Modification Armour for knight and horse - arms WIP

The first cushion is done and the mail attached to it:



Above this, the strips with the buckles would be attached. However, I decided to do the second cushion first to keep it even.

 

Now the chainmal is attached to both cushions (surprise!):



Sadly, I cannot show you this on-horse, as I am missing 2 hands for this (2 for holding up the cushions, 2 for the camera).

Now I have to do the straps and buckles. Then we will get a bit more serious...

 

Yeah, somewhat. Eight straps and 4 buckles to go...

 

Finally, I managed to sew all of the 4 straps to the cushions:





Now on to the next part. I think this will be the crinet. But before I cut and bang any metal, I have to do a good bit research and think about if/how this part was fixed to the chamfron and the saddle. Then I will make a cardboard mockup.

So this is also a rather slow affair...

 

Thanks!

For anybody who is interested, I am watching a very interesting video with Toby Capwell:

I took the decision to try to recreate the "Armour for horse and rider" from the Wallace Collection in London. Simply because you can find many pictures for reference of this set, and it is the style I am going for. It is key to find detail pictures of every part, as otherwise I cannot exactly reproduce it, and it is easier to find a configuration for the attachments.

It seems to me that the crupper plate was not simply one bell-shaped piece. It looks as if the horse wears a metal strip protecting its spine, and on the left and right plates were attached to this via buckled straps. I will try to find out whether that metal strip was actually in sections, mimicking the horse's spine...

Though I do not like the large gaps on the crupper plate of the Wallace colletction horse and rider team. I think I will replace it with this one:
Better Horse Barding - Skyrim Mod Requests - The Nexus Forums

Also Gothic style, but better coverage.

 

Thank you so much.

In the meantime, I managed to make the cardboard template for the crinet:

https://goo.gl/photos/2LXgUbdmm2HGeoJd9

https://goo.gl/photos/2S3MDJRQTSmMp4oX7

As I kept exactly to the proportions of the piece in the Wallace Collection, I got the same number of pieces as this has.

Now I have to figure out a way to make this flex in the right way. Bad thing is, I do not know exactly how it worked. I imagine as a horse's neck is flexible in all directions, and it uses its neck to keep balance, particulary during quick movments, the crinet has to give way (at least, that would be logical for me).

We will see...I think I will make some more experiments with cardboard before cutting any aluminium.

 

I don't know. A full horse barding is not used in current day jousting, so until now nobo

dy bothered to do research how this stuff actually worked.

In today's museums it seems as the pieces are somehow attached the horse. I am very suspicous of the straps you can see, because some of them do not really make sense.

Well, we will see how this goes.

Anyways, here is one lame made to metal:

https://goo.gl/photos/dZ4G5HZ4pJeWhF5BA

There are no holes yet, as the rivets I intend to use for this will hopefully arrive tomorrow. Then I have to see if I can use these and how bit I have to make the holes.

 

Hooray! In this text on the Wallace Collection, I found the answer to my question here: Wallace Collection Online - The Collection | Result

So I was right with my approach. Nice to know that all my efforts in my armor studies were worth something in the end...

 

Soo, a tiny bit more progress.

Today I cut and prepared another lame. Now the 2 are joined using 3 long leather strips, onto which all the others also have to be fixed. And I used fully unhistorical blind rivets. But they are the right size, and I have them at home (I am always happy having not to buy something).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/FP8fMa7jpvKk9De53

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hFPDuKmyOxdSS1rt2

It is indeed tempting to cut out everything now. But I do not think this would be a good idea as I could mount somthing in the wrong order.

 

That weekend, I managed to finished Alegria's crinet.

Detail of how it is fixed to the saddle:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DUGV8GAoGP7aMxdC2

What has been done until now metal-wise:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ENB5Xl5sdAT6AH243

To be continued with the chamfron...

 

A little progress could be made:



Here is proof, that I am not always successful at the first time. On the right, I wanted to do the fluting as usual, but the re-working did just look horrible. At my second try, with just hammering, it looks better IMO.

Also the rosette with the plastic horn is not finished yet, I hate the colour (although the can says aluminium). But I will create the second and third layer of the rosette first, then I will take another look at the colour.

Till later!

 

Strange, I can see it, Then let's try it like this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/LQiW5TPkJv5WVPRd2

Anyways, not update here, as we are stuck in the middle of my daughter's birthday celebration. So no time for metal banging.

 

The birthday is over, and here is the next bit of update: https://photos.app.goo.gl/GUs1uoPJb26Yu14X2

 

The front plate is done:

For whatever reason, there was a facelike shape embossed into the lower part of the chamfron. It looks like a demon face, as it is not particularly pretty. I looked at several Gothic chamfrons, most have something like that. So I gave in and put one mine.

This shows the preparation:



And here how it came out:



I decided that under this thing some cushion is necessary. Just imagine wearing a metal pot on your head, then somehow wacks it with a club. Yeah...most likely you will get a headache.

 

Long time no see...but I was completely lazy:



Sadly, I cannot put the piece together right now, as I ran out of rivets. Maybe I will also shorten the ears a bit.

 

Sooo...done:



Not 100%, but I can live with it.

 

A little progress. The first of the breast protection is done:

 

A little progress - but not for the horse, this is more suitable for his knight:







That's a leftover from my holiday. Now Raphael is wearing what a man wore in the 15th century as his underwear. The hosen and bruche were connected to a full pair of pants. The short was put into the pants in a very ...particular way. What he still needs before he gets some metal to wear is a pair of turnshoes and his arming jacket.

 

Thank you both!

Regarding the metalwork: while it is not bad, I am still not 100% happy. Particularly the Rosstirn is not quite right. It should bulge out more in the front, and the ears are too wide. I am also dreading the knight's greaves and elbows. The greaves habe a quite complex shape, as well as the elbows. Maybe I will take spme pieces of scrap aluminium and play a bit with heat shaping to get a better hang of this process.

 

Nothing new here...I am fighting with those turnshoes. I have real difficultisewong the correct parts together, as, being me, I could not choose a simple closing. No, it has to be fancy asymmetrical. Right now, I am undoing my first boot for the third time, and cutting the second upper leather.

Aaah...but one day, I will the d** thing right!

 

As today was a bank holiday, I took care a bit of Alegria's armor:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ff1M5LC0zg3RODxp1

It is again the fastening that bugs me. The way it is done in the Wallace Collection does not look right to me:

Visitor's pictures

I am okay with fixing it to the saddle on the sides. But the belt accross the neck? Even if we suppose the buckles at the sides are original, the angle the belt runs is highly impractical. In use, it would be broken soon (supposedly the horse moves and even gallops from time to time, his neck moves a lot as well). Moreover, the horse's chest can carry such a weight much easier, and the weight is spread more eve

However, the way I wanted to do it - attaching it to the front breastplate seems also wrong. It seems the whole construction needs to sit higher. I have to figure it out first, but I think I will omit the museum's solution.

 

Meanwhile, I managed to finish his boots



Otherwise, our knight looks a bit...wrapped:



As an arming jacket is supposed to fit the body as tightly as possible, I wanted to try this method. If it does not work, I can still use my usual paper towel...

 

Thank you so much! Regarding the arming doublet, I might make a test piece with stuffing to see if my pattern fits.

 

So here I have the lower half of the arming jacket (it looks really ugly like that:



Now I have to cut out its upper half, sew it together like a cushion, define the stuffing channels, and not forget to leave something to insert some wool.

And of course, it needs some kind of closure.

 

Yes, that is correct. That's why it will be made of two layers and lightly stuffed. After all, Sir Raphael will never really be hit by a lance, so it is sufficient if it looks the part.

 

Soo...here is our destrier with his front fully done:



But do not worry, his butt will also be properly protected. But it takes a bit of time.

 

I just wanted to inform you that this project is not dead.

However, I decided to put some cushioning under this breastplate. This was also done historically, and it makes it sit better.

Sadly, as I attached it, the rivets proved to be too short, and the leather strip which holds the piece detached from the aluminium. So I got some washers and am about remaking the strapping.

 

Don't worry, it is not too bad. From now on, I just have to use washers to back up the leather stripes. Though being stiff, the leather still gives after a while, and so the rivets come loose.

 

Now I am happy with how the chestplates sits:



As I am having back problems at the moment, I finished the vest part of the Gambeson:



I did this also because this garment really is supertight (Raphael must not put on any more weight, otherwise I will have to add something in the middle of the jacket), and I did not exactly now whether it would still fit with the padding (I added a bit of fabric, but it was a bit of gambling). But it fits exactly.

Now I will add some fixing points on the bottom, so that his pants can be stripped to it.They have a tendency to slide down.

Next is to add the arms, which will also have a little bit of padding. Generally, this garment is not as heavily padded like something worn under mail, or rather not padded at all. Basically, this is really just a jacket to fix your plate armour to. But I just wanted a little bit of protection for Raph.

 

The knight's underwear is done so far:


I think he will take a little break right now. I so want to do something else...regarding arming points: I will attach these later, when the corresponding armour parts are finished.

 

Right now, the knight and his horse are taking a winter break. As it became really awfully cold outside, I cannot shape the metal in a really controlled way. So I decided to start his "civilian" outfit, which you can follow here: /threads/a-really-really-cool-outfit-for-raphael.763184/

 

The weather is getting better, and I found a round-headed hammer in my dad's workshop. For whichever reason, this tool so common in USA is not available in any hardware store here in Germany. And you really need it to smooth metal armor properly. Now I can rework all of the horse armor. I am so happy! (Though it was not a happy reason which made me look at my dad's tools. Had to repair some stuff in my parent's house. My dad cannot do it any longer, as he passed away just two weeks ago. R.I.P.).

 

Teleri and @Changeling: Thank you two! It was honestly not that surprising, although I tried to ignore the signs and hoped it would take him a bit longer to leave this earth. But it was not meant to be...

Anyways, I really have again inspiration to continue with this project! Though I have really need to order again some buckles, as I ran out of them...30 buckles gone like nothing. Oh well...after all, the armour has to stay on somehow.

 

Yes. he is a hound. And I am very happy to have found that horse, the size to me looks fine. Friesians are normally about 1,60 m. If you imagine the man being 1,90 m tall the size looks fine to me. Of course, if you took a drafter of 2,00 m height, the look would be different. Friesians, like all baroque horses, are originally not that gigantic (I know they are sadly changing that nowadays), but they appear taller. Now I agree if I made that horse a warmblood like a Hanoverian the size would be a bit off.

Here you can see a gentleman of 1,83 m on a horse of 1,73 m (our Hubertus Schmidt on Escolar): http://dressage-news.com/2017/12/16...what-a-final-the-horse-magazine-at-frankfurt/

As you can see, his legs clearly do not fully cover the horse's body. Now imagine Escolar being even 10 cm shorter and Mr. Schmidt being 10 cm taller. Then you would get a very similar look to what we see in our model.