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Cheapest starting point - buy or make?

Dec 17, 2019

    1. I have a dilemma I'm hoping someone here can help me out with. The explanation is a little long-winded, so bear with me... or don't. This is the internet and I guess you can just click away if you want. Also, I apologize if I'm posting this in the wrong place.

      I have a series of specific costume designs that I've been wanting to make for a long time, but realizing that it would be too ambitious and costly for life-size, I decided to go with dolls instead. I've been a collector of porcelains since I was a child (courtesy of my grandmother, who left me some of her dolls), but porcelains don't seem to have universal sizes, and also no longer seem to be popular, so I want to try creating for BJDs instead. BJDs are certainly more flexible (pun intended) when it comes to what you can do with creative photography, which would be ideal when it's time to photograph the costumes.

      But BJDs are ludicrously expensive for the ideal size. At the moment I'm looking at either Dollshe Amanda Beauty 26F Classic Maxi, or Iplehouse Elf Grace SID or Raffine EID. All three are over $500 or $600 each with shipping, even with Christmas sale prices and without faceup or wig. I don't think I can justify spending that much on a doll. If I could, I would just borrow a doll to test fit and "model" the costumes on, and sell the costumes until I have enough money to buy my own BJD. But alas, I don't know any collectors I can borrow from.

      The other option is making my own dolls. I do have specific design ideas which, so far as know, aren't available anywhere in the BJD market. Creating a unique doll and unique costumes for said doll would be both an enjoyable and potentially lucrative endeavor... if I'm successful in my sculpting, which I'm unsure of. I tend to be fairly successful learning new artistic skills, but not always. I'm also unsure of what the cost of such a project might be, so I may just end up spending a lot of money on something that will ultimately fail. At least with a purchased doll, I know what I'm getting, and I already know how to sew. Again, the smart thing to do would be to sell costumes for other BJDs until I've earned enough money for the materials to make my own doll, but that puts me at square one; I don't own a BJD, and I don't know anyone I can borrow one from.

      So... opinions? What's the cost of buying a doll versus the cost of making one the same size? Which path carries the least risk, or the greatest opportunity? I value any advice, because really, I just want to make pretty things and not starve to death for my choice of vocation. Thanks bunches.
       
    2. I want to ask; have you successfully sculpted before? If you already are a doll artist, I would recommend sculpting your own doll, but if you havent sculpted figures or dolls before but want to start making one, you will come to find that its a very long and difficult process, and having an idea and executing it isnt as easy as it sounds. Its a lot more expensive and more time consuming than ordering a doll.

      I purchased a book that's very detailed and thorough on doll making (Yoshida style book 1 + 2 its japanese but you can get the idea with their step by step pictures) ; but after reading through it, not only will it take so much time, it needs basic sculpting talent and several trials to get one thing looking right, and this is with someone who has basic/above basic sculpting skills. Then comes the engineering, which is another annoying thing; making sure everything sits right, is able to rotate and move correctly + be able to be sturdy and stay in position when needed. Eye placement, eye wells... its a lot of work and not simple either.

      The most difficult is casting it. I thought Bisque and porcelain would be simpler than resin, but its not. Theres going to be mold making if you want to cast them. You can have your doll made of clay, but I dont think thats on topic and its going to be more fragile than resin cast dolls. Molding is a whole long process, and it needs to be redone every few castings (which isnt a lot because theres potentially going to be miscasts). Resin casting is even more finicky.

      Its going to cost you a lot of money for materials, and will take a lot of time. You should try it for the experience, but I would keep realistic expectations; and not recommend it if the goal is to make something cheaper than a ready made one.

      My advice if you cant borrow doll bodies; is to purchase bjd dress forms and then use them to sew clothes. You can also purchase duct tape forms of dolls you want to sew for that would be more precise and probably cheaper too.

      ()
       
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    3. I actually have those exact two Yoshida books, as well as ones by Robert McKinley. (BTW, I found an English translation for the first book, but does anyone know where I can find a translation for the second?) I have some sculpting experience, and I've sculpted legs for porcelain dolls as a template for making cloth parts to get the shape I want. (You know, like when only part of the doll is porcelain, and other parts that are meant to be hidden are stuffed fabirc. I find it easiest to make a pattern on a body rather than drafting it with math. Math just isn't organic enough for me.) But the BJD dress form doesn't sound like a bad idea. If I'd known that was a thing, I would have done that in the first place. Thanks! (Although I tried making a tape dress form for myself once, and the surface was too uneven to make it usable. Not sure how I feel about tape dress forms on an even smaller scale.)

      Buuut... I would still like to make my own dolls, even if I don't have to worry about it right away. What materials are recommended? It looks like 3D programs are best for symmetry, but I think I'd rather do it the traditional way. But I've seen people use paper clay, polymer clay, traditional clay, or a mix. Frankly, my brain is spinning with all the info.

      Also, where do I buy the dress forms? I've never seen them come up in my BJD searches.
       
      #3 ElizabethStiles, Dec 18, 2019
      Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
    4. If you're primarily interested in using a doll as a mannequin, and you own or have a friend who owns a 3D printer, you could 3D print an existing doll model, which would provide a low-cost entry point if you don't have money for a conventional doll. There are a few on Thingiverse, and you might be able to find some elsewhere, too. That said, I think there's a lot of joy in traditional BJDs as well. Price-wise: you can buy a 1/4 BJD from a lower cost company for 150$; two pounds of doll clay and a good set of sculpting tools will set you back 50$, plus additional money to buy elastic and S-hooks, and if you want it actually cast you can expect to spend quite a bit on that.

      If you decide you'd like to do traditional sculpture, you'll probably have the easiest time with a premade paper clay or hybrid paper/stone clay like La Doll (La Doll is a mix of paper and stone clay - paper fiber with lightweight ultrafine talc and pumice powder, which gives it a smoother finish than traditional paper clays). You can use polymer clay, but it has some distinct disadvantages in the world of doll sculpting - it's prone to minor warpage when baking, which isn't really a problem for conventional sculpture but can make doll joints fit badly; it also reacts badly with many forms of silicone, which can make casting hard if you eventually go that route, and it doesn't sand quite as badly. It used to be really hard to get anything else, but it's not hard in the age of Amazon, and it'll save you a lot of trouble (although waiting for it to dry can be annoying).

      For dress forms and mannequins, check Etsy - "BJD Mannequin" returns a decent chunk of results, and "Doll Mannequin" even more. You could also consider using a fashion doll as a dress checker; they're smaller than BJDs, but they're designed for dressing up.
       
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    5. Is your heart truly set on those more expensive dolls? There is the Dolls Under $300 list, unless they are still too much for you.
       
    6. I'm looking for a certain level of facial realism and accurate body proportions, so yes, unless there's something cheaper I haven't seen yet. I also need them to be larger so they're easier to sew for. I didn't know that there was such a list until you mentioned it, though, so I'll check that out.

      I did find a US dealer for Dollshe, which at least cuts down on the shipping, and not choosing the Honey skin cuts it down further. (The Honey skin seems to me to look nice unpainted, but all the photos I've seen with faceup look too waxy and artificial.) So I was ready to take the plunge, but then I found out their wait times can be extremely long. Then I discovered Impldoll Star Sicily, which is very pretty, and is cheaper, but doesn't suit my plans as well and the Dollshe Amanda, so now I'm back to not knowing what I want. Ha.
       
      #6 ElizabethStiles, Dec 23, 2019
      Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
    7. You said that you wanted a certain amount of realism, correct? I believe buying would be better and a lot easier than making for you. Making a realistic bjd takes a lot of time and materials, and I think that's a long twisty road you don't want to go down.
      Just my 5 cents! Correct me if I am wrong.
      :3nodding:
       
    8. I do want to go down that road, long and twisty though it may be, but I realized it would help to have a doll in my hands to analyze the joints and stringing before I start. I ended up purchasing Impldoll Sicily (which also came with a free extra head, so I chose Azalea), and because Dollshe wait times are so long anyway, I'm doing a 12-month layaway for Amanda Beauty. I have certain projects planned for each, so I hope to have Amanda by the time I finish Sicily's/Azalea's projects, at which point I can start on Amanda's projects. I can sell the things I make, and I can sell the dolls if I don't feel I can afford to keep them. And if I do it right, I may have the money in the end to make my own dolls.

      That's the plan. It may not work, but I get nowhere at all if I don't try.
       
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    9. Again, its ur choice!
      Best of luck!
       
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