Flumo, cool cast, Easy slip and others

I think the artist at anchi.ru used flumo to make ball-jointed dolls, although she is now moving towards porcelain? My understanding is you need plaster molds to cast flumo. Patl made flumo head armatures for the 2008 artist workshop and it seemed quite strong, but honestly I was too busy sculpting to think about doing any stress-tests to the material.

If you can still get flumo or cool-cast in France and it is not too costly, I think you should try it, but personally I have no experience with it.

 

no help to you but WOW that is amazing painting

 

Cerisedolls Lillycat: Did you use a composition slip for your Blueberry Cupcake BJD?

Here is a BJD made from cold porcelain slip.
http://www.bjdartists.com/joints/showthread.php?t=3432

I will be using a doll composition slip when I'm ready to cast my BJD, however, I have not yet done any test stringing yet. I did cast a test piece, and baked it in the oven for 2 hours at 200degF. It seems to be quite strong. The walls of the test piece are 2mm thick. The shrinkage was about 6%.

 

Lillycat, do you get a headache when you cast the resin? Do you use a mask to protect yourself from the dangerous chemicals? Or do you mean a headache when you sand the dolls? Or something else?

~*Mystaia

 

That's what I thought. Did you make your cold porcelain from a recipe, or did you use a commercial cold porcelain? :confused:

Linda's weblog has more details:
http://lindamacariodolls.blogspot.com/2010/07/she-is-almost-ready.html

Because the last time I ever used this slip was about 20 years ago, and I baked it when I used it then. The temperature is very low (200 degrees Fahrenheit), and the baking time is short (2 hours).

No. It is not necessary to bake it. According to the label on this slip, it can also be air-dryed. The label states:

Air dry or place in oven at 200 degrees F for two hours.

I bake it because I believe it will be stronger if I bake it. I do not know if this is true. I have a background in ceramics, and with ceramics, baking the clay slip in a kiln makes it stronger.

All of the products you mention are only available in the EU (as far as I know). I do not know what they are made of.

There are many people making porcelain BJDs on the Enchanted Forum. They also use the spring-tensioning system for stringing their BJDs. See the Doll making Topic.

I am surprised to hear about so many people having allergic reactions to resin! :dead

I am going to be using CompoBell CS-1000 Doll Composition Slip. It is a vinyl doll composition slip. It is available from: The Bell Collection LLC. This type of vinyl is not soft. It is very hard after I bake it.

It is my understanding that all the doll composition slips available in the USA are vinyl composition slips. I am familar with three makers of doll composition slip in the USA: Duncan, Seeley, and CompoBell. The only one I have ever used was CompoBell, and I have always liked it, very much.

 

I think this: http://lindamacariodolls.blogspot.com/2010/07/she-is-almost-ready.html might be a picture of chihiro78's slipfast bjd?

I agree and understand that the trial and error process is irritating, it would be nice to just find material that works and doesn't cause allergic reactions.

 

I loved Flumo --- if we could still get it here, I would be happily experimenting with making bjds out of it --- it seemed very strong to me, depending on the thickness of the cast. and worked really well for the rough sculpting skull like things that i did with it. It didn't seem to cause me any problems with allergies which was wonderful... and it had a pleasant finish to the dry cast ---

I would love to see what you do with it if you decide to go ahead --- now i'll look for cool cast - I thought I had tried to order some from clayalley - but i think she didn't actually get it or something....

 

Hi Cerisedolls Lillycat,
I've read you would try cold porcelain for your beautiful dolls, mine was made using SlipFast and this is my experience:
1-I can paint the slip before casting using acrylic paints, you have to colour it more darker of final colour you want (some proof are recommended).
2-the pieces must be very good dry before stringing the doll or paints details but I've seen that mould lines and little flaws should be fixed at least two hours afer demold, the parts are quite fragile at this stage but you can smooth surface with brush and water.
3- Acrylic paints works great on this kind of material and I think you can reproduce the beautiful designs of your resin dolls very well.
Probably EasySlip is the best cold porcelain but is not available in europe, I've asked to Heinshobby (http://www.heins-hobbys.nl/) about this padico product but they don't resell it
Flumo will be probably the best choice for you, you should try it and show us your progress.
If you need more info about my experience with this material feel free to contact me, I'll be happy to help you

 

the plaster molds are a whole other thing than the silicone, be sure that there are no undercuts in your master . I am a newbie to this however, there are excellent books that help in this topic and this one should be good:
http://www.amazon.com/Hildegard-G-uuml;nzel/e/B001KIZ8H6/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0
I don't have this book but I was tempted to buy.
For the plaster mold the steps that I believe very important are:
-use good plaster (extra hard ceramic plaster)
-Use a good release agent (wax based) is frustrating not being able to remove the original from the model!
-Try try try: P

I use only slipfas that is not very good material for me, I think Flumo and EasySlip are very similar.
This kind of process is not my favourite way to creat my dolls, but worht to try becouse ispretty cheap and practice a lot on many fronts.

 

I can tell only for slipfast but I can say that is pretty hard and suitable for bjd

 

hello eveyone, i read the conversation, and i have some questions , 1) what do we use when we poore the slip inside the mold so the copy will not stick on plastel mold? on resin i was used a mix of vaselin and water can i use the same in plaster? 2) im going to order the Κeramin S - Extra Hard - Snow White
is a material from Glorex , cold porcelain slip , but the draying time is one 30 min. is that ok? i mean is ok the time to make my copy hollow? sorry for my to bud english ... i try to fix that

 

to Cerisedolls Lillycat: http://www.antichitabelsito.it/distaccante_ceroso.htm this is the kind I've used, the spry version. It's wonderful, create a smooth and trasparent protective layer on your master.Before try to make moulds with original sculpt is best if you try with something piece you don't care. I've learn many tricks making simple plaster moulds of balls for my ooak ball joints. You will learn how many layesr of releas agent you need, how to mixing plaster, times for hardening and demoulding.
http://www.antichitabelsito.it/gesso_dentistico.htmthis is the plaster used by dentists, it's very hard and catch perfect details of master.
If I can help you in any other way just ask me

to gerakina:
you should use slip cold porcelain like Flumo, EasySlip, Slipfast or similar. (all these products are liquid and ready to poured on your moulds) look at this site http://www.magicminiatures.com/TutorialFlumo.htm
I'm not sure if you can pour Keramin-s on plaster moulds, I don't know about this product but looks like syntetic porcelain. You should ask to Glorex...

 

Do not use a release agent when pouring slip in a plaster mold.
The plaster mold should be dry, but not too dry.
If the plaster mold is too dry, mist it slightly with water before pouring slip into it.
Pour the properly thinned slip into the mold in an uninterrupted stream.
Wait until the slip thickens to the proper thickness on the wall of the plaster mold.
Pour the excess slip out of the mold.
Let the casting dry for several hours before removing.

Test the thickness of the poured slip by cutting some slip in the spare.
When the slip is the proper thickness, pour the excess slip back into the slip jug.
What remains is the hollow casting.

 

So, as with porcelain, the plaster mold draws moisture out of the slip that is touching it, and this is why no mold release should be used?

I am so scared of plaster molds as I believe I make loads of undercuts in my sculpts that would lead to loads of mold sections and seam lines. BUT I would really like to try this at some point. I should start looking around for locally available casting slips.

 

Lilly, I love you. marry me

 

to chihiro78 i read about Flumo , but is not available to my country Greece, Keramin S is a cold porcelain slip i dont know if is Synthetic or not, but in the local store they told me that i can use only plaster mold for this material .
to KW as always your Help is a huge!!! thanks for sharing all the thing you know with us!!!
to all i found another material available, is
is a hobby cold porcelain what do you think about this?

 

Yes.
Plaster sucks.
A plaster mold absorbs the moisture from the slip, and as it does, the slip thickens where it comes in contact with the plaster mold wall.
When the slip has thickened to the proper thickness, the excess is poured back into the slip jug.
What is the proper thickness? You decide what the proper thickness is for the piece you are casting. Usually, from 1/8th inch to 1/4 inch thick for a typical doll part.
One important thing to be aware of is the size of the pouring sprue, known as the spare.
The spare is a pouring funnel, and a reservoir of slip to feed the casting.
Because the excess slip is poured out, the spare must be large enough to allow the excess slip to be poured back into the slip jug when the slip has thickened.
There are ways to get the slip out if the hole closes, but it is always easier to design it properly in the beginning.

This is the link to all the posts I have made on my weblog with the plaster tag.
http://atelierpoupee.blogspot.com/search/label/plaster

People are scared of plaster because plaster sucks. This is a good thing. However, it can also cause heartache when a pattern is locked in a mold due to undercuts, and not defining the parting lines properly. Plaster sticks to plaster. A suitable parting agent must be used when making multi-piece plaster molds. I use a soap/water solution in a 1:1 ratio. I apply the parting agent with a soft brush. I make a lather on the plaster and patterns in the coddles. This is done until there is a gloss or semi-gloss on the plaster and pattern. Then, and only then do I mix and pour the plaster.

Decades ago, when I taught others how to make multi-piece plaster molds, I had the students use a hard boiled egg as a pattern. The egg is cheap and small. It is a good pattern because if you don't get the parting line exactly right, the egg will be locked in the mold half. It is a good way to learn how to apply the parting agent.

As for parting agents, you can use other materials. Some of these are meant for rough molds that will not be used for a final piece, but are quick and easy for intermediate molds.
Thinned clay slip.
Vaseline (petroleum jelly)
Stearic acid (a wax)

However, the best parting agent for multi piece plaster molds is soap.
I've had the best results with Tincture of Green Soap (aka Hospital Soap).
Many of my mold making books recommend English Crown Soap.
I have found that I can use just about any liquid soap to make parting agent.

So, as with any other mold making experience, you need to know the properties of the mold material, the proper separator (parting agent) to use, and always remember to make registration keys. Since plaster is a rigid mold material, you should always be aware of the direction of removal of the mold pieces.

Even if a part gets locked in a mold piece, there are ways to get it out without destroying the pattern. One way is to make a saw cut in the middle of the mold part that comes to within 3/8 inch of the pattern, then use a wedge in the saw kerf and a hammer to break the mold piece and release the pattern. You can fix just about anything you make yourself. The hard boiled egg pattern is a good way to practice making plaster molds. Alternatively, use wax balls that you have rolled in your hands. If you make a good mold of the wax ball, you will have it to make reproductions of that size ball.

Plaster, when saturated in water, until it can no longer absorb anything into its walls, can be used to cast wax. A good use for this kind of mold is for casting Carving Wax.

Finally, I'd just like to remind everyone that Martha Armstrong-Hand's Learning To Be A Doll Artist has a very good plaster mold making tutorial in it. My all time favorite plaster mold making book is Plaster Mold and Model Making by Chaney & Skee. All the tricks I have learned about making plaster molds are in Chaney & Skee.

 

You may be able to find some more information about plaster mold making in this thread at the Enchanted forum which is all about making porcelain BJDs:
http://www.biscuitshouse.com/Enchanted/showpost.php?p=30489&postcount=1

 

hey llillyccat, i dindnt try the cold porcelain yet, im making my molds... now, silicon molds are totaly easy in comparision to plaster... , my doll have more carved face and body, i didnt fill the nose holes , but the problem wasnt there... the problem is the ears.... i make a coplex 3 part mold but i must do a new one again.. i think the tip with plaster is practice . thats way is so cheap!!!!!
kisses
Gerakina

 

The Parting Agent that I have been using successfully for the last 30+ years is a 50/50 solution (by volume) of liquid soap to water. The best soap that I have used has been Tincture of Green Soap, also known as Hospital Soap, which is available from local pharmacies, here in the USA. English Crown Soap is the soap most recommended in the mold making books that I have, and it may be more available to doll makers in the EU? These days, I can use just about any liquid soap. For example, yesterday I made a parting agent from some liquid hand soap in the bathroom.

Undercuts can be handled in different ways. Filling in things like nostrils is an easy way to do it, but you will have to sculpt them again on the final casting. Making multiple mold pieces is another way to approach undercuts, though you will probably have to do some extra work to the casting with a fettling knife and/or sand paper in order to clean the seam lines. Plaster mold making is a craft skill that is obtained by experience. It is a part of the process of doll making. Do not rush it! Take your time, and do just as good a job making the molds as you did sculpting the doll parts. Pay attention to detail. If you are inexperienced, and are afraid of locking a doll part in a plaster mold, consider doing an intermediate step, for example, molding the original doll part in moulage, casting that in carving wax, then molding the carving wax pattern in plaster.

There is no need to fear anything about plaster mold making. For example, if a part gets locked in a mold part, use a saw to cut a kerf in the back of the mold part to within 6mm of the pattern. Then use a small hammer to tap the wedge in the kerf to split the mold. The part will be easily released. Even plaster that has completely set is still relatively easy to work on. Remember that anything you make yourself can usually be fixed yourself. It is really empowering!

The hard boiled egg mold making exercise is a good one. The egg is not expensive, and the mold that is made is very small, so there isn't much wasted plaster. Alternatively, you can make clay or wax balls (roll them in your hands) and practice with them. If you are successful, you will end up with a set of molds of balls for ball joints! Another idea to practice plaster mold making might be to sculpt a small doll with only a few joints, and mold and cast her?

Yesterday I went to the Dollar store and saw packages of Xmas ornaments. These were very round, made of glass, very fragile, and were assorted in size. These would also make excellent practice patterns for learning how to make plaster molds. The spare could be modeled over the stem of the ornament. Here again, the successful plaster molds would be good for casting carving wax ball joints.

Finally, I would like to recommend the best plaster mold making book in the world.

Plaster Mold and Model Making.
Charles Chaney and Stanley Skee.
NY: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1973.
ISBN: 0442215118

While Chaney&Skee is not specifically about making plaster molds for dolls, it is full of the most practical plaster mold making information for making plaster molds for just about anything you want to cast. It is currently out-of-print, however, there are still used copies of the book available. I like to use used.addall.com to search for rare books.
http://used.addall.com/

Plaster mold making is one of the traditional doll making skills, and it is well worth taking the time to learn. Plaster is usually readily available all over the world, and compared to other mold making materials is relatively inexpensive. It can pick up fine details, like fingerprints. Many castings can be made from a plaster mold. A dry plaster mold can be used to cast liquid slip, and a water-saturated plaster mld can be used to cast wax. It is a very versatile mold making material.

Generally speaking, plaster is not a mold material that causes allergic reactions. Use common sense and avoid breathing the plaster dust. Keep your workspace and tools clean. I find it really helpful to rub some hand lotion on my hands after working with plaster because it can easily dry out your hands.

Finally, you might consider taking a look at the Doll making topic at the Enchanted forum which is all about making porcelain BJDs. See the Martha Armstrong-Hand's Method thread for more plaster mold making information.

Please ask any questions you have about plaster mold making, and I will try to make a helpful answer. I do not know it all, but I am fairly comfortable making plaster molds.

 

plaster mold making for slip casting

Re-read my previous post and you'll see that the brand of soap is not really important. I just remembered another brand that is recommended for soaping plaster molds: Murphy's Oil Soap. The other brands of soap that I have seen recommended are English Crown Soap, and Tincture of Green Soap. Experiment with some small practice molds, and decide for yourself which liquid soap work works best for you.

Note: I think most kinds of liquid soap will work. As I mentioned previously, I used liquid hand soap for the plaster mold I made yesterday. The mold separated perfectly. The liquid hand soap, alone, is quite thick. I mix the soap in a 1:1 ratio with water before I use it as a parting compound. That is, one part liquid soap to one part water by volume. It makes a nice lather when I apply it to the plaster mold. Make sure you remove all the soap suds from the mold before pouring the plaster.
From Chaney&Skee:
In soaping, do not use a thin consistency, keep the soap on the thick side.
Apply the liquid soap liberally over the plaster surface of the model or mold.
The plaster only take 15 or 20 seconds, to absorb the soap, which can be seen to soak in.
As soon as the plaster has absorbed this first coating, apply another coating of liquid soap.
Continue to repeat these procedures, alternately waiting for absorption and then resoaping the plaster, until a gloss appears on the plaster surface.
It may take as many as eight or ten repetitions, all within a few minutes to acquire this gloss.
When the gloss appears over the mold or model, enough soap has been applied.
(This gloss does not always remain; the plaster usually becomes semi-glossy or even dull after sitting a short while.)
Often, in the rush of things, doubt may arise as to whether you have or have not soaped a certain piece; in these cases, always soap again - play it safe.

Once again, I refer you to my weblog for more information about moulage (agar).
http://atelierpoupee.blogspot.com/search/label/moulage
Please read through that information, and continue asking questions. :confused:
Please forgive me for not knowing the French language very well.
I took one year of French in College, but it was many years ago.
I use Google for help with translations, and often go back and forth,
copy/pasting the translation from one language back into the original
until I get something that makes sense to me, going both ways.
This is a very poor excuse, but it is the best I can do.
English to French.
French to English.
In a pinch, if you are uncertain how to ask something in English, please ask me
in French, and I will try my best to figure it out. :confused:
Please avoid using colloquial or slang expressions, and check your spelling and grammar. (I do!)

I am very new to using carving wax, and made my own from a recipe given by waif.
waif uses a modified version of the carving wax recipe in Learning To Be A Doll Artist by Martha Armstrong-Hand. Martha uses the carving wax technique to make an intermediate doll pattern. She refines the carving wax doll parts, then makes the final plaster slip casting molds from the carving wax patterns. Carving wax is awesome stuff! Since I am also learning about carving wax, I'll once again refer you to information on my weblog:
http://atelierpoupee.blogspot.com/search/label/carving%20wax

I recently saw some wonderful 5-joint dolls that were really fabulous. They were very simple, but had such wonderful lines. They were not very tall, very chubby in torso and limbs, and had simple, yet elegant heads. Total pieces: six. Head, arms, legs, torso. Such a doll would be a quick sculpt, and would provide a wonderful way to gain experience making plaster multiple-piece molds, and gain experience slip casting as well. If done the right size, such a doll could be a doll's doll.

I am really sorry that I cannot answer this question, truthfully. With any technical subject, there is always a new vocabulary to learn. The vocabulary must be learned, not only by reading, but also by doing. All I know is that Chaney&Skee is the best book I have ever found about making plaster molds. I am going to say that this book is going to be difficult to understand at first, for anyone who is new to mold making, no matter what their native language is. Please rest assured that if you do have problems understanding any part of the book, you can ask your question to me, and I will certainly try my best to help you understand it. That is all I can offer.

I have a 5-gallon bucket, with two gallons of water in it. Right after I pour my mold, and turn off the vibrator, I take my mixing bowl, and any tools that have plaster on them, and I rinse them in the bucket of water. It is that simple. Never put any plaster (dry, wet, or set) in the drain ! Never! When there is an accumulation of plaster in the bottom of the bucket, I carefully drain off the water on top, then I discard the plaster in the bucket in the trash. I wrap it in old newspapers, then put that mess in a plastic bag and dispose of it in the trash.

As far as figuring out how much plaster to use, you can estimate it, or you can use arithmetic. With small molds, for doll parts, estimating how much plaster to mix is probably easier than doing arithmetic.

Plaster consistency is much more important to know than how much plaster to mix. Plaster sticks to plaster, so if you don't mix enough, you can always mix some more and pour over the first pour. Of course, it is always better to have enough plaster mixed to cover the pattern in the coddles on the first pour.

Returning to consistency. Plaster is always mixed in parts of water to 100 parts of plaster. It is very important to get each mold part the same consistency. If the mold parts are not the same consistency, then each part of the mold will absorb a different amount of water, and your casting will have different thickness of walls. The best castings have the same thickness of walls.

For mold making, a consistency of 67:100 (by weight) makes a very good slip casting mold.
That is 67 parts of water to 100 parts of plaster (by weight).
This is reduced to a 2:3 water to plaster ratio (by weight).
For example, for a small mold half, you want to use 200 grams of water.
You will measure and add 300 grams of plaster to the 200 grams of water, to get a 2:3 ratio, which is a 67 consistency.

Please keep asking questions until you understand everything. Full understanding will not come by reading alone. You must begin to make molds in order to learn the plaster mold making craft skill. When you start making molds, you will have new questions.

 

a simple doll to learn plaster mold making

This simple MYLING DOLL is the kind of doll I was thinking about when I mentioned designing and making a simple doll to learn plaster molding and casting.

There are only 6 pieces to the whole doll: head, torso, arms, legs.
Note that the hands and feet are not very complex.

Once a simple doll is molded and cast successfully, add more complex hands and feet.
Then repeat the mold making for the new doll.
Keep making the doll more complex, until you have molded and cast a fully articulated doll.
By then, you will be a master plaster mold maker.

Of course, this is just a suggestion.

 

basic plaster mold making tutorial

I found this basic plaster mold making tutorial today:
http://www.ginabellousdolls.com/molding_melissa_1.htm
http://www.ginabellousdolls.com/molding_melissa_2.htm
http://www.ginabellousdolls.com/molding_melissa_3.htm
http://www.ginabellousdolls.com/molding_melissa_4.htm
http://www.ginabellousdolls.com/molding_melissa_5.htm
It seems to cover most of the main points about making a plaster mold.

 

hello i just take thet anwser from the Glorex company that makes a cold porcelain product, the product is KERAMIN S SNOW WHITE, i just want to inform you all!!! im going to triet next week so i will let you now !!!

Dear Mrs. Pastogianni

Thanks for your request.
You can work with the Keramin S in the same way like porcelain. means u can hollow it, paint it, but with normal colors, or polish it.

Best regards

GLOREX AG
Jasmin Scheidegger

 

lillycat: no , do you know the link to that product?

 

Hi
I have some news regarding "Easy slip", I talked to hobbylink japan and they said they may be able to order the item from padico and then sell it in their store. HLJ has that "SAL" shipping option by boat? so the shipping costs would be really nice.
I will let you know as soon as I get a definitive answer from HLJ. =)

For now hobbylink japan has actual bjd kits from padico that are made with easy slip. http://www.hlj.com/product/PAD722002
I think it looks so cute ^^

 

Flumo - Air Drying Casting Slip

This company (SIO-2) appears to be located in Spain (part of the EU?), and makes or carries FLUMO - AIR DRYING CASTING SLIP.

http://www.sio-2.com/default.asp?idIdioma=3&idSeccion=catalogo&id1=10&aux=SIO-2_FLUMO

There is a technique sheet available (English language)
Technique Sheet SIO-2 FLUMO (eng).pdf

Pictures of the product available in various sizes:


Here is a map of the distributors, worldwide:
http://www.sio-2.com/default.asp?idIdioma=3&idSeccion=distribuidores
Note that France and Greece are listed.

Find a distributor in your area and contact them for prices and availablility.

 

Hi ^^
I have a question : Is the Flumo, or Doll Composition Slip in general, become yellow as resin P.U. over time ???

I think it's important, isn't it ?

 

yellowing of slip?

I do not know the answer to your question.
It is a very good question.
I'm sure it is important to doll makers AND doll collectors.

How long does it take for Polyurethane Resin to yellow?
6 months? 1 year? 5 years?

I'm going to guess that the speed at which PU Resin yellows is in
direct proportion to how long it is exposed to sunlight, and/or the
quality of the resin?

 

Flumo - Air Drying Casting Slip

Thank you for the papier mâché link, Lillycat!
I have already used the distributor link at SIO-2
to contact the person in the USA about obtaining
FLUMO - AIR DRYING CASTING SLIP.
She told me that it will be available in the USA towards
the end of January 2011. It is coming from Barcelona, Spain.

 

The P.U. Yellows very fast, when it's a French resin especially, like two months or more.
In the link of Aliciea, it's written that the Easy Slip is similar to bisque (whaaaat ? What's that ?) and will not change color.

 

Easy slip and others

I cannot say for sure, but I do not think that these casting slips yellow quite that fast, if they yellow at all? I just do not not know, for sure.

A Porcelain slip casting needs to be fired in a kiln to become permanent.
A bisque firing takes the casting from bone-dry greenware to bisque-ware.
A bisque fired casting has had all the atmospheric water, and chemically bound water fired out of it, and it has gone through a crystal inversion phase.
Once a casting has gone through the crystal inversion phase, it cannot become clay again.
The next step is to high fire the bisque casting.
Porcelain (depending on the clay body) may be high fired from come 06 to cone 10.
Pyrometric cones are used to measure the kiln temperature during firing.
Cone 06: ~1005 degrees Centigrade
Cone 10: ~1260 degrees Centigrade

With FLUMO, Easy Slip, CompoBell, and other doll composition slips,
a kiln is not needed. These slips can be poured like porcelain slip,
but they do not need to be fired in a kiln. They can air-dry or be baked in
a kitchen oven (~200 degrees Fahrenheit) to become hard.

 

Bisque porcelain is unglazed, white ceramic ware that is hard-fired, non-porous, and translucent.

 

Does the doll composition slip type products shrink significantly? I know the castings don't get fired like porcelain, but will they end up more or less the same size as the masters?

 

shrinkage of doll composition slip

I did a shrinkage test after I got the CompoBell CS-1000 doll composition slip.
http://atelierpoupee.blogspot.com/2010/09/shrinkage-test.html
With 1/16th inch shrinkage in every inch, my 24.625 inch doll master will be 23.0 inches
tall after the castings have been cured.
There is some shrinkage, but not very much.
24.625 in = 62.55 cm
23.000 in = 58.42 cm
I'm losing about 1.5 inches to shrinkage.

I do not know what the shrinkage is for FLUMO, Easy slip, and others. :confused:

Regular porcelain slip can have shrinkage as much as 18% to 20%.
That same 24 inch doll master cast in regular porcelain slip and fired
will be 19.2 inches tall when finished.
You have to make a 14 inch doll master to get an 11.2 inch fired porcelain doll.

 

Lillycat, I want try it eventually I think. Or maybe new and exciting non-toxic casting materials will be invented before I can get around to it. But in the meantime, I can still work with PU resin.

The shrinkage of composition slip sounds okay compared to true porcelain. I think no matter how prepared I was by sculpting something 20% bigger, I would still get used to the bigger master while working on it, and the size of the fired casting would be a shock to the system. It's something to get used to I suppose, just like everything else.

 

I understand your English just fine, Lillycat I am still working on the new doll in the WIP thread, keep finding things I want to change, now we want wider hips, so I have to find some bigger spheres to use, but other parts of her are mostly finished. I'd like to try Bioresin, but it's too expensive to import from the UK dealer, compared to regular PU. I'll have to look for it again and see if there are any Australian distributors.

And once I am ready (after making silicone molds first) I can maybe try making plaster molds for pouring composition slip. But first I have to finish my doll!!

 

hello everyone!!! i just try fastslip , flumo is not available to my country finally... notes: is extreme hard!! , is not easy to take hollow casts from small parts. is not complete liquid is more like cream from that you take a lot of junck casts... the material has "memory" small air bubbles come outduring the sanding procedure.
and fillaly i spend 1lt i still not have a good copy... but the super think is the price only 9 euro/1lt!!! i will post photos tomorow of the parts and the molds.
thanks gerakina

 

gerakina: Do you have any instructions for thinning the fastslip?

Most slips are composed of very fine particles suspended in some water and a deflocculant.
Some slips are thinned with a little distilled water, and other slips are thinned with a few drops of deflocculant. I am not familiar with fastslip, so I do not know.

I will be adding a few drops of deflocculant to my CompoBell CS-1000 doll composition slip, in order to thin it for pouring into molds with small parts, such as hands and feet.

 

http://www.hobbyland.it/eng/prod/00000018/00000482/00000489/5388.htm hello Kw , no i dont the inctruction on the bottle and the site is only on italian....
you think if i add a few water to work better with small parts?

 

You add water to slip to adjust the specific gravity.
You add deflocculant to slip to adjust the thickness.

There are two properties that can be adjusted with slip: specific gravity, and viscosity.
Specific gravity is adjusted by adding water.
Viscosity is adjusted by adding Slip Thinner, or a deflocculant, such as sodium silicate, in very small amounts.

There is more information about this at my weblog:
http://atelierpoupee.blogspot.com/2010/09/doll-composition-slip.html

I do not know if that will help or not, but I hope so.

If you do decide to try adding water to your slip, to try and thin it,
do your testing on a small amount of the slip, like 240ml. That way
you do not ruin the whole container of slip if it does not work.

 

I did a test cast with a slip called li-qua-che, which is an air dry slip.

I used a random body I had for the test....
Here is the pix of the result


The left body is normal paper clay and the one on the right is the casting slip.
It did shrink a lot if you ask me.

As for the actual slip it is a bit clumpy? or stringy but after it drys its really smooth I think its even more smoother then the original with the primer on it. Has sort of a plastic feel to it?
Also its really hard after it drys I tried to break it with my hands but I couldnt. I also droped it a few times but no damage.
There are a few tiny air bubbles but nothing major.

Before you pour the slip your suposed to mix the slip with distiled water a bit (5tbsp of distiled water per 8 ounces of slip)
When I poured it I did have some issues just coz the slip isnt "thin" rather a bit stringy so it didnt pass very well thru the hole in the mold, so using a syringe would have been much better.

Also it drys really fast you can demold after 20min and it drys to hard in a day or two. The end color of it is kinda off-white.

 

This seems to be some very good advice!
Pouring the slip into a new container through a sieve and nylon stocking filter is an excellent technique.
Thank you, Lillycat.

If plaster molds are really dry, it is also helpful to dampen them slightly, before use.

 

Who is the manufacturer of the li-qua-che?
Where did you purchase it?
What was the purchase price?
What size container?

Measuring the picture, it seems to be about 7% shrinkage.
88mm to 82mm

You may want to try the filtering technique mentioned by Lillycat.
When a casting slip is mixed properly, and is the proper viscosity, it should pour like cream.

That sounds very durable!
Can you fill the air bubbles with a brush, dipped in the slip?

[/QUOTE]Before you pour the slip your suposed to mix the slip with distiled water a bit (5tbsp of distiled water per 8 ounces of slip)
When I poured it I did have some issues just coz the slip isnt "thin" rather a bit stringy so it didnt pass very well thru the hole in the mold, so using a syringe would have been much better.[/QUOTE]

Even using a syringe, try filtering the slip first, into a new container.

After demolding, how long before you can pick it up and work on it? An hour or two?
It sounds like it sets up really fast!
I like the color.

Thank you for posting this, Aliciea. )

 

I think li-qua-che is originaly made in usa by a company called Activa. (i got mine from UK via friend)
This is the page for it: http://www.activaproducts.com/products/casting-mold-making-compound/li-qua-che

The reason why I think filtering isnt going to be good for this product is that it is "paper-fiber reinforced" as stated on the site (i just noticed). So by filtering I think you would just remove the fibers so the slip wouldnt bond to it self in the same way.

Im pretty sure you can fix the air bubbles once you demold, also I cleaned up the arm and leg holes once I demolded so if you are really gentle you can work on it right away. In the instructions it says that its best to make corrections in the first 6-8 hours after you demold.

It also states that it is water resistant once totaly cure, but not totaly water proof.

 

Thank you for the link, Aliciea.
That site also linked to a YouTube video about Li-Qua-Che.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GSCgYbcr28
The quality of the video is poor, but it has some good information.
I see that this is a polymer-based paper mache casting slip.
This is part 2 of the How To Use Li-Qua-Che video at YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEH3JsUQEIc