LA Volks Sumika not allowing FCS shopping services anymore?

Aimee says here that Volks is asking people not to take proxy orders at the LA store: http://denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34245&page=6

While I understand that Volks wants FCS to be a personal experience, as others have pointed out it's almost as expensive to get to LA to order the doll as the doll itself, for people who do not have the fortune to live nearby. :P I wonder if this policy is something they just "prefer" or if they're serious enough that they'd flat outright refuse to let you order for someone else...somehow I have the former feeling...as long as you aren't going in every weekend to place 20 orders a time. Perhaps they don't like people making a profit off of their special FCS service via shopping services.

The best way to find out for absolute certain what's going on is 1) email the LA store and/or 2) go down in person and find out.

 

That's a little bit stupid... FCS are expensive and for me to fly to LA is about the price of the doll, more if you count that I will have to stay somewhere and take transportation to the Volks store. Personnal treatment... if I choose everything about my doll it's personnal. What does it change if someone else picks it up for me cause I can't get to LA.

That's a bit unfair if you ask me.

 

-edited, bitchiness moved to a personal journal-

I think that's terribly unfair of them.

 

They are most likely not doing it to be "jerks", but to make sure all of their customers are satisfied with their choices and make up. The face up description can easily be lost in translation, and some companies that order many dolls may be tempted skimp on the details just so it doesn't take them a lot more time. These are not easy five minute procedures, they take time and care to do well, and even then may still go wrong. If Volks does not do a perfect job, the customer can ask for a repaint and then it would only slow down their production and make the customer more anxious. By putting up these restrictions, they are trying to make all customers more happy.

 

usagi665 > they make the customers who have access to FCS more happy, but those who aren't near LA/Japan are just unhappier, especially if they disallow/disprove of shopping services.

 

I think we've got to give them some slack. They obviously care about us and the American market, otherwise they wouldn't have a store over here. Part of the whole FCS deal is actually going physically in and *personally* customizing your doll with someone, it's part of the experience, not just getting a doll down to all your specifications. FCS is supposed to be special, and they probably want to keep it as personal as possible to hold onto the original integrity of it. Volks is just doing what's best to balance being a company and also being something more, something where they actually genuinely care about their customers and dolls.

 

GoddessVirage > but my point is a lot of people just can't get there personally. I'm sure everyone would love to go to a Volks store and place an order, but for a lot of us, LA may as well just be Japan. Don't you think they ought to take that into consideration?

 

=/ I think that's a bit unfair. I'm lucky enough that I used to live near LA and my dad wants to visit there, and is taking me with him. So I'll be lucky to order a FCS myself. But I understand that it would be extremely expensive to go JUST to get a FCS. I'm planning to go through Aimee to get a Sato FCS. I know I would not be able to get it otherwise. I think they should understand that with people like Aimee, she is truly trying to get people their special one of a kind dolls.

 

I really hope that they don't decided to enforce the no shopping services. I live in New Orleans, I'm on the other side of the country. If I want a fcs how do they think I'll get one?

They should offer customization online if they don't like the idea of shopping services because that would be the only way for people who don't live near L.A. would get one.

 

That would actually get pretty hairy. Think about it, if they only allow one or two people to do FCS proxy orders, there's no competition, so the proxies could charge whatever they'd please, and we'd end up paying through the nose.

 

Uhhhh I really don't know why this fact is coming as a surprise to people. ops:

I mean it's been well documented that Volks does not like people using proxies to order dolls for them from Sato/Japan. Why would they feel any different about using a proxy to order from LA?

Having done FCS at Sato, it really is a special experience to do FCS in person. Considering there have been examples of people ordering their LA FCS in person and being disappointed already, I don't think Volks wants you to risk going through someone else since it makes the situation even easier for disappointment. This is not meant to be a disrespectful on any service, but it does add another level to the process.

To be honest, I'm really surprised this hasn't come up earlier. ops:

 

rkold > again, most of us would love to go there and do it ourselves, we just can't afford to.

 

Its a shame that Volks would not allow shopping services. I can certainly see things from their point of view, but as I, and many others live hundreds or thousands of miles away, at the same time Volks is killing the dreams of many potential customers.

Me? Unless Volks opens a shop on the east coast somewhere, I will most likely never be able to make it to their store. I'm sure that I'm not alone. I'm half surprised they haven't considered opening a store in New York at least. I'd be willing to hop on NJ transit, or greyound, or the Chinatown bus to get there ^_^

 

I understand that they want it to be personal but when something like probably 90% of people who want an FCS can't get to LA to do one it doesn't seem very nice of them. I'm always seeing threads on people who ordered FCS though a proxy but it's rare to see one regarding somebody who was able to do it themself. If they can't use a proxy I'm sure a lot of people will never be able to get the doll of their dreams.

 

Most of us would love to do a lot of things that we just can't afford to do.

This is not new. Volks has -never- approved of shopping services. If you want an FCS badly, befriend someone in the LA area to get one for you.

There's a big difference between doing one as a favor and doing it as a full on business.

 

How were you planning on getting one before Volks opened the LA store?

 

to everyone. Darkmothflame and I would love to drive to LA and have the full fcs experience. We agree this would be the very very best way to do this.

But there are valid reasons for us as to why that may not happen (sorry Darkmothflame - i'm scared stiff of driving thru LA!!!!! )

we still love Volks dolls and would love to get our ideal ones. and so we dream of finding ways to make it happen.

Dreams are always allowed, right? (glurg - emails are so difficult - I'm just trying to explain that we would love to do it the way that Volks requests us to. and I'm trying to make that happen - but darkmothflame knows i'm kind of a wimp when it comes to big cities - so we were hoping to use a buying service... and am going to be very sad and worried if that isn't possible anymore)

 

Whoah people, chill for a moment! XP First of all, has more than one person emailed LA Sumika, or called them on the phone, or gone there themselves, or otherwise confirmed or gotten specified Volks' official position on proxy services?

Before we start taking offensive or defensive positions (if I seemed to in my earlier post, I didn't mean to start anything :P), we should get confirmation or, you know, something solid from more than one person. So far all I've found is Aimee's post ( http://denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34245&page=6 ) saying,

Please understand that I'm not gainsaying or questioning what Aimee has said --I'm only saying that the best way to avoid rumor and getting too excited over speculation is for more than one person to say, "Yes, this is true, I found out myself" rather than, "I read somebody else saying this," which is what I'm doing. (To be honest, I haven't called or emailed Volks, but that's mostly because it wouldn't be too big a deal for me to go to the LA store if I wanted to...but I can understand the pain it gives others who are not so fortunate.)

So please, so this thread won't turn into a mess about the good and bad points of shopping services/profits/scalpers, we should find out for certain direct from the source what's going on.

 

I live in NY, I am probably never going to the LA store.

I'm not saying Volks' attitude is right, I am just saying this is hardly a revelation and I can see why they have it. ops:

We all know Volks does not like services charging to place orders. There has been this discussion before in threads on Sato.

We all know Volks wants people to place orders in person, there have been discussions on this on why FCS isn't available on-line and in the Sato threads.

Ordering FCS, no matter how you slice it is an expensive proposition, heck most BJDs are, these are luxury items.

There have been people disappointed to some degree with their FCS orders from LA that were placed in person. It does make things more risky by adding a service. It's sort of like that game of telephone. I can see why Volks would not want to add to this possibility.

I do understand why people use services and want them. ops: I just can also see Volks' point of view.

Would I like Volks to open a NY store even though I would have to pay sales tax, of course!

There are, at the moment, still people offering LA FCS, even if Aimee is not. Aimee is still offering Sato FCS, despite Volks' disapproval.

 

darkmothflame, I hope you didn't think I was aiming my last post at you! ops: I wasn't aiming at anybody in particular, just kind of trying to calm the seas to prevent a storm, when I realized how potentially hot this topic could get.

It's just that occasionally threads like this get filled with speculation or woes, which is not necessarily a bad thing (sharing doll-woes is a part of the hobby after all XP), but then it sometimes makes the actual information asked for in the original post hard to find...like you'd have to sift through 10 pages of worries/hopes/reassurances in order to find the actual information scattered throughout it. :P I was just hoping that with a topic this important to people, we could prevent that.

(But on the other hand, reassurances are...well...reassuring. XP So I'm not badmouthing those by any means!)

And don't apologize either for asking for information. :wink: That's half of what DoA is about, right? It's a good thing you started this thread, so hopefully it will attract attention and then we'll all know what's going on.

 

All this sounds to me like they just want to make it as hard as possible for people to get their dolls. I can understand wanting people to have a «personal experience» and the customer service jazz, but come on. I'm on the other side of the frikking continent here, and people in Europe have it even worse. Do they really expect us to make a special trip halfway across the world just to get a doll? Bit ridiculous, if you ask me. I'd wanted to get a sunlight f21 when I eventually go to japan, but I sure as heck wasn't going to go just for that.
Sure, they're luxury items, but we already have to pay extra for proxies; having to go in person effectively puts FCS out of reach for a hell of a lot of people.

 

And again, how were you planning on getting an FCS BEFORE Volks opened the LA store?

 

I wasn't.
I only even considered one when the possibility of a trip to japan came up. But not everybody gets that opportunity.

 

Wait, so you actually would spend however many thousands to make a trip halfway across the globe just to get a doll?
I'm sorry, but the mind boggles. I can see going to pick up an adopted child, but a doll?
Anyways, it simply sounds like they don't care that a whole bunch of people have no other way of getting a hold of their dolls without spending ginourmous amounts of money.
If it is, in fact official policy and Volks comes out and says so, they've lost one buyer here.
That's about as much as I can manage without devolving into incoherent ranting, so I'll leave it at that.

 

I think they are going to japan already, and the exclusive doll trip is tokyo->kyoto.

Ps. Tickets from San Jose airport aren't too bad if you make a trip around it and don't just go for the store.

 

Yes yes that is EXACTLY what Volks wants to do.

 

I wasn't speaking of idrisfynn , I'm planning a japan trip myself, and was going to make a side-trip to sate. I'm talking about everybody else who isn't going to japan or LA, for who it isn't feasible, and who just want a bloody doll.
But until Volks comes out and says so, which I doubt they will seeing as they haven't said anything about other companies' dolls either, don't know what there is to do about it.
Besides, if the problem is in the translation, then why do they exclusively have a problem with shopping services, and not someone's friend doing it, as someone else suggested? The only difference is that one is paid.

 

I'm drowning in sarcasm, for some reason...

 

Yes you have to book an apointment in advance, if you do it early enough it probably won't be difficult to get in. But you will most likely have to wait for others to get their dolls too and may be at Sato for a few hours.

 

Volks likely doesn't want shopping services doing FCS because they don't want people contacting them directly about supposed mistakes that happened, like a wrong interpretation of a faceup, or if something happened to the doll during shipping. That's why they don't honor warranties on secondary market dolls, either.

 

Yes, and that goes for all the shops, not just Sato.

 

See, that strikes me as being perfectly normal. Would it be that complicated to state that people who buy through shopping services take their chances with them, instead of getting rid of them altogether? Sure they want happy customers, but they'll likely have quite a few more unhappy ones with this policy than with the other.

 

Right, so people wanting a doll without shopping services would have to stay in Japan for what a month? two? to get their dolls? Wouldn't have been a problem for me, since I'm doing a year abroad, but I'm not everybody.

 

Sato takes one month, and they would have to know someone in Japan to have the doll delivered to.

 

Because everybody knows someone in japan who they'd trust their doll with? At least a reputable shopping service is less likely to run away with your money/doll/whatever.

Anyways, I'm guessing this is getting off-topic, as it's about the LA store, and Aimee still takes orders for Sato.

 

Store is based in Japan, they don't have shipping arrangements made to send them to any location in the US. I don't think we expect US stores to do international shipping with things like this either, I don't understand the double standard.

 

I'm not sure I follow your argument.
I know they don't have arrangements for shipping outside Japan, isn't that what the shopping services are for? How else did you get a FCS before the LA store opened? Isn't that what people are going to have to go back to, if they can't go through LA? My understanding was that it was cheaper to go through LA for non sato fcs than one of the japanese sumikas.

 

Hi DarkMothflame,

Yes, you need a Japanese shipping address.

You can make your Sato appointment pretty close in. I have done mine about a month or so in advance. I have never made a reservation ahead of time to do FCS. I would, when making my reservation, warn that you can't speak Japanese, unless you can, cause a lot of the staff don't know a lot of English. If there is an event taking place in Sato things might be busier, I've never been there when one was occurring. Though I did end up getting interviewed and being on Japanese TV. There was a great picture of me in the Sato blog for awhile lol

There are a lot of Sumika in Tokyo. If you were in Japan for an actual month or more, you could order from a Sumika and receive your doll before you left Japan. It takes about 1 month for FCS.

hope this answers your questions!

 

... and this is a good thing?!

 

One does not need to make an appointment well in advance to go to Sato unless there is something big happening on that particular day. (The something big is usually a painting class involving the purchase of School heads.) I've booked a week in advance and was fine. On top of that, if you are a Volks VIP or VS club member, you don't even need to book -- you can just go and flash your member's card.
Also, booking is not required to order a FCS. If you want to order a FCS, you go down to the FCS room and add your name to the list of people waiting to order a FCS. There is usually a lengthy wait, but they announce your name over the PA so you can explore the rest of the Sato building while waiting, or shop in the store next to the FCS room, or whatever.

The fallacies that a) getting an appointment at Sato is difficult and b) booking in advance is required to order a Sato FCS, were started by some FCS scamming services in the past.

Of course, if you cannot speak Japanese, it's best that you book well in advance, and warn them that you are coming, and in particular, if you want to order a FCS, warn them of that. Many of their staff do not speak English well, and the vagaries of a faceup description require a higher level of language understanding. They do not, however, ship to addresses outside of Japan, and may be wary of shipping to a friend's address in Japan as well.

Volks does not and have never approved of scalpers or shopping services. I do believe that the current LA situation has as much to do with translation worries as anything, but that's my own belief based on what Aimee has told me about her dealings with them while doing FCS. I think that they weren't really prepared for the issues involved with translating faceup descriptions, and that it is turning out to be more difficult than they thought. I had discussed this sort of thing with some Volks staff previously at Sato, and they had mentioned at the time that they thought they would never offer FCS via the internet, because of all the woes involved with trying to translate the faceup descriptions, and being unable to hammer out the vagaries of the description with the owner in person. (Because it IS easiest to explain what you want in person.)

Volks currently has a warning up on their Japanese website, and also at the top of each weekly email newsletter that they send out to their customers; they put this up in mid-February, so it is quite recent. While this is a crappy translation as I am sort of rushed, this is the gist of it:

While I am not privy to Volks' private information so can only make assumptions about the implications involved, my assumptions from the above warning lead me to believe that they are having customers complaining directly to Volks when they have a problem with their shopping services, and that there are enough of them that Volks is worried about it. And unfortunately it's not something Volks can do anything about; if a shopping service rips off a customer, Volks cannot make good on what the shopping service promised.

So while this is the statement about 'taking one's chances' that someone asked for, nonetheless customers still do contact Volks directly when they have problems with their shopping services, even though it has nothing to do with Volks. They've never outright banned scalpers or shopping services, because honestly, there's no way they could ever properly 'police' that sort of thing. But it does cause alot more problems for them than they like to have.

 

hey Rkold,
thank you!

Rkold said :
There are a lot of Sumika in Tokyo. If you were in Japan for an actual month or more, you could order from a Sumika and receive your doll before you left Japan. It takes about 1 month for FCS.


I hadn't thought of that (though i'm betting darkmothflame had) - if we could come up with the money before she leaves, she could go the first week or 2 to a Sumika, order her fcs and then ship it home herself. now we just have to figure out how to come up with another $2,500 or so

(cause I would love to have her order mine too --- ) hmmm - well at least we should be able to come up with enough extra for 1....

 

Okay you`ve all just convinced me that Volks just want to pander to the rich people who can afford to pay to wait around for a doll in LA or Japan. That doesn`t mean people who can`t afford to go there wouldn`t love the doll any less than people who go there. It`s got nothing to do with custumer service, if all companies worked like that we wouldn`t have an economy... Imagine if people expected you to drive to the next state cause you wanted to have milk... It`s a bit extreme an example but you don`t see other dolls company asking you to fly to their home office to get a particular face up. And if your point is that you`re not garanteed to get the face up you wanted, I`ve heard stories of people getting FSC dolls from Volks and not getting the face ups they wanted... even thought they went to Japan.

If someone trusts a person enough to get a doll through them, shouldn`t Volks respect the person`s wishes.

If it`s the case, I`d rather encourage other companies who give me a better service. Excuse me but last time I checked, the rule of thumb is, the custumer is always right.

 

Food is a necessity to live. Expensive dolls are not. Being able to buy these dolls is not a right but a privelege. If luxury items were a right, rest assured we'd all be driving BMWs and wearing Versace jeans.

If people are able to save $1000 to buy a doll then they can be patient and save the $500 it requires to fly to LA for a weekend. I want to do Sato FCS doll and I am just going to have to wait until I can make the trip to Japan to do it.

Volks has been discouraging shopping services for FCS from the very beginning and travel within Japan can be just as expensive as travel within the United States. It's a model that has been very successful for Volks in Japan and I doubt that it is going to change anytime soon.

 

-_- . I would LOVE to buy a FCS someday, but I live in VA which is 3000 miles from L.A. and if it is going to cost me a arm and a leg to fly out there , book a hotel room, try to find the store and pray that I can order one and that the store will be open, well this is the reason why I don't have Volks dolls anymore.

 

Exactly! (and in a much nicer tone of voice than I would've been able to convey.)

 

FCS was only attainable through an American based shopping service? Huh? I don't understand everyone. Volks doesn't like shopping services, this is not something new. If this store didn't exist, what would you have done for one then?

People that live in Japan don't even have a Volks around every corner, yet they're seeming to survive just fine. If you really want your doll, you'll find a way to get it.

 

Think about it for a minute. For people who have to scrimp and save for ages to get their dolls, how many are going to think this added expense is worth it? You could get a super limited doll for what it'd cost to order in person.
Volks is certainly within their rights to dissaprove of shopping services, and even to go so far as to ban them, but I don't have to like it. I don't think it's at all fair, and it reeks of snobbery. I've yet to hear of Versace being upset cause someone's been buying their clothes for someone else, and you don't get snootier than haute couture.

 

I am one of those people who have to scrimp and save for a doll, and you know what, I don't complain about not being able to afford a luxury item right away. If I want something bad enough, I'll save for years if I have to.

If people don't want to save to afford the added expense, then perhaps a FCS doll isn't the one for them.

 

That`s exactly my point AminaMithri, I have yet to encounter another company who doesn`t want people to get their merchandise. I wanted to go through with Aimee, who is a well respected person but now, since it`s now an exclusive club... well too bad. I`ll love another doll and that`s that.

Owning a doll is a priviledge?... LAst time I checked I had to work to afford the dolls I have. You`ll have to excuse me to try and be pratical in the way I spend my money. I think having to travel to one place or another to get a doll when there are plenty of reliable shipping method, a waste of time, money and energy... For me spending 800$ for a plane ticket equals getting another doll.

It`s all about perspective and what you want to do with your hard earned cash. If Volks doesn`t want my business, I`ll do like every savvy custumer, I`ll buy somewhere else.

 

It's a damn good thing I'm happy with my single doll and have never been eager for an FSC experience, as I think I am as far from LA as is possible in North America (Nova Scotia). While I understand that they want an FCS experience to be personal, this is kind of extreme. If you want to share your dolls with the world, why make that near impossible?

Could you always get an FCS doll for someone else and just NOT mention it? Act like it's for you?