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Jethro- mold and cast pictures!

Aug 25, 2008

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    1. Double post, 'cause I finished the arms and the changes to his face. New pictures in first post.

       
      #61 Silk, Mar 31, 2010
      Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2010
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    2. wow hes looking amazing!
       
      #62 Bridget McCall, Apr 1, 2010
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    3. What a beautifu work ... congratulations! I wonder if one day I will be able to do something.
       
      #63 pituca, Apr 2, 2010
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    4. I'm so impressed by your work! The detail is beautiful, and I really like how you've integrated the joints into the flow of the sculpt! :)
       
      #64 Alewife, Apr 2, 2010
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    5. He's wonderful Silk, :love is so nice to see him strung and almost complete after a long time :blush every change you make on him he gets better, i like a lot his mouth and chin and his nose is very original.
      About test stringing i broke the joints when i tested my tiny, i didn't inserted wires in her joints, so it was more fragile, did you inserted wires in the joints of his foots and hands?
      I guess even with wires paperclay can broke and one must repair it :(
       
      #65 Runy, Apr 3, 2010
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    6. He's so awesome looking! I've been following this guy since he was up on DoA. I love all the subtle muscle definition. His face it great, the changes you made are really nice. Great to see that he is almost complete! :D
       
      #66 Miss_Pygmalion, Apr 4, 2010
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    7. I really love him. :) He's so masculine and he has such a presence to him. I can't get over how beautifully sculpted his hands and feet are!
       
      #67 armeleia, Apr 4, 2010
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    8. Your doll is fabulous! The hands are most impressive!
       
      #68 Tami, Apr 4, 2010
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    9. Looking good! can't wait till he's all put together :)
       
      #69 renellesdolls, Apr 5, 2010
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    10. great work! I can't wait to see him finished! :D
       
      #70 SarahM, Apr 6, 2010
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    11. I love all the little details in the sculpt, especially the hands and feet.
       
      #71 twigling, Apr 6, 2010
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    12. He is gorgeous! Congratulations -i really love his handsand feet and especially the dimples in his back. No maybe it is especially his knees.

      Wish i could see him in person!
       
      #72 patl, Apr 6, 2010
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    13. Started coating and sanding today and I really enjoy that. It's awesome to see how smooth he's getting. One question: Is it possible to add some clay when there are a few creases and dents the coating doesn't quite cover? Or should I just add a few extra layers of mr. Surfacer?

      Thanks for the kind responses, people. I'm going back to work now. ... Well, first I'm going to eat something, then watch Doctor Who (yes!!!) and then continue sanding.

      @glimmer: Thank you!

      @pituca: Come on, I'm sure you can. I mean, this is my first. If I can do it, so can you.

      @Alewife: Thank you. I'm happy his joints worked out. I wanted to keep him single-jointed, because I don't like how double joints can disrupt the sculpt, but for a long time I was under the impression that the ball joints were too big. Stringing him showed me they weren't.

      @Runy: No, I didn't insert wires. That's why I don't dare to make him stand.
      Thank you for the compliments. And thank you for your constant return to this thread. Your responds really helped a lot.

      @Miss_Pygmalion: Wow, then you have been following him for a long time! Thanks. It's strange he's almost done, though. I have the same feeling as when I'm finishing a writing project. I should be glad, but I'm quite melancholy instead. Ah well, time to draw out some blue prints for a second doll.

      @armeleia: Oh wow, that is a big compliment. Thanks. Working on him always makes me fear he is a bit bland and I keep wanting to change things to make him more... interesting. I'll stop that now. (besides, otherwise it'll take me another decade to complete him)

      @Tami, renellesdolls, SarahM, twigling: Thank you so much for the kind responses.

      @patl: I wish I could see yours in person! And I'm amazed you could even see the dimples in his back. Looking at the pictures I can't do that. Thank you.
       
      #73 Silk, Apr 10, 2010
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    14. Yes you can, but maybe worth sanding away the surfacer in those areas to let clay grip clay. I don't know if Mr. Surfacer is as thick as the typical auto primer/filler I use, so probably best to use clay to fill those areas rather than multiple coats of surfacer, which then have to be sanded back. I generally sand the bumps and things with 400 grit sandpaper, and then recoat, but with cracks and dips it depends on the size. If you can use something like a filler "paste" rather than clay; a la the spackle stuff that is used on walls, but maybe made from a thinned down slick of the clay you're using ~ if that's possible, or else, there are synthetic products out there, maybe even household items that might do the job.
       
      #74 twigling, Apr 10, 2010
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    15. I love how none intrusive the joints are.
       
      #75 lilithskyblue, Apr 11, 2010
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    16. Thank you Twigling. I used a little slick, as you mentioned, and the results weren't bad at all. One final coat and the head's finished. About that: Should I sand that as well, or just coat it with MSC to give it a matte finish? (sorry about the newb-questions; I know it's been answered somewhere on this forum, but I can't find the darn post)

      lilithskyblue: Thank you!
       
      #76 Silk, Apr 13, 2010
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    17. When I prime, I usually sand the primer and then coat more (several times) so there is no clay showing, just primer. Then polish the primer with very fine steel wool or sandpaper to make it almost glossy, clean all the dust off with grease&wax remover and then spray MSC for the final finish. And usually mold release over that too when I get to that stage.
       
      #77 twigling, Apr 13, 2010
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    18. @Twigling: Thank you once more. I'll follow your lead then; one more coat to go.
       
      #78 Silk, Apr 14, 2010
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    19. i'm loving what you've done with his face, it's a slightly more mature look and the lips are lovely.
      he's looking impressive
       
      #79 maggot, Apr 17, 2010
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    20. the hands are really perfect oO
      good
       
      #80 Kaori, Apr 18, 2010
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    21. @Maggs: I'm happy you like the changes. I wasn't sure at first, but after having worked on him for few days (coating and sanding), I prefer his face over what he looked like before.

      @Kaori: Thank you.
       
      #81 Silk, Apr 21, 2010
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    22. Double post, 'cause I need some advice. I took a full-body shot of an (unstrung) Jethro to see if the next heads I'm going to make should be a bit smaller, but... I'm not sure. Seems that I can't really see the obvious. What do you guys think? Is his head too big for a doll? Should a next doll look better if that head is going to be a little smaller? I'm afraid the proportions between the head and the shoulder width will be off then, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

      [​IMG]


      With wig:

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]


      And just because I haven't shown you a picture of his face with eyes, one other:

      [​IMG]

      He has such a grim expression here .








       
      #82 Silk, May 2, 2010
      Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2010
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    23. i think his head is about right for those shoulders. i'd not make bigger.
       
      #83 maggot, May 2, 2010
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    24. For a normal, cartoony bjd those proportions look pretty spot on, but I'd definitely say go a bit smaller on the next heads. Your style has a lot more realistic touches to it than most bjs, so it lends itself to looking a bit bobbleheaded. That being said it is still very beautiful and your sculpting skills are pretty amazing.
       
      #84 Mr. Orange, May 2, 2010
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    25. Right now your doll has a similarity to Dollstown in the very wonderful realistic detail in the body sculpt with a head that while realistic becomes stylized because of its proportion to the body. It makes the body seem more fragile than its musculature indicates. I'd say given the trend for realism it couldn't hurt to go smaller on the next heads. Don't change a thing about that body though!! :)
       
      #85 St. James, May 2, 2010
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    26. I think the head is a bit big, and you might want to aim for smaller in the next attempt. If you want, you could also mold the head in a silicone with a higher shrink rate than what you use for the rest of the body, this way the head would come out somewhat smaller without having to completely resculpt it.
       
      #86 twigling, May 2, 2010
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    27. Thanks, you guys, you're a great help! In that case my next head will be smaller. If all goes according to plan (and seriously, when does it?) I'm going to start with it next week. Today I'm going to check if elfdoll-boy size, or perhaps Volks Madoka size fits better.

      @Twigling: I thought about using a silicon with higher shrinkage, but I'm afraid the head won't fit on the neck anymore when it's smaller. But... it can't hurt to try, so I'll make two versions.

      @St. James: I had no plans to change the body, except for the collarbone. The curve is off and yesterday I've discovered what caused it. I'll wait until after I've casted Jethro, though. Right now, I want this boy to be finished.
       
      #87 Silk, May 3, 2010
      Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2010
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    28. silk, the head will fit on the neck if you make adjustments for it. For example, make the neck opening a little larger before molding (to shrink), or perhaps mold the head first and then adjust the neck of the master torso to fit before the rest of the body is molded. The silicone I used to shrink Nkiru's head was the Moldmax 30, while I use platinum cure silicone with minimal shrinkage for the body. Moldmax would not make Jethro a pin-head, the reduction would be quite subtle, but also noticeable when you compare the master and the original side by side. Probably similar to the difference between armeleia's Tinydoll in the master and cast versions; you can see the casting is smaller but not very much. I plan to do the same thing with the doll I am working on now, to reduce the head and the hands as I feel they are a little too big. I don't want a big change, just a little bit that will not distort the overall proportions, but improve them, at least in my mind.
       
      #88 twigling, May 3, 2010
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    29. Twigling, I was already looking into the platinum cures, but am not sure what version to use. Smooth-sil appeals to me because of the 'no shrinkage'-promise, but - being a beginner - it seems a little harder to use.

      Then there is Mold Star, seemingly very easy in use.

      Have you ever used one or both products? And what did you prefer?
       
      #89 Silk, May 3, 2010
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    30. Never heard of Mold Star... it depends on how you're planning to make your molds; two-part or split-block. Yes, platinum cure has some cure inhibitions but I haven't had much trouble with it, primarily latex and sulphur-clay. Will you be using pressure or vacuum to remove bubbles from the molds and castings? Although none of this really has much bearing on the silicone you use, more to do with the shore hardness selected.

      Smoothon silicones will be more expensive because the retailer will tack their transport costs onto the retail price. There may be more local options that are just as good.

      There are now tin cure silicones with lower shrinkage too, such as the MoldMax XLS II... for a beginner it might be less costly to use a tin cure silicone, theoretically you make all your mistakes and learn and get more comfortable using that, and then consider using a platinum cure when you feel more comfortable.

      Googling "mold star", looks like it has a very low shore hardness (only 15!! this is quite soft and stretchy) which means it's not real good for two part molds, but might be good in the same way that "Bananaskin" is = if you just have a big enough pour gate, you can demold pieces by turning the mold inside out. This means no seamlines and just a modified area where you trim and sand the gatemarks.

      SmoothSil (I used 920) was really a bit too soft for what I wanted, I prefer 30-40 shore hardness for my split block molds, because the cuts are more likely to line up and not deform, making for bigger seamlines. It wasn't hard to use, but because part A and B are both clear, it's hard to know when it is mixed... using a mixer on a drill would help, and mixing for a good few minutes since the potlife is fairly long. You could add some pigment (silicone pigment) to help see when it is mixed too.
       
      #90 twigling, May 3, 2010
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    31. I'm just gonna chime in to say that i think getting a lower cost tin cure silicone might be better for starting out, especially if you've never made a mold before. You might be able to get a kit for a pretty low cost and try molding just the head or just the hands. Oomoo from smooth on is great for beginners because it's a 1:1 volume mix and quick set. However, it is low strength and will just sort of dissolve in it's own nonsense after about a year. Good for junk casts, but not for molds you want to last.

      I too prefer a 30-40 shore hardness for my final molds. :3 I use MoldMax30 pretty much exclusively, but i don't usually worry too much about shrinkage.
       
      #91 SarahM, May 4, 2010
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    32. You know, I've heard that before about Oomoo, so I went and poked at my first mold. Seems okay, and it's almost three years old. I'm planning on using chopped molds from about that time-period as "filler" in my newer molds, so hopefully it will continue to hold up.

      I did get some Mold Star along with my new batch of Oomoo, and I'm looking forward to experimenting with it. Didn't realize the squishiness would be a potential problem as well as an asset, although it makes sense. If I find any especially good techniques for working with the stuff, I'll be sure to share. :))
       
      #92 Logodae, May 4, 2010
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    33. That's very interesting, thank you both!

      @Morgan: Yes, please do share it with us.

      @SarahM: Have you ever used Oomoo yourself? Despite not worrying about shrinkage, is there a difference between Moldmax and Oomoo? I want to try out Twigling's plan of molding the body with a non-shrinking silicone and the head with the opposite and am curious to see if I can get two silicons that are easy to use.

      EDIT: I see that both don't need a vacuum-chamber per se, but I decided to go for a pressure pot anyway because of the end result (I hate bubbles).
       
      #93 Silk, May 5, 2010
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    34. My oomoo was good for only about 10 castings before they really started to warp. I think it depends on the environment you cast them in and how many castings you do. they seem to be fine for chopping up and adding to new molds like morgan was aying.

      The biggest difference i found between moldmax 30 and oomoo was durability. I didn't notice any difference in the shrinkage, but i wasn't really looking at that. :S
       
      #94 SarahM, May 5, 2010
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    35. Uh... I do think the head is a bit too big. It might be good for a body that's 65 cm and not just with added leg length. Maybe a 70cm body? I don't know, but he does look a bit off...
       
      #95 Mary Garden, May 5, 2010
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    36. His head shouldn't be so rounded at the top. It should be a bit smaller but the sides of his head definitely need to be flattened.
      [​IMG]
       
      #96 Jphobia, May 6, 2010
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    37. JPhobia: The reason his head is so round at the top is because otherwise wigs don't fit properly. I know a normal head doesn't look like that, but then a normal head doesn't wear doll wigs ;p.
      I actually had to change his skull to what it is now, as his hair was eating his face no matter what size wig I put on.
       
      #97 Silk, May 7, 2010
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    38. What if you use a smaller wig? (This might be a stupid question)
      I'm sure an elasticated wig would also work out if it's the shape you're concerned about.
       
      #98 Jphobia, May 8, 2010
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    39. Like I said: same result. It was something in the shape of the head that caused it. The moment I made his skull more ball-shaped, problem was solved.

      I looked at Luts-dolls, Volks and Esthy's Peroth. These dolls have very round skulls and as a result it doesn't matter what wig you put on top of their heads: it fits. Since that part of the dolls head isn't visible, I didn't mind that it was less realistic. My primary concern was to create a doll that looked good with a wig.
       
      #99 Silk, May 8, 2010
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    40. I just wanted to start by saying that you've sculpted the most beautiful legs ever! everything else is just as nice on your boy but since I'm having so much trouble with my girls legs its nice to see that its possible. hehe.

      can't wait to see him all done.^^
       
      #100 Higgy, May 8, 2010
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    41. @Higgy: Thank you. Legs need time and they have a mind of their own; I think it took me two weeks to complete one. For two tube-like limbs they can be quite a hassle. Good luck with your girl!

      @JPhobia: I re-read my last post and realized it sounded more snippy than I meant. Please don't think your advice wasn't welcome (it really was!). It's just that when I want to show someone that I have thought about it, I can sound a little too direct. Hope I didn't offend you.
       
      #101 Silk, May 10, 2010
      Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2010
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    42. He is spectacular! You could try a smaller head on him if you wish for a different look, but I actually like him just the way he is, even if he may seem a little cartoonish-looking to some. The legs from heel to crotch and the torso from crotch to top of head should be equal lenght (so I'm told, correct me if this is wrong), maybe that's something to watch out for. Overall great work and I'm really looking forward to seeing more of this fine gentleman!
       
      #102 blue fairy, May 10, 2010
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    43. Wow just wow! Ive followed the progress you made quite from long ago, and its so nice to see him coming alicve! Whee!

      As for your question: Though i love him i will be honest, and i have to tell you, yes, the head is too big for the body in my opinion. :( What i would advice though, if your eyes are used to the seen image, it usually works if you set the doll/image in an another view. For example, turn it upside down or flip the image horizontal. (or at least it wporks for checking symmetry of a face. ^^)

      And again, hes wonderful! :D
       
      #103 moniee, May 10, 2010
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    44. Thank you, both. I'll see what I will do. Before I start casting him for real, I'll do some test with different silicon to see if I can shrink his head a bit.

      But... it could take a long time before I am ready to. Seriously, I don't mind sanding, but I now officially HATE coating. With a passion. Every time I'm almost done, every time I think I can spray the final layer, I do something stupid. I might drop the part I'm working on, causing the coating to chip, or - and this really shows the level of my intelligence- I pick up the part when it is still wet.
      And it is not as if I make one mistake and learn. Nooooo, I think I took the proverb 'practice makes perfect' to heart, because today I've done it again. For the fourth time. *sigh*

      Seriously, I've lost count of how many Mr. Surfacer-bottles I've used.

      On a more positive side: I found a shop in the Netherlands selling all the supplies I need (including a pressure pot). Monday I will order everything - aside from that pot, 'cause that one isn't in stock - and then it will only take a few days before I can start casting.

      question: Has anyone else used plywood to create the mold boxes? I'm worried too much dust comes from it.
       
      #104 Silk, Jun 12, 2010
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    45. snickers - you sure you're wearing a mask?? LOL this is actually what primer fumes do to your thinking and co-ordination....

      He's looking awesome by the way - regarding his head have you considered making a mold using alginate? - it shrinks on average by 5% - because of the moisture content in the alginate you would be restricted to casting in it with a plaster - but you could re-cast his head - make a plaster positive which would be 5% smaller, you can continue with this process until the head has reduced enough for your liking.... Alginate doesn't need to be used like regular silicone either - I can send you some life-casting links if you're interested in how best to use it...?

      You would probably loose small finer details in the process but it is an alternative to re-sculpting altogether. You final piece would be made of plaster - but using the same principles as paper-clay once its primed and sealed you can cast as per usual in silicone :)
       
      #105 whitewings, Jun 12, 2010
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    46. You can also mix thinners (such as naphtha) into the silicone for the head, as you mix it. The naphtha will evaporate as the mold cures, not sure if it takes a few days, and the more naphtha you add, the more the mold will eventually shrink. It may end up more brittle but you will get a smaller-than-the-original casting.

      If using plywood for the mold-boxes, you should probably seal the wood first, since it's porous it will want to grab the silicone more than a non-porous material. A sealer spray and then some mold release should fix that though, unless you want to give the ply a few coats of varnish, which then has to (ideally) dry for two weeks to harden properly.
       
      #106 twigling, Jun 12, 2010
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    47. #107 twigling, Jun 12, 2010
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    48. Thank you for the advice, whitewings and twigling, I'll see what I will do. One thing: I'm going to use plywood and treat it with a sealer spray and mold release (like you said, twigling). Already thought it might work, but just wanted to be sure.

      Turns out the reason I was so clumsy was because I was waiting for a migraine. Usually, the day before I'm dizzy, have a bad coordination and well... mess up almost everything. But now I'm fine so - of we go again!
       
      #108 Silk, Jun 16, 2010
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    49. Actually that would be a great way to shrink the original head - didnt even think to suggest this... IF she cast silicone in silicone with 15% thinners in the casting silicone - it would shrink the head by about 5% or roughly a third of whatever % you've added as a thinner.... again it would result in a second head that needed a new mould but wouldn't require any new materials... Taking the % of thinners any higher than this though would deform the finished piece and can cause your original mould to enlarge...
       
      #109 whitewings, Jun 16, 2010
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    50. OMG really??? Care to share where? I've been looking on secondhand sites and not really had much luck finding stuff in NL.
       
      #110 HystericalParoxysm, Jun 20, 2010
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    51. Sure. It's www.formx.nl, a Dutch distributor of smooth-on products located in Amsterdam. I'd contact them if I were you, because not everything they sell is on their website (like the pressure pot and Moldmax XLS II).
       
      #111 Silk, Jun 21, 2010
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    52. Sweet, thanks so much!
       
      #112 HystericalParoxysm, Jun 21, 2010
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    53. Pressure pot, silicone, resin, modeling clay, etc have all arrived, so this weekend I'm starting with the molding-process! I'm really excited if a bit nervous and even though I understand most of the process, some things still aren't clear to me.

      The biggest worry I have now is how in heaven's name I'm going to add pigment to the resin without creating a Frankenstein-doll (with every part a different shade of the colou that I want). But well, I'll just have to find out.
       
      #113 Silk, Jul 7, 2010
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    54. work out how much liquid is in each body part and then add your drops of pigment, always write down your experiments:
      example- right lower leg 50ml resin and catalyst, 4 drops caucasian pigment.
       
      #114 maggot, Jul 7, 2010
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    55. Wonderful Work~! I love his body~~^O^/
      Can't wait to see the finished photos!!!!
       
      #115 royalprincess, Jul 7, 2010
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    56. Thank you, Maggs. I always forget that I'm going to write everything I do down, so here I was panicking "Noes, how am I ever going to remember everything!" - Duh.

      One other question - and I don't know if you know this or someone else - if you pressurize the silicone and the resin, how long do you have to keep it in the pot. The entire demolding time? (24 hours for the silicone, 45 minutes for the resin)

      And is it possible to stack multiple molds inside the tank, or will this affect the outcome?

      EDIT: Thank you, Amily. Can't wait as well!
       
      #116 Silk, Jul 7, 2010
      Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2010
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    57. double post:

      Officially started with the molding and casting. First cast of Jeth's head in first post.






       
      #117 Silk, Jul 22, 2010
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    58. *u* He does look gentler in in resin. Good thing the bubbles didn't show on his face.
       
      #118 joankagami, Jul 22, 2010
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    59. Congratulations on the first cast! He's looking great! I'm following your adventures with interest. :)
       
      #119 Alewife, Jul 22, 2010
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    60. @Joankagami: He does, doesn't he? It's surprising to see how different parts of the sculpt look when they're casted. It is probably why I like the process (for now ;p).
      I'm glad the bubbles didn't show on his face, although I want to do something about those on the back of his head. All in all it is a great first try.

      @Alewife: Thanks! Nice of you to come by.
       
      #120 Silk, Jul 23, 2010
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