First of all, I want to say that I am relatively new to the ABJD collecting community. I am not so much a doll collector, as a doll maker. However, as a member of The Joint, I am very happy to see everyone's designs. In spite of that, I follow my own doll making path, as documented by my daily weblog. I am a Big Fan of Martha Armstrong-Hand's Method, and I make no question of that. It is at this forum that I first saw the doll designs of Enaibi, a talented doll artist. Recently, I became aware that an Asian BJD company has copied her designs. My posts to Den Of Angels, regarding this theft, were deleted. The doll company in question is LeekeWorld. The doll in question is Mikhaila. I first saw the pear-shaped Art Doll body here, at The Joint, made by Enaibi. I made a complaint at DoA, and my posts were deleted. This is an obvious theft. Take a look : http://www.flickr.com/photos/aeldredolls/5539199497/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/petite-chose/5536441447/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/petite-chose/5550955787/ Boycott LeekeWorld. What else can we do?
wait, wait, I'm not sure I see the copying here. Leeke for one thing has been going in this direction for years, and for another, if you look at the bodies of leeke and enaibi...enaibi's is obviously more cartoony compared to leeke's relative realistic fleshiness...? A similar body type does not plagiarism make...right?
Depending on when you posted on DoA, your threads could have been removed because the topic has already been discussed (with threads dating back to March this year), albeit with a focus on Dust of Dolls vs. Leeke. However, similarities with Enaibi's work are also put forth. Statements from both sides Mikhaila discussion thread Boycott campaign on flickr (also mentioning Enaibi)
No offense, but this is seriously old news. It has been rehashed about a million times already on about 5 different forums. In addition, the body is not alleged to be copied from Enaibi, it is alleged to be copied from Dust of Doll Puns. Regarding your posts on DoA, please read the threads that aneemal linked. You are coming in to peaceful threads and trying to present 6-month old information as though it is new.
Dust of Dolls are now focussing their attack of Nefer Kane and her sculpt A(n), which they feel is too close to heir PUNs design. Nefer Kane is taking them to court to fight it out. At this point, I am more than anything disgusted by the way DustofDolls are handling things, concentrate on making beautiful dolls and stop going around accusing others of "copying" a bodyshape that nobody has the right to own. Edited to add: http://www.denofangels.com/joints/showpost.php?p=26026&postcount=21
So what is DoD the ass police now?Maybe I'll copywrite doll eyes shaped like almonds or ovals and all you copycats will have to make square eyes or triangles from now on or I"ll sue you into oblivion.This is ridiculous beyond reason and the only winners of this drama will be the lawyers.I feel sorry for Nefer Kane being singled out as stylistically similar dolls were being made in other types of dolls than bjds before DoD came along.Badly handled.
My doll has tits, everyone else who has made dolls with tits, breasts boobs or gazongas must cut them off immediately!
Guys, I don't think that Kwmelvin knew, that's all. No need to get so upset over it. Enaibi is after all one of our own, and I like that we're willing to stick up for eachother- think of it that way.
I don't feel like this is sticking up for anyone. I'm really upset to hear about Nefer Kane... people are way too ready to call copying now and I feel that really is a way to kill a wonderful community of artists.
OK, Holy shit. I've been following the Nefer Kane debacle and up until this point I thought it was a couple of Dust of Dolls fans white-knighting. I assumed the DoD company itself would either keep out of it or issue a statement about A(n) not being a copy of their Puns. I'm very shocked by this latest development. Very, very bad publicity for the dust of dolls company - especially after Nefer supported them through the leekeworld copying scandal. The doll comunitiy is too full of this kind of drama. It makes me really sad.
It's a situation where no one really wins. Fans from both ends will end up angry, and start white-knighting across the web. What if this starts a trend of accusations to wipe out the competition? How many of us could afford a lawsuit?
How sad that this hobby is marred by such AWFUL things. Do they have such low tolerance? Are you expected to fight back for a small thing you deemed an insult? An eye for an eye makes the world go blind~ What is their problem?! No point taking sides here coz none of us are gods, so we can't know for certain who is right and who is wrong or what is the absolute truth.
I do see what you guys mean, and I can appreciate both sides of the fence. Being a painter- your own personal "style" is something you have to stick up for- especially if it's what puts bread on the table. If someone clearly bites your work and they get paid, you raise hell- they stop, or get turned away from galleries. Sculptures are something I find really rarely mimicked- let alone prosecuted- over style and I can understand how subjective it is, but still.. It's something that someone spent a lot of time into. If it's replicated to the point of indistinguishable differences, and it's hindering a profit- it CAN be considered plagiarism.
I think there are different types of collectors who would go for a Püns or an A(n). Collectors of porcelain dolls are more inclined to buy artist dolls that are not meant for customisation save for the clothes and maybe the wig. Resin dolls can be repainted again and again and even modded by sanding and carving material away. Some people collect both porcelain and resin dolls, but someone who wants a porcelain doll is unlikely to buy a Püns and someone who wants a resin doll is unlikely to buy an A(n). I just don't see how Dust of Dolls is losing customers over this particular doll.
And even if both dolls were in resin or porcelain, A(n) and Pun are distinctly different. And on the competition thing. That's how business works. That's how capitalism works at least here in the US. Maybe things are a bit different over there in France, but I can't imagine it being markedly so. Someone comes out with a product, someone else comes out with a similar product that appeals to a different and sometimes slightly the same group of people. Kind of like how we now have 50 different tablets on the market after the iPad. And in the end people will buy what they like and what works for them. No one company can have a monopoly on an idea.
Leeke's doll is a copy of DoD's Puns but it's very unfair to assume that A(n) is a direct copy like Leeke's is. It's probably more sensible to assume that she might've been influenced by Puns and if she is, then so what? It's not like I've not seen two dozen dolls on here which have been heavily by Marina Bychkova and by Gentaro Araki (Unoa).... Even Company dolls are using Unoa knees and bust joints. I don't think anyone on here is guilt free of being influenced by a style or a kind of joint. Besides Nefer is one of us; someone doing it on their dining table/floor. She isn't an internationally recognized company... That's the thing that pisses me off. The most we can hope to do is to buy from the right person.
See- this is the part I'm confused about. I've seen Nefer's doll and I don't see that much of a similarity. Maybe one or two things happen to be the same, but over-all, they're completely different. I have seen SO MANY marina ripoffs- (ahem- http://lavendeleyes.deviantart.com/ Ahem...) but they go unnoticed.. I think that Leeke has a fire under their ass and they want to lash out at the first person they can. I don't think it'll hold up in court- then again, I don't know the french's legal system either. :/
It's Dust of Dolls going after Nefer Kane, not Leeke. Nefer Kane is an artist in her own right who has been making dolls for awhile for a living... it isn't as though she doesn't have a style of her own and needs to copy Dust of Dolls. It's really insulting to her, I think, to say that because her doll has broad hips, it's somehow related to Puns. Puns is a really cool doll, but I just don't think she's as massively influential or ground-breaking as people are acting like she is... the broad-hipped female shape may be new to resin BJD, but it's a visual archetype that is thousands of years old.
True, and there are so many different types of body types and thousands more variations. Hard to tell the difference from real copying to influence to originality
it wasn't just kw who didn't know, I didn't get the memo about any of this drama either. O_O Was there ever a consensus about Leeke vs Dust?
Are these two not about as similar as A(n) and Puns...? Left: Kröt - Ptah by • Dust of Dolls • Right: Diabolgrenadine Paperdoll by Lillycat's Cerisedolls I know there are stark differences, but that's half my point! The other half is that I guess it's okay between friends. It's not my intention to stir matters, but I just thought this quite ironic.
I find this law suit very disheartening. Yesterday I've been sketching some designs for the next doll I want to make after my current project and of all designs I could say "Looks a bit like what [...] did." regardless of the fact that my sketches are based on how I've been drawing humans for years. I hope this case gets settled the right way, because right now it's draining all the creative energy out of me.
This makes me think, and what about the people, like me, who are just starting and haven't gotten their style down, or what if you just want to experiment. Should one not be able to create a certain style of leg or rump or shape that they may like simple because someone else has done it before. I'm very much a visual person and if I see a design style I like, I often times want to use/try it, would something like that now be taking things to far?
With this being a counterfeiting accusation I think the court needs to made to understand the nature of the doll hobby. I am sure that no potential Puns buyer is going to buy one of Nefer Kane's porcelain dolls by mistake. To the outsider most BJDs probably look alike and perhaps the strong distinction doll collectors make between resin and porcelain dolls would be lost on them. But to a doll hobbyist, there is no way these two dolls would be easilly confused. Looking around online all the doll people think this litigation is ridiculous but I worry that outsiders won't understand the significant differences between the dolls. Aside from that, I think DoD are insane to persue this. Surely they've squandered all the goodwill they garnered from the Leeke scandal and will have alienated a lot of their fans.
I was going to say that I am glad that the people who are worried about this case are more civil than the rabid pro-Dust of Dolls and pro-LeekwWorld fans were, but sadly I have seen that some people still resort to internet flame war tactics. That will never make anyone look good. So far I'm glad that Nefer Kane as hired a lawyer and appears to be willing to fight this battle where it matters: in court. Hopefully she will be able to make these ridiculous charges go away.
Some have written on Nefer's FB wall that she is taking a break for a while because the case has ended in the favour of DoD. Whether that's because she couldn't sustain the fight, or whether there was a judgment in their favour, is not clear.
This makes me nauseous. And the fact that she has to start all over and most likely can't sell A(n) is ridiculous.
I think what discobiscuit said in post #25 rings very true. Even if A(n) and Puns look remotely similar though, I don't believe Nefer created A(n) intentionally to look like Puns, and I don't think it is a counterfeit. It's just ridiculous.... I'm horrified.
Oh wow.. I don't even know what to say. I am in shock. Did they actually win the case or was she just unable to fight it? With this definition of copy, where does one draw the line? Using the amount of similarities between A(n) and Puns, I am sure I could link together every BJD as a "copy" of another. Should everyone start suing everyone who created a similar doll after there's? I can just picture a dominoes of law suits ending with Volks. I just can't imagine what Nefer Kane is going through. If this happened to me I am sure I would be absolutely crushed. I am very scared for the future. I mean, I have been working on my doll for years. In that time, dolls have come out similar to what I've always envisioned but was unable to execute at the time. Should I worry about fairyland of iplehouse suing me because we happen to have similar visions of what we want in a doll? I don't really think these "bigger" companies would waste their time, but if they did could I loose everything I have been working for over the past few years? I really hope Dust of Dolls understand what they did. I feel like such a fool for standing up for them on the Leeke issue. Copying pisses me off, but I'd much rather lax copyright laws than have honest, hardworking people get screwed like this. I just think of people like Marina Bychkova. I have seen so many dolls that are blatant ripoffs of her's, but you don't see her suing anyone. Instead she works hard and makes sure people have a reason to choose her dolls. I am not saying people should stand for their work being blatantly copied, but stooping so low as to pick on the first person who can't properly defend themselves.. I just don't have words.
If it's true that Nefer has lost/can't fight then this is very sad. Even people who aren't in the doll hobby that I know can tell that the similarities between Puns and A(n) are so minute that there's no way that Nefer could have copied them. I can completely understand not wanting your work copied (I've had issues with people copying my work before after all) but to go after someone whose work is only vaguely similar to yours is wrong. It's like... Madame Alexander going after Mattel (or vice versa) because both of them make dolls. MA's style is different from Mattel's, and their markets are different. Urg... This jsut... I have a headache now...
I really hate to make judgment without having all the facts, and for whatever reason DoD can't or won't speak up their half. Even if it's by advice of lawyer I think it's a bad move if the story isn't completely true and they have some defense to make because it leaves a negative impression of them. So I have to assume everything put forth is completely true and DoD has sued Nefer Kane for counterfeiting their doll Puns. It's a ridiculous claim to make, I don't even know how it could hold up in court even if the judge has no knowledge of artist dolls, the only resemblance between these two dolls is vaguely in the overall shape, but otherwise Nefer Kane has a distinctive style that's readily apparent. So I'm saddened to read the facebook post and that she seems to say DoD has 'won', I really hope this is not the end of the case. This whole thing is unbelievable, stupid, and VERY shameful, for reasons members of the joint have already discussed in these 4 pages. Hopefully DoD will explain themselves soon.
But did they "win" the case or did they just crush Nefer's spirit, and keep her from making a living this month? Is that a win in their eyes? Nefer depends on her sales to feed her family. She has no need to copy anyone. I supported DOD in their fight against Leeke but this I can't support. Its just too different. Wide hips have existed for the ages. Human characteristics. We all "copy" the gran design or exaggerate them to fir our needs. This is not counterfeiting.when dolls are based on humans. She didn't mold "Puns" and copy directly,that is counterfeiting. Her(Nefe's) work process was plainly taken in photos on her site. People have been awful to her and she needs her peace. I only hope DOD can come to their senses..
I'm a bit heartbroken over this. Poor Nefer Kane! This is a major blow to the sculpting community. What then, can anyone stop any of us from making a living at what we love just because they don't want competition?
I haven't been visiting following all the hubub goings on lately. Geeze! I'm not so sure I want to submit my prototype now. I'm afraid of being accused of stealing! It makes me really sad for the doll community too. If my doll was thought of well enough to enhance someone else's, I would be honored, not mad! There are enough people in the world who would want to buy from whomever they like best. Right? Even if there are similarities they aren't going to be exactly the same. "Can't we all just get along?" to coin a phrase! Pear shape, A shape, B or 8 shape, or lumpy shape....what difference does it make? Laughingly, my husband said why don't you make ball jointed boobs. Then you can change from A cup to Double D's! LOL! Hey, you never know what might work! Wasn't there a Skipper doll that went from flat to puberty sized bumps a long while back? If so, one might want to reconsider ball jointed boobs! As if.....Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! Please don't get me wrong, I'm saddened for Nefer too, but golly Ollie, I hope we can move forward, lighten up, laugh again and get back to work doing what we love to do! I don't mean to step on any toes here, so please forgive me if anyone is offended. Dang! Apologizing again already! What's the deal? Trying to keep the peace... Cheers!
Lulz... Why did I get a sudden image of a Lumpy Space Princess doll? And that Skipper you're talking about was a very interesting doll. I'd love to get my hands on her to see how she actually works, but what I do know is that the upper torso is designed somehow that when you rotate her left arm (I believe) she grows a little bit taller and her chest somehow expands. It was quite controversial when she came out.
Good to see Nefer is back to doll making. I really love some of those heads. Dust of Dolls left a message on their facebook page saying that they will comment on the case when the time is right.
Good for Nefer Kane, that's the best attitude. Ok I'm waiting (and waiting) to hear what DoD will say.
