.x maybe the other companies dont feel that its worth there time to start a dispute?

 

This brand is just going to get bigger and bigger. Eventually they'll be on here too. We are hoping for the companies to do something to protect themselves but I don't think they will, it's a really hard case to win.

 

I am SO tired of seeing these dolls spammed all over Ebay these days. They are not pretty, rather homely IMO and knowing that they are rip offs of Volks and other company sculpts really bothers me.

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_seeall_8?ie=UTF8&rs=&keywords=LDdoll&rh=i:aps,k:LDdoll,i:garden

They're all listed as unavailable at the moment, but that doesn't mean everybody with an amazon account can't write a truthful, negative review of every item.

 

um... does this mean we should contact amazon and tell them that the company is suspected of selling illegal copies?

 

Seems logical to me. I think they will care, since they have a reputation to uphold.

 

They shouldn't make it on to here as they have been listed as banned for copying.

 

It really irks me as an artist/craftsperson to see these issues keep coming up-I have been seeing some very awkward and homely creations being produced out there to make a quick buck. Someone should tell these people to ask for a critique of their work-they would be ripped to pieces. At least on this forum there is a place where you can ask for one and also post pics of self-made dolls to test the waters before going into production. I've found that most people are spot-on in their assessments and very honest.

 

All the bodies and heads are marked as currently unavailable.. Does that mean something happened or they didn´t they start business yet ?

 

well, ebay is still flooded with them, so they might as well continue doing their business there...

 

or better yet get caught and in trouble ^crosses fingers

 

I found this thread as I was looking up Laura's Dream Dolls/LDDolls to see what I could find as I just found them posted on eBay.

Has anyone actually purchased a LLD? Or know of anyone who has purchased one? I would be interested to hear what they had to say... or has anyone actually compared the Volks and the LLD side by side?

I find photos are very deceiving when looking from doll to doll... there are many well known companies that I totally get confused with as they have dolls who look so simular (never thought that they might be styled after Asian film stars).

Just throwing it out there for everyone to think about....