Antique Dolls?

I don't know very much about antique dolls but I would love to learn about them if you don't mind telling me a bit about them.
As for gaining interest, I think the best way to get someone interested in something is through presentation. A lot of people came to the bjd hobby by stumbling across pictures and finding more information. Because different things appeal to different people, you could try a variety of things. You could take and share pictures, write about the history, write about the detail, etc. Think about what you love about antique dolls and do something with that.
If it helps at all, I don't think the antique doll community will disappear. Sure they may be less possable, customizable, and may be a bit expensive, but they, like art dolls, probably weren't created to be posed in a tree doing finger guns. There will always be someone out there whose passion is antique dolls. Just think about how long they've been around, I doubt the community will just disappear now. (Especially with cool people like you!)
I'm sorry that this is so jumbled, I just wanted to get my thoughts down quickly

 

I have a few antique dolls in my collection. I think BJD collectors would like antique dolls,in a sense antique dolls are truly the first BJDs. These dolls were made using ball joints. I look at some of the sculpts out their and I know that they are based off of antique dolls. No one has given any credit to the antique dolls that they were inspired by. There are still some antique dolls that you can get for the same price of a BJD but the French dolls are still very expensive.

 

Woow I'm really interested, could you post some photos? And are there brands like in bjdolls or are they more like artist dolls? What a pity that a community is losing members (especially for leaving this world). Maybe posting amazing photos like a lot of bjd have on social media could make young people to become interested and start asking questions about them.

 

Check out social media sites like Facebook or Tumblr? There might be groups dedicated to the antique doll hobby as there are for bjds. I think there are even groups dedicated to haunted dolls. Apparently, people collect those, too. lol

 

I have about 5 reproduction antique not as expensive as the real one. My reason for not collecting as much ...breakage, I worried about breaking them and with resin I can handle. I like Asian bjd face sculpt more than the antique dolls also.

 

Yes, more people should collect antiques! Pristine examples and most french dolls are super expensive, but a lot of the German bisques are as articulated as modern BJD and prices have fallen for them so much! You can pick them up for around a hundred bucks on ebay, nice ones too.

I blame 'creepy doll' culture for the decline in interest and it sucks so bad. Theyre beautiful pieces of art. Most of my antique collection is china dolls, but I have a few of the articulated bisque headed ones.
I would love to learn more about restoring them. Its really hard to find info and resources for that online. Its feels like no one bothers with restorations much anymore because a broken doll loses so much value. I bet some artists in the bjd hobby could do wonders with restoring or even modifying an antique.


If anyone is interested in looking them up, heres some big names off the top of my head:
French dolls: Jumeau, Bru, Thullier, Steiner, Albert Marque
German dolls: Kestner, Armand Marsaille, Heubach, Simon Halbig

 

@~Suisei_Seki~ thanks for bringing up this topic! @Cydril is right, more people should collect antiques, or at least learn about them a bit, since they are in someways the great-grandmothers, or maybe great-grand-aunties of BJDs!

Along with Cydril's suggestions of makers to look up, ("French dolls: Jumeau, Bru, Thullier, Steiner, Albert Marque
German dolls: Kestner Armand Marsaille, Heubach, Simon Halbig") I would highly recommend looking up the French Fashion Doll type, one named maker is Huret. These dolls developed partly as models to show off the latest fashions. They are very popular these days with collectors. An original one in good shape from the 19th century can go for thousands of dollars. Often these dolls were given elaborate wardrobes of amazing clothes. And modern collectors like to create gorgeous outfits to add! And just as some people set up room settings for their BJDs, the French Fashions are often displayed in detailed settings.

There are artists making reproduction dolls with porcelains, but there are some doll makers out there who have turned to resin to recreate these dolls! Both types give modern owners opportunity work with them more closely than the fragile originals. Alice Leverett is one artist who has created her own resin version based on antique French Fashions. And Robert Tonner helped create a resin body that can be paired with an antique head! And another doll that has been reproduced in resin is Bleuette. (Ruby Red Galleria makes these.) Bleuette history is pretty fun. She started as a doll you could get if you subscribed to a magazine, and most issues then had patterns for clothes for the doll.


Can you tell I like antique dolls, and hope that other people will enjoy them too I have one repro French Fashion by Jean Nordquist, and I have been fiddling with making some clothes for her. The patterns I have are not exactly the correct size. But that's worked out, since my Bunny Nine Potpourri has made off with one of the "mistakes" and is wearing the jacket!

 

and now I will add the bit I meant to put in... @~Suisei_Seki~ I like the French Fashion in your avatar!

 

Antique dolls are amazing! My mom used to collect these, and she still has about 50 left in her collection. She collected mostly the German ones like Kestner and Simon and Halbig, as the French ones tend to be a lot more expensive. She also did a lot of doll repairs, and probably fueled my interest in modding in some way. She has one French Jumeau lady doll who is lovely, but most of her collection were more childlike in features ( like our SD10s). She also had a few tiny googly eyed dolls, which are so cute! I don't know a ton about these dolls, just info I gleaned from my mom on our many antique doll hunts. She learned a lot about them though during her years collecting them.
The ball jointed antiques are the true predecessors of our BJDs, but I think that many of the cheaper versions of these dolls were actually on kid leather bodies which were sometimes unjointed.
I only have one in my collection, a Kestner 154 with hairline crack, which is a very common mold and not worth much. She is on a kid leather body with neat jointed legs but unjointed arms. She is lovely however and a dear part of my doll family.
Sorry to ramble on . . .I am fond of these antique beauties although not an active collector. I have always been kind of sad my mom has not shown much interest in our contemporary BJDs, because she is so fun to talk to about dolls, but I guess everyone has their own passion.

 

I was really interested in antique dolls, until I was exposed to the local doll club. It was a bunch of highly opinionated elderly ladies who were all circling like vultures waiting for the others to die so they could raid the collection in an estate sale. They pretty much hated on any modern doll that wasn't a collector's edition Barbie and were really condescending to anyone under the age of 50.

So us young people made our own doll club. (With blackjack. And hookers.)

I'd still love to get a mid-to-late 19th century French fashion doll someday.
Until then, I'm content making historic dresses for my BJDs.

 

We meet up every month and bring dolls of all kinds (mostly BJD). It's a good crew.

 

@~Suisei_Seki~ , thanks! She is actually a Schoneau&Hoffmeister.
I think its more difficult for there to be a lot of online discussion about antique dolls since its more centered around preserving them as they were and having them on a shelf. BJD tend to be more interactive.

And I got some new Tumblrs to follow, woo!

 

Steampunk is perfect! What an awesome idea
A small part of me cringes at the thought of modding or actively playing with an antique doll, it feels like destroying history. But there are so many that are damaged or have already lost all their original accessories, so why not? Make them new again!
Itd be cool to see people do photoshoots fro them like we do for bjd too^^

 

@~Suisei_Seki~ I adore the idea of your steampunk adventurer! I have a little repro Bru, one of the mass market but decent repros from the 1990's that I have been wanted to make into a steampunk peddar doll. She was made with very wimpy wire loops in her thighs, and it snapped. I haven't decided to mod in a leg, or make her part of her cart!
I think the repro market presents some interesting potential for modders and collectors. There were mass market repros made at different times that there are enough of that fiddling with them won't destroy something rare. And then there were individually made repros, from the 1960's through to today that can either give you the feeling of an original but may be more accessible.

 

I have a couple of repros from charity shops. One is so well done I had a moment of excitement thinking I'd found an unmarked German antique. She's a dolly face, on a composition body that is falling apart (another reason I hoped!) Ah, well, repro or not, I love her.

And I have a repro Kestner Googly eyed doll that has a level of abstraction in her face that seems awfully modern. She could almost be in the same genre as Pukifee. She makes me smile every time I look at her ugly grinning face.

I find them charming--I have doll books where I gloat over the pictures--but my other half finds them quote, even creepier than bjds, unquote. She especially hates my Googly. So that's probably as far as my collection goes beyond Pinterest!

I need to make them clothes. That was the original content, to have something to use my doll clothes making book on.

 

I go to doll shows with my mom (and dad has started to go as well "to have something to do" ) and we often wonder what will happen to all the antique dolls when the older generation passes. A good majority of these dolls are in need of repair but it is fascinating to see the older ladies (some with husbands in tow) carefully inspecting and looking over them and when they find one that they actually buy, the joy on their faces is something that should be captured in pictures! I know that they are reliving some childhood memories at those times. I've only been to one show where the antique dolls were in such pristine condition that it really made me stop and look closely at them. Most I still find to be creepy but the costumes are rather elaborate and so well made.

 

I have a few now. I kind of fell into it by accident. From my grandmother I was given a 36" A.M. and after that I started looking into them.

 

Here is a great example of one of the elaborately jointed bodies I could never afford a doll like this though!
14" 1870's French Bru Poupee Peau Doll w/Fully Jointed Pin & Dowel Wooden Body | eBay

 

I used to collect antique bisque dolls years ago, but sold the few I had at one point in my life. They were just too expensive for the ones I wanted. Now I just collect pictures of them on Pinterest and admire them when I go to doll shows. I also made porcelain dolls and still have all the supplies to make them, but haven't made any in years. I quit making them when my kids came along.

 

I actually really like antique dolls, though I don't have a lot and I don't know technically what time period they are from. I have a few more dolls from the 60-70s.

My sister got me this one, I am not sure how old she. She as some glue residue on her head like she once wore a wig, though she also has molded hair.

I've waited here long enough... by ri, on Flickr

Links to a couple others: Untitled (definitely has seen better days but I couldn't leave her at the antique store), Miss Pugsley Piggles (perhaps 1930s? with a homemade dress).

 

I love antique dolls. They were my first love and made me mad about any doll who was ball jointed or multi jointed. BJD's were a dream come true!

 

I have a tiny porcelain doll (just the head and upper torso, for which I made my own body) that is from between 1890 and 1920 (I'm not great with porcelain doll molds, and this girl was apparently dig up in the back of a closed-down dollmaking factory in Germany--there are a couple of these sold on Etsy).

I didn't buy her for the rarity or price of her sculpt, I just liked it. She has tiny sculpted-in eyelids which make her look kind of sleepy. I think it's cute.

I'm making her a handsewn Regency corset and clothing, all in white, as she's white porcelain that's glazed, but either unpainted or the paint has come off. All she has for a face is the detail of the mold. I like it that way--a little creepy. Unfortunately, I can't show pictures of her until I move back for school.

I also have a newer china doll (made in the late 80s/90s--so not antique, exactly) who is kind of an engineering experiment. She's either the protagonist or the imaginary trapped woman in The Yellow Wallpaper, by Charlotte Perkins Gilman.

I've steered clear of doll groups and collectors which value the prestige or worth of a sculpt (over my type of having fun), and strongly discourage the removal of the doll from it's packaging (some Barbie collectors, etc.) or repainting/redressing/modding/hybriding (many antique doll collectors, Integrity/Fashion Royalty collectors, etc.).

I don't have much free time (and when I start school again this summer, I'll have even less), so actively working to fit into a hobby which is initially unwelcoming or merely not interested in my sort of hobby (I have actually spoken with my local antique doll collecting group) seems not worth the effort when there are so many groups which are immediately welcoming to my interests.

I'm not from an arts background (neither art history, so appreciative in the value of preserving old art [when it's not in a museum], nor art and design, so I do not feel I have the training to market myself as a repainter or OOAK/faceup artist), but rather science (which generally entails some super cool experiments, and some not so fun stuff).

I mod/hybrid/repaint/faceup/bodyblush my BJDs for fun and to destress. This type of crafting (and sewing--I also use sewing and reading for the same thing), is relaxing and fun for me. I think of myself as a hobbyist over a collector because my dolls aren't collected, they're enjoyed through modification and play.

I think some hobbies (action figures, BJDs, Pullips, Monster High, playline Barbie collecting) lend themselves more to this perspective or desire than others (Antique Dolls, limited or vintage Barbie, Breyer horse collecting kind of fits in both worlds).

Perhaps it has to do with generational disconnects in the purpose of dolls (as one of these groups tends to skew younger than the other), or perhaps it's differences in money or experience (as the people who do customize things such as antique dolls usually require expensive things like a kiln, porcelain, antique or reproduction doll molds, etc.).

I have no desire to go out with people to look at any sort of doll in a display case, but would totally meet with people to sew clothes, craft, repaint/faceup, or mod dolls. Sometimes it's the culture of the hobby, as much as the product around which the hobby centers around, which makes it more or less appealing.

I'm also not a fan of antique baby dolls (I prefer more mature sculpts, and I really do not like sculpts that look like children in the face but have a mature body, which seems to be the case which many of the antique dolls that I have seen). I do not like the old antique doll molds with open eyewells (the eyes are too close together, and the eyewells too thick--it creeps me out). I also do not like traditional antique doll painting styles (with the parenthesis-shaped eyebrows, circular cheek blushing, and pouty lips with buck teeth like American Girl dolls).

If I purchased such a doll, I would be looking at modding the eyewells to be deeper and the eyes to sit further apart, cutting off the lips and resculpting the mouth, and redoing the face painting. All on a doll where the unfired porcelain reproduction pieces (not a put together doll and not with supplies to make the body) can be sold for a couple hundred dollars. If that were a BJD my answer would be "hells no," so with antique dolls it's the same. And that doesn't even consider the fact that porcelain takes to a Dremel poorly compared to resin. The head would probably break when I modded it.

So another reason is I'm very picky, and I've only found a "yes" porcelain doll twice.

 

Another thread here reminded me that I forgot to post my two (very non-limited) porcelain dolls when I was with them again.

Here's my ghost girl (sans dress--Where on earth is it?!?)


And my (currently unassembled) Yellow Wallpaper girl (I think she was supposed to be Juliet; not technically antique):

 

I've got some old dolls- I wouldn't say antique, but my grandmother and aunt have been collectors for a long time. Occasionally I go to visit and come home with a treasure or two. A lot of these dolls are from my childhood.

I will post my pics as spoilers so this post doesn't get too pic heavy!

Spoiler

Bleuette by Leigh, on Flickr

Spoiler

Bleuette by Leigh, on Flickr

Spoiler

Elizabeth by Leigh, on Flickr

Spoiler

Elizabeth by Leigh, on Flickr

Spoiler

Bisque by Leigh, on Flickr

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Bisque by Leigh, on Flickr

Spoiler

Mini Francis by Leigh, on Flickr

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Mini Francis by Leigh, on Flickr

Spoiler

Mini Francis by Leigh, on Flickr

 

Resurrecting this thread if that's okay?
I've inherited some nearly 100 year old Composition dolls that belonged to my Grandmother and her sisters. I was curious to see if anyone else is into vintage/antique dolls. I've fallen in love witht he Madam Alexander Wendy Ann size dolls. They're about large 1/6 or small 1/4 scale. 14 inches tall. And they're strung with elastics and s-hooks! I am learning a lot to be able to restore some of these dolls I've got. None are very valuable in the monetary sense but I will probably keep most of them anyway.

 

I am interested but not in collecting them more like learning about them and not only antique victorian but as long as history goes , regency , barioque till the ancient times . If I was really rich I would have a room asigned for those and order a reproduction copy of a doll of each era from the ancient relics ones found in Greece and Rome and other part of the world to middle ages , tudor , a copy of the famous Pandora and lord and lady Clapham , regency wooden Grödnertal style ones and papier mache ones , and of cource collect the bisque and porcelain victorian cuties Jumeau , Kestner , Lambert ,Marseille , Heubach ,Simon&Halbig , Kammer&Reinhart there are too many brand in the victorian/edwardian times cause it was then dolls became essencially a mass produced product . So yes I am interested but more in academic way , I would also love to work in a doll/toy museum doesn't matter the type of work as long as I get be inside the building lol. But the reality is there is no such thing as toy museum were I live and I have a small house and no money for any of this but I still love to read and learn about dolls and toys in whole human history (ways of production, materials uses , styling perceptions , social implications etc) and of course see pics.
In my browsing I found out these artists who make replicas of wooden Regency dolls, they make them as faithful as it gets, I fell in love but I certainly can't afford any but they are amazing and I thought to add a link of them in my post
The Doll Carvers

 

Would love to see your Composition dolls! I have found myself looking more and more at these types of dolls. I also love the Wendy Ann size dolls.

 

@Agnes-Agatha Oh wow! I have similar interest with dolls from all eras, especially pre-modern ones. It's a tie all through human history- we love to make little figures of ourselves and imagine things with them.

Thanks! They hold a sort of charm to me that later plastic vintage dolls just don't have, especially the little girl/lady types (as opposed to the baby dolls, which are just not as exciting to me personally even though theyre nice dolls). Maybe it's the more handmade touches.

This is one of the Wendy Ann dolls I'll be restoring- her name is Carol. She looks skeptical of my abilities, LOL.

 

Oh, I like her. Will you try and save her hair or just opt for a new wig altogether? She's in much better condition than most of the composition dolls I have found. And I like dolls with the side glancing eyes

 

Yes it is so fascinating and I think toys are very big aspect of any culture , here is a little treat a virtual museum : Museum of ancient toys ,
and the main page Greek toys English

I so much love your Wendy Ann Carol she is a cutie!!!! Can't wait to see her restored!!!!

 

I like seeing them and I think the doll museums are wonderful but my days of collecting old porcelains are done mainly because of the extra work it takes to maintain them.

Unless they are always in a case the materials used for those very old dolls tend to attract vermin. I had the worst time with bugs and my collection of porcelain girls. I loved them but I was constantly fighting infestations of moths, carpet and wood beetles and bugs like roaches because they all just love what antique dolls are made of.

I took off a girl's dress to change it once only to find she had beetles in her body in the stuffing and roach eggs in her dress at the waist. She'd been boxed and put away in storage but apparently that place wasn't very secure from bugs.

I looked and sure enough all of them were like that to one degree or another and here I thought I was keeping them safe and dry and away from bugs..

Apparently not...

If you have air tight cases and room to keep them up they're beautiful. But if you don't they will decay and get bugs. It's just easier with vinyl and resin dolls and acrylic wigs. Something might get into an outfit and it will need washing but it's just not on the level that very old dolls do. It's very manageable.

I love the artistry that went into very old dolls but I almost think of them as museum only pieces because they do take more work to keep up and they can be so much more easily destroyed than a vinyl or resin doll.

 

Vinyl not that much... I had a nasty accident recently with Barbies almost degrading the plastic of some Ellowyne's, one should be careful with humidity and heat because vintage Barbies get gluey and degrade and mh/eah etc can get super yellow super easily with heat and humidity combined. Resin is far more resilient if one can keep them out of sunlight the best of the best is treated wood sculpted dolls but those would cost a small fortune.

 

@magkelly Goodness! How awful for you! *shudder*
I'll have to be sure to take care on that point! I have a very climate controlled house- that is, only 35% humidity, which discourages most bugs, and I do intend to keep my composition dolls in some glass fronted closed cabinets, with pest control measures. It's too dry here for most types of roach, for instance, but I'll still take precautions just in case! These dolls are all very old and pretty mothbitten, but there's no sign of other pest activity thank goodness. Each of them is getting very thoroughly cleaned, especially their clothes and hair. I do know how much critters LOVE hide glue.

 

A friend, who is downsizing, gave me her childhood doll. A Vogue doll Ginny from the 1950s.
20240714_175805 by SteamWitch, on Flickr

 

Aw she's cute. Ginny is a real classic doll of 20th century history.

 

I love antique dolls! My mom raised me around shows and collecting. In the 80's I fell in love with artist dolls and boudoir dolls from the 20's & 30's. I have wanted to make dolls ever since, and that is what led me to BJDs - the ability to completely customize them. Designing, planning, and putting your own BJD together is the next best thing to making your own original doll. It's addictive! I still love all kinds of other dolls though old and new.

 

I also love antique dolls! I'd love to learn to properly restore them, someday. I hate when I see a poor, neglected doll with broken bits. I get it, you were well-loved, but you still have so much life in your, and you deserve to look pretty!

Anyway, I think I should get out some of my old dolls and do some photoshoots now.

 

I found an artist guild made replica at a doll show, who is well old enough to be called vintage herself, and she's satisfied my want to have an old timey doll to dress without as much of the responsibility.

I also made my own fake porcelain head-hands-feet on a cloth body lady with the same air dry clay one uses to make DIY BJDs by copying the dimensions in a soft doll and clothes pattern book.

 

A friend gave her childhood (1950) doll to me. I cleaned her up and she is keeping a place on the shelf warm. She is a Ginny.
20240714_175805 by SteamWitch, on Flickr

 

My great-grandmother had a beautiful doll. Unfortunately, when my great-grandmother died, her relatives threw the doll away. I didn't get to keep it. I still regret it to this day. I wanted to have a keepsake, but unfortunately I couldn't.