40–49cm Dolls First project: 1/4 centaur- critiques please!

Well I certainly never thought I'd be here. I'm much more of a paper, paint, or fabric sort of artist- I've never been a sculptor! It's amazing what frustration with the current selection of dolls and a good dose of inspiration can do.

So here I am with my first doll. It's taken me awhile to get up the nerve to post anything, so I'm a ways along already. I'm hoping to have him finished by the end of January, but I don't know if I'll make my deadline. My 18 month old makes it hard to work on him for more than 15 minutes at a time, and I started the last week of October- not the fastest progress. Anyway, on to some pics.


This was right after I'd gotten the torso shaped and I was checking against my conept drawing. Not the best start, but it gets better.



The horse torso blocked out and covered in the first layer of clay. I had originally intended to sculpt the torso in three pieces, but then I decided to do it as one and chop it up later. Unfortunately, I forgot to shorten my foam blocks so it's too long.



At this point, I've fleshed out both torsos quite a bit, and I noticed how very asymetrical the muscles in the human torso were, so I have marks all over it in anticipation of re-doing the muscles on one side.



Got the base for the legs cut out. These are going to be a huge pain I can already tell.



I finally solved the worst of my symetry problems on the human torso, and I bulked up the horse part so the two pieces fit together better.



I got brave and cut it apart. I don't think I've done anything this scary in quite some time!




Okay, that's all for now, but I've actually made some progress since I took these, so with any luck I can get some pics today and post the updates tomorrow. Since I am so new to the whole sculpting thing, any tips or advice or even just opinions would really help me out. Oh, and if anyone has any advice for sculpting his, um, horsey bits, that would really be appreciated.

 

Thanks for the positive comments guys! It makes me feel like maybe this wasn't as insane as I thought it was!

Since I was just planning on this being a little experiment in the beginning, I just got whatever supplies I could find that I thoght would work. I'm using basic cheap floral foam for my base, and the clay is actually a mixture. When I went looking for clay I found one package of La Doll, but I needed two, so after reading labels and much squishing of packages, I got one called Plus. The two have to be mixed together in small batches or it seems to get hard really fast, but it's lighter weight than just the Plus and stronger than just the La Doll. I really lucked out and like it really well. It does tend to crack on the first layer since it shrinks a bit, but I do so much layering and sanding that it desn't matter. I don't have any kind of wire or support in the legs, so I hav to be really careful with them until they dry. I'm hoping to do jointed hands for him, but we'll just have to wait and see on that one. I'm not sure if I'm up to the challenge.

I took some more pics so you can see what I've finished on the torso. It's still rough, but it's getting there. Now I just need to post a decent picture of his head.

 

I'm still not 100% decided about his leg joints. I really love the way Soom hooved legs are made, so I'm probably going to try to base the joint design on their legs. His will have to work a little bit diffferently, but I think the basic concept will work great for him. And besides, the Soom joints are just pretty. Once again though, what I can actually make may be a whole other story!

 

So it's not the best photo, but I wanted to put a pic of his head up here. As probably anyone can tell, his eye area has been giving me fits, and I think his head is still too short (not enough forehead- it shows really bad when I put a wig on him) But at least he's started. I mostly like his nose, (but it's not symetrical- especially at the bridge) and his lips are pretty good, but need to be reshaped a little. (He's loosely based on my husband who has the best mouth shape ever. )

Suggestions anyone?

 

dread_fairy: The horse chest is large- I don't like the way most centaurs look like they're human torsos on pony bodies. I'm going for a more in-scale look. All of my reference pics are clydesdales or shires, so I felt like it needed to be fuller. And I think (hope) he will look more balanced with arms. I also think he'll look much different when his legs are ready.
As for the Soom joints, mostly I love the way they're shaped and how clean they look when standing and the way they lock. I'm going to try to do double joints in the knees, so the gapping thing won't be an issue. At least that's the plan....


Okay, now for an update. I've been working exclusively on his head, and it's time to set it aside for awhile so I don't get totally frustrated. I think eye symmetry is going to be the death of me. At least his mouth and nose are finally getting there!

 

Okay, so the holidays pretty much nixed all of my sculpting time, which means I don't have very satisfying progress to show.

I filled out his ears a bit, (but haven't gone back to fix the asymmetry) and I've done an awful lot of work inside his head. The eyewells are more fully shaped, I made the support for his s-hook to rest on, finished out the spots for the magnets, and made the tab for his headcap. He actually has a working headcap now! I was so excited that it actually functions! I really wasn't sure if I could get it to fit right. (Now if I could only fix that one eye...) I just started his hands- they're still in that skeleton skinny phase since I only got the base layer of clay put on, but at least you can tell how they're shaped. I'm sorry the pics aren't very good- lighting in my house is pitiful in winter, so I always have to use a flash.

His arms are mostly roughed out, but I forgot to take any pics, so that will have to wait for next time. I also cut another joint into his torso (at the waist) since he just wasn't going to be able to move the way I wanted him to, and I've been fiddling and tweaking trying to get the joints shaped just right, buuuut I forgot to take pics of that too. :dead I wish I could find the time to work on his legs, but that will require a few hours all at once, so I'm trying to be patient.

As always, any suggestions or critiques are very welcome! (I figure I can use all the help I can get!)

 

Okay, so I've decided that I really want to get him finished (at least the rough sculpting) by my original deadline, so I'm going to try to work at least an hour every night. Yesterday it felt like I made really good progress. I got the arms shaped a bit and started rounding out the joints. I built up the wrist joints and lengthened the palms so that the hands are better balanced. I also moved the thumb on the right hand down about 3mm since it looked really akward after I got the palms finished and added the wrist joint.






patl: Maybe I should have posted a pic like this one too. I actually already have the magnets in his head. I'm planning on making a pair of antlers and maybe some ram horns for him.




And thanks to everyone for being so positive and encouraging! It's really nice to have a place to post things without being afraid of people just picking it apart without helping. This forum is awesome.

 

Sorry- I had a photobucket issue. The pics should all be working again.

Really? I'd love to see some more people work on stuff like this! It can be so frustrating, and it would be cool to have someone working through the same sorts of problems! I hope you'll keep working on yours and share some pics.

And to everyone who has posted a positive comment- Thank you! It really does help keep me motivated knowing that other people out there have an interest in what I'm doing and would like to see this finished.

Update: this has been a really rough week and I haven't been able to work on him almost at all. However, tomorrow I'm cashing in one of my babysitting vouchers from my m.i.l. so I should have some progress pics up tomorrow evening. Keep your fingers crossed that it's a good sculpting day!

 

The magnets aren't visible on the outside. They're actually embedded in the clay of his head. I leave ones on the outside as references to where the inner ones are.

Yeah, the legs were totally in the wrong spots. I actually started working on the front legs and the front part of the horse torso again, and I still haven't decided if I like where the legs are. I've actually lowered them about 2 1/2 or 3 cm from where they were, and that helped out alot, but I can't decide if I like where they are or they need to be moved out to the sides more. It would help if I had a real horse to look at instead of just whatever images I can scrounge up.

I've started working on the stops inside the human torso so that someday I will be able to show off his awesome range of motion, though I know you can't see them. I finally have working joints in his arms. They aren't pretty or symmetrical yet, but they are finally coming along. (Please forgive that the clay wasn't quite all the way dry on those so they look funny) His hands are as finished as I can get them without primering and sanding. I'll have to take a close up pic when I actually have some light. His front legs are roughly shaped. I'll have to wait until I have the joints pretty well done before I go and put the details in or I'll just mess them all up.

Now the exciting part of my update: the only pic I could be bothered with posting. Really I would've posted more, but almost all of them came out horribly blurry. (Yes, even worse than this one) Oh well. It was so exciting to even temporarily string my centaur (even if it's only the front half of him!) I was probably shaking. Next time I post a pic he'll have leg joints, because after I took this I kept working, and his legs are now in four pieces. Only one cut apiece left to go!

 

Thanks! Chiron kinda let me down. I like the really big, brawny, shaggy horses, and Chiron had the body of a new-born colt!
As for his legs, are you saying that it doesn't look like the actual clay will be able to hold up the doll, or is it that the legs look too skinny to realistically support the weight of the animal? If it's the former, I can assure you that it's solid enough to support him, but if it's the latter, I'm going to have to laugh, because I kept staring at the legs thinking they were too thick! I guess not though. I still have to add all of the furry stuff around the bottom half of his legs, and they still need shaping and some muscling, so I know they'll be a little thicker when they're finished. Keep an eye on him and let me know if you think they need to be bulked up more.

Thank you! The La Doll is not sturdy enough on it's own for my tastes; I mixed it half and half with another clay that is very hard and got a really nice (to me) working consistency and durability. It is definately lighter and softer than Apoxie, and has a very different texture.

littlelady67- Thanks for the comments! So many people on this forum really inspire me, so it's kinda fantasic that I could inspire someone else!

 

Alrighty then, on to the fun part. I don't have very much to update because I haven't gotten to work on him almost at all the last couple of weeks. I've been trying to get his leg joints functioning, and I can tell this is going to be a looooong process. Somedays I wish I had enough sense to just start with the small and easy projects. I at least have the ankle joints roughed in pretty well, so I thought I'd show that. Although I haven't been able to decide if I want to do the little notches inside the cup of the joint so that it will lock in several positions, or if I want to leave it plain so that it will lock in the standing position only and move smoothly the rest of the time. So many choices. After that frustration, I treated myself to doing something fun and started on some of the foot furries (sorry- I already forgot what that stuff is really called.)

I also thought I would post a comparison I took the other day with my Unoa to give a better idea of his proportions. I know it's a bad picture, but clay dust+camera lens= bad photo. Lesson learned.

 

Thank you! Do you have any pics of your project? I would really like to see how you're going about things if you don't mind sharing.


wulfae: I see what you're saying. I want him to be able to stand with his feet either close together or far apart (think of the classic cartoon horse coming to a really sudden stop) but the default position for his legs probably should be with his hooves closer. And yes, I did want his legs longer than a regular horse, hopefully similar in style to the way a human bjd has longer legs than a real human. Do you think they look awkward this length? Should I shorten them some?
Feathers! Yes! That's the weird word. I would never associate feathers with horses, so I can never remember the term. I did a quick trial the other night and it shouldn't interfere with his movements at all. I'm trying for that slightly windblown look so it won't be just hanging straight down- sort of like Chiron's tail.
That line drawing is great! That got saved to my reference folder almost instantly. It really helps that they put in the points where the joints and the spine would be. I have a good pic saved of a skeleton, but I have a hard time relating it to an actual fleshy horse.


oki: I think you're right on all counts. I went back and scoured flickr for some ideas, and the knee (I know it's not but I'm calling it that anyway) definately needs to be bigger. I'm going to try to play with his joints some more to see if I can get the right stance. And hey, I never mind long explanations, especially when they help!

Thanks! I obssessed over his head for the better part of four weeks, so it's good to know it matches pretty well. If he seems bigger than he is maybe that means he'll have a strong presence when he's finished?



I strung his legs back up and did a test with his joints sitting a bit differently. What do you guys think? Better? Worse? And please ignore the bits of tissue in his left leg- I haven't worked on that side as much, so it doesn't fit together very well yet. I'm going to bulk up the look of his joints a bit tonight and try to get the actual joints to fit together better. On the plus side- I had to use toothpicks to keep his knees straight, but after that it was actually fairly easy to get his front horsey half to stand. I never would have guessed that it would balance on it's own.

 

Finally! Progress to report! After my last post I had to walk away from it for a couple days to keep from getting too frustrated, and then life got in the way and I couldn't sculpt for two weeks.

I want to say a huge thank you to everyone gave me those links! They were all really helpful in figuring out where the problems were.

And I should apologize in advance for the pics. My worktable is completely covered, so I had to take photos in my bathroom at night. Not the best set up.

First things first, I think I'm getting somewhere on the front legs. I moved the hip sockets further down and forward a little, and added some clay around the edge so that the lines are a bit cleaner. I've added a tiny bit of clay on the joints to make them stand out more, and I've also carved away some material to emphasize the joints. I started adding some muscle to the thigh area (which is why they are so horribly asymmetrical) and added the locking mechanism to the joints. He stands on his own pretty well now. I still have to refine the joints because they're pretty rough, but I definately feel like I'm closer to the finish line now.




While I took some time off from the legs I had a chance to really think about his hands, and I've tweaked those too. I bulked up the fingers and added definition to the backs. I need to fill in the fingers on his right hand as they still look too small, but I think the left is about where I want it. I started carving in fingernails, but I don't think you can see them on these pics. The hands may not be finished, but they're getting close.




Also, after six unsuccessful tries, my seventh elbow joints are actually staying. Yeah, that right. I said "seventh". :dead I. Hate. Elbows. At least I didn't have to redo the entire arm seven times! I need to go back and try force them into something that at least resembles symmetry. They also don't have the little side bits so they rotate all around and won't lock into place the way I want them to. At least they're there. I also bulked up the arms a bit, but I'm going to have to add more. His chest didn't seem nearly so big until I put arms next to it. Oh well. He'll definately fulfill my concept of muscley and powerful! Hulk smash!

 

Thanks for the comments everyone! I'm starting to feel like he's coming together well, and it really makes me feel good that other people like him too!

I worked on filling out his arms, and while they aren't finished, I think they're much better now. I also thickened up his hands some more so they don't look so much like girl hands. :p

Stringing him all together like this made it clear just how much work I still need to do on his joints. With all the extra weight of his human parts he gets really squirrelly because the fit on his joints isn't precise enough. Seems like every time I think I've made real progress I just realize how far I am from getting finished.

patl: I have a plan for the horse torso but only time will tell if it will work. I've started on the joints, so hopefully in another week or two I'll actually have something to show for my efforts.

(And please try to ignore the absolute disaster of my work table. I wish I could say it's normally cleaner, but I'll be honest- I work best in total chaos and I'm a slob!)